I think not much will work for him because he just doesn't care and wants money over fixing anything so I think if we all stop buying from him that will hurt him more then anything else ,when he sees not as much money come in he might think hey I might have too fix this never know

Whatever potential issues he may have, his ability to never listen nor answer to any issue and pointing out everything else but him is not something professional nor respectful for people who gave him money. At least if he could provide a minimum of customer service and comprehensive behavior but no we are far from that.
The better than nothing might end with the promissing Buthamburg company. Things could change in the future: if they could manage to provide good customer service, it could be the end of the drama with him.

He's not new, he's expanding. His PFs in the past have been amazing - I sold one to Ron (Kruzman) in exchange for a clearcoat job, and he was even impressed by the quality and workmanship.

After serious art issues with CPR and Mirco, orrfered his artwork up to a couple of is to verify that it was indeed correct. And AFAIK, none of us proofers found anything wrong.

He's the bomb, and I'm excited as all f*ck that he's increasing his production.

Yeah Ive swapped in their Getaway and No Good Gofers and love their clear coat quality. Here is to hoping they get all the Williams/Bally licenses they can handle.

I don't think that is correct.
I've never heard of an oil based clear.

The argument is he uses low VOC, perhaps water based clear... but no one knows for sure.

I saw this on a guy in Bristols FT about 4 years ago that he fitted, terrible. Waste of money and time, how can this still be happening?
Make him pay!!!

Theres 2 problems with this argument:
1. He doesn't believe there is any problems with his products at all and has stated that on multiple occasions
2. Even if he thought there was a problem, and everything you said was true, thats too bad. It doesn't give him the greenlight to sell poor products to the public.

That is a Greatwich product. Guaranteed to yellow no more than the snow after drinking a good 12 pack…

Wrong. I used Waterbourne Varethane Interior Gloss for 15 years. Never had a problem using it to seal the wood with 2 spray coats before uv inkjet printing from the start with numerous direct ink restorations. I was one of the pioneers pushing the envelope for this technology & took years of crap from experts that believed solely on screen printing. Over the 15 years about 400 playfields were done by myself, & the help of contractors. Numerous different finish clear coat contractors used, & bunch done by a former CPR contractor. Over all the playfields done by Great Pinball, zero failed for pooling or delamination. No robots used in the production for inserts or sealing or clearing of playfields. I might still re-enter the market as part of a new team that has financial backing which I lack. Lots of areas of playfield production still need to be met.
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/varathane-premium-diamond-wood-finish-for-interior-water-based-in-semi-gloss-clear-236-ml/1000111887

I completely understand why some would be frustrated with the guy as he seems like a complete tool. I've never purchased a new play field from the guy, but I have owned all the JJP games. On those games some have been very nice (Hobbit, DI, GNR), and others have been not so great (Wonka, POTC). That being said what are the alternatives? If the guy had real competition then he would probably change his business practices.

You're using it for a base layer, not for the final clearcoat though, correct? Also you should quit saying they were done by you with the help of contractors and say they were done by contractors with some help from you

Yes as a sealer, not the finish clear coats which were auto clear. Auto clear was either solvent or water based over the 15 years. The bulk of the work was done by myself. CNC, Printing, & Finish Clear was contracted out. The playfields were my products for Star Gazer & Seawitch, not a project done solely by a contactor. Mirco likely does all the production in house along with some others, & there are some of us that need to contract out work.
I have always been open about my production, & what is used or done over the years. Hope it helps out anyone interested, or not.

Yeah I would not be too worried about it yellowing as a base coat. As a top coat, it absolutely will.

There would be plenty of competition and high quality $600 playfields if this were not a licensed product.

This is the licensors fault as much as it is Mirco’s.

The classic Stern playfields are not licensed to my knowledge.

Being limited to unlicensed playfields would make it very difficult to pay for the investment in equipment and justify the time required to do small runs of playfields.

Not sure I buy this. Exactly what do you think that investment is?
A CNC router is relatively inexpensive now.
A Belt sander?
A UV flat bed Printer?
A clear coat setup?

Offset most of that with a seperate cabinet business; where are you with costs?

Now imagine if you bought all of this from the DeepRoot liquidation...

I don't think anything was reasonable at the liquidation. I mean, maybe it was... But not my idea of reasonable cause I'm a cheap skate

All one needs to do is look at CPR - the learning curve is all laid out for you.

Time...
Space...
Insert inventory...
Wood investment...
Sitting on inventory...
Expensive shipping, insurance, and return overhead...

All that's on top of just the capital investment in the tools of the trade. It's a low volume, high cost, high labor market. Not one someone who really believes making money is important would jump at the opportunity for.

Nearly all the players in the space do other things too... not a coincidence.

One month of play on this Mirco playfield at PHoF. A clear cover was added to stop the damage from spreading.

