(Topic ID: 235050)

Mirco - Exclusive Classic Stern Parts Manufacture? Bogus Legal Threats!


By greatwichjohn

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 211 posts
  • 82 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by CraigC
  • Topic is favorited by 35 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 12 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    booting (resized).jpg
    apology (resized).jpg
    review-19 (resized).jpg
    1caec34e529cbc45597ec7106de45eb21595197e (resized).jpeg
    wXCfyPt (resized).png
    lies (resized).jpg
    20190201_113529 (resized).jpg
    IMG_0002 (resized).JPG
    IMG_0001 (resized).JPG
    980x (resized).jpg
    IMG_0060 (resized).JPG
    IMG_0009 (resized).JPG

    This topic is closed.

    There are 211 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 10 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    please provide the proof of your claim to have exclusive rights to all stern art/products
    That is the only thing that will help you at this point... To prove that you actually even had the weight behind your bullying. It wont excuse your lack of tact, but it would at least prove you are correct in your position.

    He apologized, you are now beating a dead horse. His pants were down and he was caught. Nothing more to see here. We all know he has no agreement to provide.

    #152 10 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    Hi All,
    my apologies for any trouble I have caused. It was not my intention to start something like this and to be honest I did not know much about John's background before. Of course I'm not interested that someone looses their money, for example the prepayments which were made. I think there are enough people out there who are harmed by lost prepayments...
    Nevertheless it is not ok to produce parts with violationg copyrights. We have seen that on cabinet art before as well. I think it is easy to understand that I'm interested to have equal start positions for anybody. I try to do it right and get permission and pay royalties per item. If a 3rd party is involved I get their permission as well as any upcoming lawsuit would get really expensive. I would not want to see Disney or Universal for example showing up and fight for their royalty. As a company it is your turn to make sure you do it right.
    Any lawyer cost extra money. In my opinion this is not the best option, especially for small businesses. Thatwhy I reached out direct without using any lawyer right away.
    No matter what happened it is not allowed to publish any private massages without permission.
    Aynway I will not take any action right now and let it go.
    Regarding any double effort for some playfields - I'm open for any suggestions, Kevin has my contact info - we can talk and see how we might come together...
    Regards,
    Mirco

    Still blows me away the stuff that was said in his email. Sounded like he had guns ready to bring me down in a court of law. Said his lawyer was gathering info & he was telling me to shutdown my business on Thursday. Post everywhere that I was no longer producing classic Stern parts. Never done cabinet art ever. Why Mirco can not give a real apology blows me away here, & post HIS threatening email. Be done with it once and for all.
    I find it extremely funny he says he did not know my pinball background. Many pictures over the years of Sorcerer playfields being restored by me. If he wanted to show CPR that he is truly sorry he would drop that title for Sorcerer product. I am sure Rick would be ok with only one vendor since total sales would likely be the same.

    #153 10 months ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    He apologized, you are now beating a dead horse. His pants were down and he was caught. Nothing more to see here. We all know he has no agreement to provide.

    Apologizing for getting caught is one thing. Explaining why he threatened lawyers and what real contract he has with stern is another. His apology isn’t even half assed it is like quarter assed!

    #154 10 months ago

    I am pretty sure he's lost quite a fair bit of business over this silly mistake so that's probably punishment enough?

    I in no way agree with what he did btw! but certainly did not get off free! (karma and all that )

    #155 10 months ago

    Why would anyone want to do business with someone so morally bankrupt is beyond my comprehension. Businesses like this need to exposed so us (the buying public) can make an informed decision to take our business elsewhere. I am glad this was exposed for all of us to see.

    #156 10 months ago
    Quoted from ausretrogamer:

    Why would anyone want to do business with someone so morally bankrupt is beyond my comprehension. Businesses like this need to exposed so us (the buying public) can make an informed decision to take our business elsewhere. I am glad this was exposed for all of us to see.

    100% correct, but in reality just a few people who read pinside probably know about this mess. Will it just be forgotten about in a few weeks? Or does most of his business come from here??

    #157 10 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    100% correct, but in reality just a few people who read pinside probably know about this mess. Will it just be forgotten about in a few weeks? Or does most of his business come from here??

