I wont be a victim. Money is staying in my pocket

I second this quote, they take our money then victimize us

Actually the proper phrase is we give them money to be victimized.
Armed robbery doesn't require consent
If you willingly buy their product, you are consenting to being their victim

Is this Pinside or an episode of Inside the Playboy Mansion?

What does that even mean, ive proven my self to stand tall in person. The whole pinball thing is pretty much screw me once shame on you screw me twice shame on me, there wont be a twice for me. Enjoy spending your money on toy story, i wont be spending any of mine. I have my collection right where i want it, glad i bought when dmd games were 800-1000.

It means nothing.
Anything he even remotely construes as an attack against JJP will elicit a response, some more coherent than others.

His response in person was there’s no problems hes aware of, he didnt want to discuss JJP or any other playfield problems Because he wasnt aware of any,and if there is a problem just email him he will take care of said problem.

There is no pooling, the clear isn't flowing to a low spot. There is an issue with art separating from the substrate. The clear is well bonded to the art. That is why they come off together. The clear is being moved by pressure from the posts. Over poorly bonded art this creates the waves. Over "bare" wood the bond is fine and there is no movement.

massive balls, heck massive balls to even have a booth there

because folks in this hobby are idiots for the most part

and most of those idiots blame the clear for the lack of art bonding.

Well put!!

Nah. This is what happens when the people making the defective parts put their head in the sand and ignore the issues. No amount of constructive criticism or feedback in this thread (there has been some, albeit understandably outweighed by the complaints) is going to change their mind, so JJP and Mirco deserve to be constantly shamed and badmouthed for their horrible handling of this.

How does one be constructive with a person that claims hes not aware of any problems, And he wont talk about any problems. Buy his products and see if you get satisfaction, donate your playfields and plastics and see if you get them back. Of course if you live somewhere near him where the laws have consequences for him you’ll be perfectly satisfied im sure. Seems most of the people getting the short end are in the usa

Completely not saying this should be ignored nor forgotten. Just think there’s a better way to accomplish end goals like Tantrum stated. There must be someone on this thread within the legal realm that might have some insight on our stance. Also like previously stated, we need to speak loudly with our financial contributions (or the lack there of!!)

So far JJP will sell you a new playfield if your unhappy, or Mirco blames JJP for not following product direction of use. Mirco still cant explain away all the other defective playfields ges sold, also telling someone you’re borrowing their possessions and then keeping is theft. The only constructive thing that can be done is too not buy it, pinball collectors are junkies, myself included. I think the shitty economy thats coming will most likely end it for the JJP beancounters. Alot of people have claimed they wont by JJP AGAIN lets see if it has an effect when toy story drops.

I bet for every one person who won't buy... There are 5 that will because... Reasons.
It's sad really

This is why nothing will change. They know that the only options are "buy from someone else" (which can't happen) or "don't buy at all" (which won't happen).

Until JJP and/or Mirco is afraid one of these things can/will happen, they will just continue on.

I know. but here's a story which really won't matter to anyone.

TPF had at least 3 GNRs ... I refused to play it; because, while I'd love to own an GNR (like the band) - I never will because I won't support JJP and Mirco.
Ahat had his Totan 2.0 in his booth. I refused to even stop at his booth because of his treatment of customers. I didn't heckle him because - well; I don't have a dog in the race and the Last thing I wanted was to start something that would get me banned from TPF.

This past weekend; I went to Cactus Jacks in OKC. They had 59 awesome games there including GNR.
I refused to drop a dollar (assume it was set for 3balls for a $1) on the game because I won't support JJP and Mirco. Probably makes bank; but not my dollar. My friend and I played all the other machines and blew 10each over a couple of hours. I think they had dialed in ... but wouldn't play it either for the same reason.

Will any of this matter; nope. But that's what I'm doing.

Will good for you!!!

I know of at least 10 collectors here locally that wont buy JJP or Mirco anything, mostly because of the way i got treated by them, one friend had dialed inn and it constantly had problems, another friend had GNRLE his had pooling but that was it, not terrible, my game was missing art and was down to the wood, had i been offered any help by JJP in dec 2020, instead of march 2021 my playfield probably wouldn’t have been as bad, instead they chose to string me along and pretend they were going to make good, then came the no playfields only washers or buyback(absurd). I was in PM corresponding with many other pinsiders that were also being strung along, even though i was being told no playfields for anyone, they were being told a decision was still in the hands of upper management, I believe they did this to prevent people from charging back on their CC. Im sure toy story will be bought by many before its even known how good it is, but the Poor treatment of JJP has left a bad taste for many potential buyers, I believe there are many like me and i think its definitely going to affect their bottom line.

That sounds like a very Jack thing to do.
I wouldn't be surprised if true.

I was going to buy a NIB GNR and after seeing this, it deterred me from doing so. I'm not sure if I will buy any NIB games from JJP until these problems are addressed.

I feel like the GnR machines made after around Aug of 2021 have been rock solid. Zero problems with the one I have from Sept 2021, and I haven't heard of any machines after that date with the kinds of issues that were widespread from 2020 until that point. As long as your build is this year, you're probably fine with a NIB.

Servos for the spotlights dying are the only ongoing issue, and I don't think that will be solved. Consider them a consumable and call it good.

We always seem to go round and round on this thing...

Step 1) Someone says the (new) playfields are bad.
Step 2) Someone posts pictures of (new) bad playfields.
Step 3) People rant and rave about playfields still being bad.
Step 4) Someone says the newest playfields are fixed now.
Step 5) Go to step 1.

I'm dizzy from this merry-go-round and I don't even own a JJP machine.

I literally haven't seen any playfield problems posted for like 8 months on new GnR builds made after Aug/Sept 2021. Nothing. And even if it was one or two posts I somehow missed, that's less than the non-stop flow if complaints and pictures from the first year machines. There's been a dramatic dropoff with GnR PF issues.

But do these have washers possibly covering up the problem areas. If so they haven’t fixed the issues just hiding them.

Haven't seen any pooling posts on the newer builds post Aug-Sept 2021, either. Washers wouldn't solve that completely, so those complaints have dropped off a cliff, too. If nothing else, JJP appears to be getting some control over the problem.

Mirco is still a complete loser, though. His attitude will be his downfall.

it might just be me but I have noticed that once a certain podcaster disappeared so did many of the complaints about jjp and Spooky.

not saying the issues went away but there also isn't a guy fanning the flames for clicks.

Doesn't really matter to me if the PF issues are fixed...
Neither company has a record of being open, direct, and respectful of their customers.
They don't treat them well.

Even *IF* Mirco and JJP changed their ways OVERNIGHT, by magic... they still need to demonstrate a proven track record for several titles of no PF defects. They'd also need to return their warranties back to include the PF. They'd need to get control of their outrageous pricing.

These are the MINIMUM changes that are needed for *ME* to even consider a JJP / mirco title.

The sad part is i really wanted a Toy Story. Love the movies and think the pinball will be great. But after everything i went thru w/ my GNRCE, i can not and will not buy NIB from JJP until Mirco is gone. I may buy a used one if all is good but no new money from me. I really wanted to continue to support JJP but i just can't.

Didn’t JJP change their warranty so they didn’t have to deal with any of these issues?

Problem solved with the stroke of a pen.

What else do you need to know about a company?

I have seen a more recent GNRLE Playfield that looked much different than the one that came in my game, i think the complaints are gone because sales are done, you can get a new gnrle at all of the distributors, with the shortage of machines thats the only one they have in stock right now.

How did the new GnR you saw looked different then the one you received?

some lawyer is / would tell them not even to say you changed the process as that could be used against you that you knew the old process was defective.

They might not have much to worry about on that front -- despite all the hot talk here pinball owners don't seem to sue very often.

There were a few cases since August, but all of them were either at posts that were tilting because the stock rubbers are too tight, or when a post was too loose.

So the playfields seem to be holding up better when everything is set up perfectly (and not using stock bands).

I’m still not sure if I trust Mirco enough to bet that he won’t relapse and we could see a wave of problems with new playfields.

Oh, this isn't a wider endorsement of Mirco. I think he's still broken and completely untrustworthy. He's EARNED that, and it will be very hard to repair.

In this case, I'm just specifically talking about the GnR made in the last 8 months or so. That's it. Mirco should still not be trusted.

Never forget...

Someone should make a hundred tote bags or T-shirts to hand out at the next pinball event, with the words “Ask me about my defective Mirco playfield”

I once had a video projector fail on me a few weeks after the 1 year warranty and the tech support guy admitted they had gotten a bad batch of boards, but wouldn’t replace mine for less than $500. I made a website and registered the domain “(nameofcompany)sellsdefectiveprojectors.com” showing the issues me and other people were posting about, and emailed it to their executives. The next morning I had a message on my machine, and they offered to fix it for free. I told them no way and demanded not only a new projector, but the updated model, which they sent me.

Sadly it cost the purchase of a game for me from JJP. Hope things in the future change as I would like to own one of his games someday...