698779270 (resized).jpg

Ouch, that's horrible!

That is completely insane. A lot of people play those games but I’ve never seen anything like that.

Obviously, the problem was caused by the owner...

My guess is the inventory costs are a deal killer. It costs a lot to store unsold stock. There’s a Gottlieb playfield maker that charges about $750 but he only does presold runs of about 30 at a time.

That’s terrible.
Did you contact Mirco and if so what was the response?

I would guess like he says with everything it's with in reason or spec lol

That's heartbreaking.

I'm curious, do any of Mirco's playfields hold up, or are they all just a ticking time bomb?

I really think they all have something and other have a lot more ether way just not good at all will never ever buy again it's just grap in my eyes your better off with your old one

HOLY CRAP

Does whatever payment method you used offer any type of protection? I’d be charging this back as a defective product.

Mirco will never get my business.

Same here

He doesn't care as he has more then enough work at this point. Hopefully once Buthamburg gets up to speed they'll take accounts like JJP away from Mirco and then maybe he'll care.

Until there is a push back that hurts the mirco wallet why would anything change? Manufacturers are still using mirco and pinball collectors get stuck dealing with it.

What has occurred here is terrible and certainly not fair to those experiencing the issue of failed clear without recourse.

I purchased two playfields that were done by Mirco not directly but from fellow Pinsiders. One a TZ and the other a STTNG both I believe were early runs from before he changed his process. Any one have issues with either of these titles?

I'm assuming there is a percent of fail rate here and it must be low enough that he has (unfortunately) calculated that its expectable.

Some playfield manufacturers are ramping up their production & facilities. Pinball manufacturing continues to grow with more companies getting into the pool. Mirco will have no problem with lack of demand by companies or consumers. He has the robots & machinery as a big player. Is his product & customer service the best. The answer is no at times. But it is not likely any worse than any other playfield manufacturer having problems at times. My best guess is 1% - 3% of playfields having serious problems with pooling, ink adhesion, or finish clear problems. Could be higher but we will likely never know.

Are you missing text on the door on twilight zone?

I agree something changed with his process re: clearcoat or maybe prep of the PF blank. The AFM I got from him years ago is fine installed in the game since 2012. The TZ PF I got from him hasn't been installed yet have to decide what to do about the missing door text. If it was all missing I'd be more OK with it but it's 1/2 the text. Also it was the pink variant which I didn't know about when I'd ordered it, my game has the red one in it. The clear is fine on that one as well but of course it hasn't been installed, just kicking around the game room.

I have a few that are nice. I have a taxi and diner that are doing great. But then again not sure when they were made.

I have installed many that were problem free also I always reclear prior to use due to insert settlement etc.
It’s definitely not always bad anymore than it’s always good.
I have a feeling he is working on it and problems are not apparent until time reveals them.
Coatings are like that. Can be very hard to diagnose and solve.

watch out, no matter who you are speaking out against the witch hunt can get you in trouble here.

I have a feeling Chris doesn't care about or entertain any of that. He just shares his experience regardless.

I know who he is, that's why I said "no matter who you are". I have stuff of his.

What "witch hunt" do you think HEP's in danger of? You think people that are pissed at Mirco for selling defective playfields are going to be upset with HEP for saying that some of his playfields have been OK? Doesn't seem like much to worry about.

I have a Micro Quicksilver playfield, early run. It’s beautiful and lucky to have no issues so far. It does have the key lines missing from the rollover inserts and the missing hole for the wiring to the ball return kicker.

I have a Mirco Quicksilver pf in mine as well… but it has been Ron Kruzman re-cleared, so it looks and plays great but I am also not worried about issues with it. That peace of mind was worth it to me.

The Diner PF was a CPR….

> Mirco makes products under license from Planetary [PPS].

> A trademark licensor can be held liable for defective goods produced by their licensees.

> Therefore, PPS shares in the responsibility for damages caused by products on which their trademark appears.

> PPS bares liability even though they are not the manufacturer or the retailer.

> All entities that take part in production or marketing are strictly liable for any injuries resulting from such entity placing a defective good in the stream of commerce.

> This reasoning is based on an always-moving cost-benefit analysis that holds entities which benefit from the sale of defective products are responsible for the costs.

> The Lanham Act permits a trademark owner to license its trademark to a licensee that is a related company.

> The act defines a related company as "any person whose use of a mark is controlled by the owner of the mark with respect to the nature and quality of the goods or services on or in connection with which the mark is used."

> Under the Lanham Act, a trademark licensor [PPS] cannot be completely uninvolved in the manufacturing or they risk forfeiture of the mark.

> If PPS declares they have “nothing to do with the goods” other than placing their trademark on the products then they have failed to exercise the mandated control over nature or quality.

(See Lanham Act § 45, 15 U.S.C. § 1127)