    I’ll certainty will be spreading the word amongst my pinball friends in Aus. I’ll have this thread saved in my favourites for easy access to show them.

    #158 10 months ago

    There I corrected the post header. No proof he has exclusive rights from Gary Stern to be the only manufacturer of Classic Stern era playfields, plastics, & backglass. He gave a half ass apology, thanks a lot. Has lots of excuses about not knowing me, or what I have been doing for years.

    After he threatened me with legal action & I posted his exact pm email. He was quick to have it removed. Now he is in damage control. Maybe he will think again before threatening legal action!

    #159 10 months ago

    Updated the title post which I will leave up, along with a brief reason for people wondering the moderation of pm. Mirco has gone silent here, & I will never get a proper apology. He will likely never post his pm, with legal threats, demands, & showing any Gary Stern license agreement. Anyone late to the game can check out CPR Sorcerer thread where Mirco was caught.

    #160 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I will never get a proper apology.

    IF he is a real man, he will certainly publicly admit his lies, and publicly apologize to you for trying to close down your livelihood.

    Don't give up hope yet.

    #161 10 months ago
    Quoted from lancestorm:

    Apologizing for getting caught is one thing. Explaining why he threatened lawyers and what real contract he has with stern is another. His apology isn’t even half assed it is like quarter assed!

    Mirco owes that to greatwichjohn, not any of us.

    #162 10 months ago

    Well as you can see Mirco is hiding in shame. Be a man & post up your pm. People would shake their head at the shit he said in the pm, & threats. When I talk with Gary Stern I will let him know. If not I will bring it up at TPF.

    #163 10 months ago

    It seems point has been made.

    #164 10 months ago

    I think not. Sent a email to Jack. Everyone should take notice of the extreme measures Mirco will take.

    #165 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I think not. Sent a email to Jack. Everyone should take notice of the extreme measures Mirco will take.

    I agree, I’m keeping this thread favorited until a resolution.

    #166 10 months ago

    at tpf I just might have to spill my soda at their booth.

    #167 10 months ago
    Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

    at tpf I just might have to spill my soda at their booth.

    be careful you might get the threat of being sued! (by pm the next day with no evidence)

    -9
    #168 10 months ago

    This is a free country and you can buy whatever you want anywhere you want. I appreciate that playfields and other products are available. I don't want any manufactures to stop selling pinball products. This thread is getting thirsty

    -9
    #169 10 months ago

    He posted an apology what do you want him to do, kiss your ass?

    -9
    #170 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I think not. Sent a email to Jack. Everyone should take notice of the extreme measures Mirco will take.

    As in Jersey Jack? You know, for all the repetitive sanctimonious bluster on this thread about fair business practices, for you to turn around and go after his business... If there were any moral highground, you certainly lost it with that.

    Shame on you.

    -6
    #171 10 months ago

    Wow, yeah bad form.

    14
    #172 10 months ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    As in Jersey Jack? You know, for all the repetitive sanctimonious bluster on this thread about fair business practices, for you to turn around and go after his business... If there were any moral highground, you certainly lost it with that.
    Shame on you.

    not even remotely. Mirco pulled a bunch of BS with nothing to back it up. He single handly tried to ruin the livelyhood of a small guy that has been part of the community for decades and doing quality work for years. He did so with direct threats of litigation and demands that were insane to even ask, let alone tell someone.

    Given his complete disregard for John and others, there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting others in the industry know of this thread and Mircos actions. If anything John is being a great community member. He is reaching out to his peers with FACTS so that way they are aware of the character of whom they are dealing with.

    If I were in the business and using Mirco, I would want to know that he is A. willing to take litigation on a whim, and B. that his ego is so big that he is unwilling to own his BS and come clean, even when it is hurting his business.

    That is a deadly and scary combination in a business and someone worth avoiding as a customer and vendor. Someone silly enough to even threaten litigation for something he appears to not have the rights to, and stupid enough to follow through on it and waste everyone time/$ in court.

    Toss on top that his previous actions have established this is his behavior and MO. (e.g. the making of pfs in the 11th hour that CPR has already put years into making in an effort to try and hurt them) This guy does not seem to see that there is more than enough room in the pinball pf reproduction market and even he and his robots can not possibly meet the demands of the community. Instead he seems to like bullying his way around the community with often subpar product. Seems like he should focus on getting pfs done and improving his quality first. Then he can worry about the "competition"

    #173 10 months ago
    Quoted from pinaholic:

    This is a free country and you can buy whatever you want anywhere you want. I appreciate that playfields and other products are available. I don't want any manufactures to stop selling pinball products. This thread is getting thirsty

    Because screw ethics, I want my playfield!

    #174 10 months ago

    I fear this issue could turn into a Hatfield's and McCoy's long running feud which no one will win. A Pyrrhic victory, if you will. John, at some point, if the threat no longer exists, you have to move on. Otherwise, you will be consumed and your business will suffer.

    #175 10 months ago

    This is coming to a end today. No real apology! Blame me for his actions & threats. I have reached out to Gary & Jack about Mirco threatening legal pm.

    MIRCO DOES NOT POST UP HIS PM HERE FOR PEOPLE TO SEE. Was quick to have it removed & moderated. Gives his I was doing John a favour. I would not want to get it legal & go to court. Bullshit about he had exclusive rights to be the only world producer of classic stern parts - playfields, plastics, & backglass. That he ordered me to post & announce world wide on Thursday, that I was not selling or manufacturing these parts. If you are a Mirco supporter good for you!

    As everyone can see Mirco is moving forward & onto his many different playfield titles. Good for him & the hobby! The bad thing is he continues to duplicate playfields others are doing like CPR. Why? All the other tiny producers are likely thinking why gamble to produce low demand playfields. He seems to have no concern about his actions to the pinball hobby!

    #176 10 months ago

    good call John.

    I agree that you just do you. Keep making pfs and you have done your due diligence to inform your peers.

    The community at large now knows about this and will be sure to inform others.
    Many will purchase on ethics and morals and not just because some dude overseas has a pf they want.

    Let this go and put it behind you

    We will continue to keep others informed over the long haul.
    IF Mirco ever decides to properly apologize then it will be noted also, but I am guessing that will never happen.

    Looking forward to my new glass coming from you and I will continue to support as I can!

    #177 10 months ago
    Quoted from Chalkey:

    He posted an apology what do you want him to do, kiss your ass?

    Well that would be a good one. I will be at TPF. Better than his half ass apology. Might be a fitting thing to do.

    26
    #178 10 months ago

    I agree what Mirco did was not the best way to go about it, but this is really turning into a mob. Demanding that he do what "you" think he should do...look the word is out, people can make a choice if they want to do business with him, but Jesus its time to let it go...

    #179 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    Well that would be a good one. I will be at TPF. Better than his half ass apology. Might be a fitting thing to do.

    I am amused by the idea that on a listing of events for TPF there would be an item that says "2 P.M. - Mirco kisses Great John's ass as a public apology".

    #180 10 months ago
    Quoted from darcangeloel:

    I am amused by the idea that on a listing of events for TPF there would be an item that says "2 P.M. - Mirco kisses Great John's ass as a public apology".

    Ok now that was funny!!!

    #181 10 months ago
    Quoted from darcangeloel:

    I am amused by the idea that on a listing of events for TPF there would be an item that says "2 P.M. - Mirco kisses Great John's ass as a public apology".

    Charity fundraiser?

    #182 10 months ago
    Quoted from jellikit:

    Charity fundraiser?

    Done and done...LOL... wait I think we have to get Mirco to sign off. I don't want any faux lawsuits. highclasspinball - any objections to this? I think if you could accommodate that request then people would stop being mad and continue to buy play fields.

    #183 10 months ago

    Would this be similar to the Vince McMahon Kiss My Ass club ?

    https://goo.gl/images/DjKWKe

    #184 10 months ago

    I think saying Mirco is making playfields others are producing is a bit misleading. CPR has said they are "collecting orders" for sorcerer for 2 years plus and no movement on the website. They have about 30 playfields listed in their preorder page, does that mean nobody else gets to touch them? IIRC CPR put up Seawitch after John said he's making them, something that was lamented in that thread.

    In my opinion what I think happened was CPR sat on these for years with no movement, Mirco decided to make them and CPR saw this and put them into production on the sly in order to hurt Mirco's sales. They were never listed along with the other titles currently on CPRs production page. Then Mirco gets all spun up, makes some ridiculous claims, John goes after his livelihood and here we are.

    No excuses made for anyone, just saying I dont think there's room for anybody to get all high and mighty and playfield mfgs seem pretty cutthroat. Now someone go make stars.

    #185 10 months ago

    John, you have won
    you have nothing more (but you could still loose) by continuing this issue

    move forward

    #186 10 months ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    John, you have won
    you have nothing more (but you could still loose) by continuing this issue
    move forward

    Have you been Oozing?

    review-19 (resized).jpg
    #187 10 months ago

    Are we there yet?

    #188 10 months ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    I agree what Mirco did was not the best way to go about it, but this is really turning into a mob. Demanding that he do what "you" think he should do...look the word is out, people can make a choice if they want to do business with him, but Jesus its time to let it go...

    Agreed.

    I get why John is upset -- unless other evidence turns up, it appears he was directly lied to in an attempt to drive him out of business. That is inarguably messed up, and it was completely reasonable for John to notify the community and Gary Stern about it.

    But expecting Mirco to apologize further or reengage in the conversation is unrealistic. What could he possibly say at this point that would make any difference? Unless Mirco actually has those exclusive classic Stern rights (with enforcement authority), he needs to put his head down, provide stellar products and customer support, and stay far away from the kind of "dirty tricks" that caused this mess in the first place. Some will never buy from him again, some may give him a second chance if he keeps his nose clean, and some won't care. Whichever camp you're in, more words from Mirco or anyone else aren't going to change your mind at this point.

    #189 10 months ago
    apology (resized).jpgbooting (resized).jpg
    #190 10 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    This guy does not seem to see that there is more than enough room in the pinball pf reproduction market and even he and his robots can not possibly meet the demands of the community.

    Snowman, I'm not sure I agree with that.

    First, you have to admit that some pins are never going go to a value that anyone would want to bury their selves in by restoring a play field. The best some of these pins can ever hope for is play field protector. Or a professional restoration.

    2nd, how many TAFs will be restored with a repro play field before the saturation point is reached, for example?

    3rd, how many play fields have to be produced and sold for it to be a profitable venture?

    4th, how many people are willing to make the investment of hundreds of dollars to restore their pin? I have buried myself in my Stern Big Game by having the play field restored. How many more would be willing to do this for a Big Game? Only 2700 were produced and there is no idea of how many are left?

    Stern produced 2,503 Seawitches. How many Seawitches are still living? How many will be restored?

    Look at CPR. There were 18,250 Bally Playboys produced and CPR is on its 2nd run because they sell.

    OTOH, 10,100 Joker Pokers produced and two years on CPR still has them for sale. 200 Pinsiders own JP. There are 149 wishlisters. Are JPs being restored with a new play field?

    3700 Sorcerers were produced. How many are left to see a new play field? How many will be restored?

    I don't have any numbers, but my thinking is that most of the repro play fields have been limited to the Top 100. And that is not that large of market.

    So, if you own a big hungry machine that can make a lot of play fields there comes a point in time where you have to branch out and look for new business.

    Mirco got his eyes opened when he canvassed for interest in the Stern Quicksilver play field. He found there was enough demand to produce a QS play field. I"m only guessing but I would be willing to bet that demand for less than 25 play fields. A big hungry machine can eat that up in a couple of weeks and has to go shopping for more.

    You very well could be correct that there is room for everybody, but I'm not seeing it that way.

    #191 10 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    You very well could be correct that there is room for everybody, but I'm not seeing it that way.

    how many new titles have each of the big manufacturers produced in the past 12 months?

    CPR?
    MIRCO?

    #192 10 months ago

    This is the last day of me posting about this on the thread (Feb. 5 Midnight Atlantic Time). It will stay up for reference of the personal attack to myself & tiny parts production business. People can see how Mirco will not post his pm, way too incriminating about legal threats. His over stating his agreement with Gary Stern, & classic stern parts exclusive production. He will never give a real apology or kiss my ass at TPF this year.

    It is a laugh, maybe a few people might think twice about buying something from Mirco Playfields. But in reality Mirco can do what ever he wants & get away with it. Just look at all the excuses people throw up there, along with the man himself. So by not posting up the pm he can weasel his way out of this mess.
    Way to go, your a winner in playfield production for the world already with your army of robots. Why you had to try & destroy my business last Thursday I will likely never know.

    #193 10 months ago

    Are you allowed to pm us the pm?

    #194 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    So by not posting up the pm he can weasel his way out of this mess.

    I disagree. He flat out admitted what he did. He isn’t the copyright or patent holder. So he can literally do nothing but hurl empty threats which he admitted he did.

    And because of that I know I won’t ever buy a mirco playfield.

    #195 10 months ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    I disagree. He flat out admitted what he did. He isn’t the copyright or patent holder. So he can literally do nothing but hurl empty threats which he admitted he did.
    And because of that I know I won’t ever buy a mirco playfield.

    His own words & what was said was dramatically changed here in his posts. Others have given a general idea of what the pm said. I am sure Robin & maybe other moderators might of been shown his pm that I posted up, & was quickly removed by request from Mirco.

    #196 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    His own words & what was said was dramatically changed here in his posts. Others have given a general idea of what the pm said. I am sure Robin & maybe other moderators might of been shown his pm that I posted up, & was quickly removed by request from Mirco.

    I disagree. He flat out said:

    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    .....Thatwhy I reached out direct without using any lawyer right away.
    ......
    Aynway I will not take any action right now and let it go.

    Regards,
    Mirco

    He admitted he tried to strong arm you with empty threats since he has no right or way to pursue since he is not the copyright or patent holder. He has as much ability to sue you over the old stern electronics copyright/patents as I do. Which is zero.

    #197 10 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    how many new titles have each of the big manufacturers produced in the past 12 months?
    CPR?
    MIRCO?

    I don't know. I don't know who has produced what. What is left that enough people want that would make it worthwhile to produce?

    I don't know how to track who is wanting what. Or which ones are needed? I know Stern's Meteor and Nine Ball are wanted. I signed up for the Catacomb possibility. I know there are some who want a Barracora.

    What about Bally? Gottlieb?

    #198 10 months ago

    Thanks vid1900 ... now I'm gonna be on a Sex Pistols kick for the next several weeks ... I have been hooked on them ever since Megadeth released their cover of "Anarchy in the UK" years ago .

    #199 10 months ago

    John made Sorcerer PFs when nobody else did, and thanks to John, I have a FANTASTIC playing Sorcerer.
    I am grateful to John for his dedication to the hobby, and look forward to receiving my Seawitch PF this year.
    I am very disappointed to learn that anyone would ever attempt to f*ck with John -- he is a threat to nobody's bottom line. Period.
    -mof

    #200 10 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    It will stay up for reference of the personal attack to myself & tiny parts production business. People can see how Mirco will not post his pm, way too incriminating about legal threats. His over stating his agreement with Gary Stern, & classic stern parts exclusive production.

    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    So by not posting up the pm he can weasel his way out of this mess.

    I kind of disagree. I think everyone reading this thread agrees on the important facts; he tried to shut you down with legal threats he was not justified in making.

    I don't see him "weaseling" out of this. People will judge the situation, his apology and their future purchase decisions according to their own thoughts.

    Who knows, this situation might motivate Mirco to work with you and CPR on title selection to rebuild good will in the community.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball Shop
    $ 29.95
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 86.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 129.10
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    PinWoofer
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 45.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Great American Pinball
    $ 219.99
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 40.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Pinfarmer Mods
    $ 11.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 90.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 19.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 369.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 7.00
    Various Other Swag
    Project Pinball Charity
    € 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    YOYOKOPTER MODS
    $ 199.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Lit Frames
    $ 78.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    There are 211 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.

    This topic is closed.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside