(Topic ID: 235050)

Mirco - Exclusive Classic Stern Parts Manufacture? Bogus Legal Threats!


By greatwichjohn

6 months ago



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  • 211 posts
  • 82 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by CraigC
  • Topic is favorited by 37 Pinsiders

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    #101 6 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    it is not allowed to publish any private massages without permission.

    oh, do tell!

    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    Aynway I will not take any action right now and let it go.

    Bluff called.

    12
    #102 6 months ago

    Highclasspinball... I think you need a new user name.

    #103 6 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    Hi All,

    my apologies for any trouble I have caused.

    #104 6 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Highclasspinball... I think you need a new user name.

    Bwaaaaahahahahahahahaha

    980x (resized).jpg
    17
    #105 6 months ago

    Well I am home. Not much of a response from Mirco about the shit storm he tried to start here. If he had a brain he would know I am a licensee of Gottlieb LLC, & Planetary Pinball. As for Classic Stern there was no requirements in the past, & I await a response from Gary Stern. Over many years of production, & donating backglass at shows. Also not like I have not been doing pinball restorations for years (did you forget Sorcerer direct ink restorations). Star Gazer & Seawitch thread & production is still finishing up after 5 years. Not like I have been hiding from Gary Stern or anyone else. Plus I have been speaking at shows for 11 years. This was a outrageous threat of legal action & not showing proof. The only apology I want is Mirco to ask Robin to post his PM to me up again at the start of my thread (post) If he does I will edit this post in a few days & move on. If not it can stay up, & maybe he will learn a serious lesson about threats! He asked for Robin to remove the threatening PM, & again threatened legal action if not removed.

    Today 4 Seawitch tests done on new plywood, & 8 Star Gazer playfields cut. Takes 4.5 hours to cut front & backside of either title. Picture of cnc in action. The other 8 Star Gazer will be ready Monday. The other 5 sheets of plywood for Seawitch will be stored under the cnc. Hope to cut these by the end of the month.

    IMG_0001 (resized).JPGIMG_0002 (resized).JPG
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    #106 6 months ago

    Any chance of doing a Stern Dracula backglass later on down the track John, 98% of the ones I see are pretty shot and mine is totally shot.

    #107 6 months ago

    I am open to doing any Classic Stern playfield, or backglass. That being said I am not a art guy! So any project needs to be ready to print. 200 dpi is enough. For backglass you need 3 files: color. white (use a color not used), & blocking (medium gray). Still have no word on QuickSilver glass. I would like to have another playfield title to run. But I am not interested in anything (playfield) that CPR or Mirco are doing. There is lots of others that could be done.

    #108 6 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I am open to doing any Classic Stern playfield, or backglass. That being said I am not a art guy! So any project needs to be ready to print. 200 dpi is enough. For backglass you need 3 files: color. white (use a color not used), & blocking (medium gray). Still have no word on QuickSilver glass. I would like to have another playfield title to run. But I am not interested in anything (playfield) that CPR or Mirco are doing. There is lots of others that could be done.

    What about stars playfeild

    #109 6 months ago

    Thanks anyway John,
    I appreciate the answer,
    I wish I was an art person but I have no idea how to do it. I do have a HP Scanjet 4670 I could scan glass or a playfield with but no help if you are like me and don't know how to stitch it back together or correct the colors., a Dracula playfield would be great thing as well.
    Keep up the fantastic work you do.

    #110 6 months ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    I thought I heard that Gary's ex wife received rights to the old Stern.
    Keep going John.

    Yes, that is what Gary told me years ago and the ex-wife does not care about it anyways.

    15
    #111 6 months ago

    Guys,

    No need to speculate. I've already talked to Gary Stern personally.
    Sorry all the details are buried in another thread, thus not being seen here, but they are over in the Sorcerer Playfield announce thread:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/announce-cpr-williams-sorcerer-playfields#post-4815512

    The reason they are over there is because Mirco popped in to bellyache that I mentioned the color mix of our digital printer, and inferred I was copycatting him or something. Way off topic, and in my Sorcerer thread, for all to see. Right out of left field, unprovoked. Dude is behaving unhinged.

    Anyway, I took the opportunity to post my findings in the same respone, about John's situation (he's right here in Halifax with us), as well as find out for ourselves too (as CPR has been a longtime maker of assorted Classic Stern repro items). Like I say at the bottom of that TL:DR piece, I'm not going to comment with any details further. Nor get into a back-n-forth with anybody.

    I'm only planting this here as a cross-thread link, since it appears a lot are still unaware of the update I posted.

    #112 6 months ago

    Keep up the good work John, you are an asset

    15
    #113 6 months ago

    I did get a personal pm apology from Mirco today. The guy still does not get what shit storm he has created. You do not send out legal threats in a pinside pm to a person making products. Telling them to stop making & selling product, to announce here on pinside you are no longer manufacturing product. To go on & state that Mirco is the only Gary Stern authorised Classic Stern Producer for playfields, plastics, & backglass in the world. Still does not show what type of agreement he has, or not either verbal or in writing.

    The other Classic Stern Parts producers should take notice of this. They also seem to avoiding saying if they were contacted.

    So for now I await a response from Gary Stern. Mirco still seems like I need to inform him of how I run my one man operation. What products I can do. He has offered to mold the arrow, which I will decline.

    Looks like I will leave this post header as is. Since he does not have the balls to post his personal pm with legal threats!

    -20
    #114 6 months ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I did get a personal pm apology from Mirco today. The guy still does not get what shit storm he has created. You do not send out legal threats in a pinside pm to a person making products. Telling them to stop making & selling product, to announce here on pinside you are no longer manufacturing product. To go on & state that Mirco is the only Gary Stern authorised Classic Stern Producer for playfields, plastics, & backglass in the world. Still does not show what type of agreement he has, or not either verbal or in writing.
    The other Classic Stern Parts producers should take notice of this. They also seem to avoiding saying if they were contacted.
    So for now I await a response from Gary Stern. Mirco still seems like I need to inform him of how I run my one man operation. What products I can do. He has offered to mold the arrow, which I will decline.
    Looks like I will leave this post header as is. Since he does not have the balls to post his personal pm with legal threats!

    I get that you (and others) are miffed by this, and it seems like that is understandable. You also said he sent an apology, but it seems like you are still trying to continue the shit storm by demanding he post something he apologized for.

    We all make mistakes, but we need to let each other walk our mistakes back too. My concern is you all are never going to be happy with any amount of shit you try and force Mirco to eat to make it right.

    10
    #115 6 months ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    I get that you (and others) are miffed by this, and it seems like that is understandable. You also said he sent an apology, but it seems like you are still trying to continue the shit storm by demanding he post something he apologized for.
    We all make mistakes, but we need to let each other walk our mistakes back too. My concern is you all are never going to be happy with any amount of shit you try and force Mirco to eat to make it right.

    Mirco is only apologizing because he got called out on it. In fact he still believes his PM shouldn’t have been displayed. While it may be against the rules on Pinside, I think it was fair to post. The guy was a jerk, using intimidation and talking how expensive a lawyer would be if John didn’t stop right now. Since robin removed the PM that started this whole conversation only mirco can put it back. And if mirco is a man of his words and truly believes what he was saying he would do so!

    #116 6 months ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    I get that you (and others) are miffed by this, and it seems like that is understandable. You also said he sent an apology, but it seems like you are still trying to continue the shit storm by demanding he post something he apologized for.
    We all make mistakes, but we need to let each other walk our mistakes back too. My concern is you all are never going to be happy with any amount of shit you try and force Mirco to eat to make it right.

    Mirco has a history of this sort of behavior. When it is a trend, I dont think he should be just let off with a simple "oops" esp since you know it is only a halfassed attempt to save face after seeing the ramification to his business.

    #117 6 months ago

    please make a meteor playfield

    Neil.

    #118 6 months ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    please make a meteor playfield
    Neil.

    Meteor is in the CPR preorder section.

    https://classicplayfields.com/preorders/

    order yours today, operators are standing by.

    19
    #119 6 months ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    We all make mistakes, but we need to let each other walk our mistakes back too.

    Sorry I accidentally sent you a long threatening email full of blustery lawyer language that I was going to sue you and ruin your business that you've put years of your sweat and labor into, I must have pressed the wrong keys while reaching for my coffee. My mistake!

    Oh wait, wrong apology, these pesky keyboard keys. I was trying to type sorry I got caught being an ass, it's making me worry about my own business, that sucks. So sorry!

    #120 6 months ago

    Let me know when I can buy a big game playfield and backglass please! Haha

    11
    #121 6 months ago

    This is such a small hobby (in relation to so many other hobbies out there) That attacking/threatening a fellow parts producer, especially such a small one who does VERY LIMITED production parts, is just a terrible terrible look. & Then it looks even worse ,when it turns out that the attack was based on fabricated information about an agreement etc with Gary Stern.

    I don't get why anyone would risk their reputation & their business over something so stupid/fabricated but... whatever. I know it's definitely soured any potential future dealings on PF purchases for me with Mirco, & it puts Both CPR & John in a better light. I really appreciate the fact that Kevin @ CPR went to bat for JG & contacted Gary Stern right away... to sort out fact from fiction. We don't all have the ability/contacts/pull to do that, & the fact that he was willing to definitely says a lot about his character.

    These classic Sterns are hard enough to get parts for, we really don't need someone fabricating stories about having exclusive rights to making them & hurting the hobby.

    #122 6 months ago
    Quoted from WeatherbyMAG:

    I don't get why anyone would risk their reputation & their business over something so stupid/fabricated

    Like my grandfather always said "Stupid people do stupid things; there is no way to ever make sense of it."

    -12
    #123 6 months ago

    I need a Stern Lightning playfield and I don't care if it is a CPR, Mirco or a JG reproduction. I just need the playfield.

    #125 6 months ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    I need a Stern Lightning playfield and I don't care if it is a CPR, Mirco or a JG reproduction. I just need the playfield.

    So you are happy as long as you get what you want no matter who it comes from or how? I don’t know, things change for me when I see behavior such as this.

    Mirco’s apology is garbage in my opinion. If he would of posted his Pm, owned it, and admitted poor behavior, manipulation, etc.. I myself would like to think I would’ve forgiven him.

    -9
    #126 6 months ago

    This thread is done.

    #127 6 months ago

    No it's not

    #128 6 months ago

    Everything has been said, what else is there?

    #129 6 months ago

    Everything was said & was removed because of Mirco complaining about his actual pm email to me on pinside. His mistake big time trying to threaten me & my hobby one man business. Still does not have the balls to have Robin post it up. People make mistakes, but they do not do what he did (legal threats). Plain & simple. It was not maybe I will take some legal action. Then he comes up with he does not know me or what Classic Stern products I produce, licensing with Gottlieb LLC & Planetary Pinball.

    I will gladly edit this post header if the pm email threats is posted! If not it can stay up for people to see in the future. I am still waiting to hear back from Gary Stern.

    19
    #130 6 months ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Everything has been said, what else is there?

    This thread will live forever!

    or at least until:

    1. There is a full admission of the lie.
    (not some halfassed "Durrrr....I mean....I really did once talk to Stern about..." but a full admission "Yes, I lied, because I am a liar.")

    and

    2. There is a full, genuine apology to John and CPR; two companies who are a vital part of this small hobby.
    (again, a real apology, not some "Ummmm....I only did it because my robot felt threatened and said she would form an axis with my Roomba and I...I....I have a lot of pet hair in my apartment...")

    I know how many playfields I buy each year from Mirco, and how many I clear for my customers from Mirco - as of now, that's no longer happening.
    lies (resized).jpg

    #131 6 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    This thread will live forever!
    or at least until:
    1. There is a full admission of the lie.
    (not some halfassed "Durrrr....I mean....I really did once talk to Stern about..." but a full admission "Yes, I lied, because I am a liar.")
    and
    2. There is a full, genuine apology to John and CPR; two companies who are a vital part of this small hobby.
    (again, a real apology, not some "Ummmm....I only did it because my robot felt threatened and said she would form an axis with my Roomba and I...I....I have a lot of pet hair in my apartment...")
    I know how many playfields I buy each year from Mirco, and how many I clear for my customers from Mirco - as of now, that's no longer happening.
    [quoted image]

    Made me think of this lol, might only make sense to those who watched or still watch sponge bob

    wXCfyPt (resized).png
    #132 6 months ago

    Both you guys should amend your posts
    Neither are License Holders as a licensee can't sub license

    they are a manufacturer making replacement parts with the licensee permission with a financial arrangement

    19
    #133 6 months ago

    I saw the original message and can paraphrase (pretty sure PMs are allowed to be put in my own words? on pinside)
    I think it is important for the community to see the level of bully tactic without proof that Mirco is attempting to do here and how he is treating a respected and fellow parts manufacturer in our small community.

    It went something like this (my paraphrase but I believe it captures accurately what/how he said it)
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Hi John,

    I would like to tell you that I have an exclusive deal with Stern for making all art parts for older games. This agreement is effective now and it lets me sue you and everyone else making reproduction parts for these games.

    You are breaking international law since you make playfields and other parts for Stern games.
    I am telling you to post now in your current Pinside sales thread and specifically cease making any/all stern electronics related products (pf, plastics, backglass).

    If you continue to offer any of these parts you will face an expensive lawsuit. My lawyer is already collecting evidence to sue you; even from Germany I have no problem starting an international lawsuit.

    This will be very expensive for you, so I am being nice in telling you to stop now before we meet in court. Stop selling/offering immediately and tell the public that you are no longer allowed to sell or else...

    Please be aware that any private massage or email sales are also not allowed and I will sue.

    If you have any questions please contact me.

    Mirco
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    #134 6 months ago

    wow what an (*_) from Mirco.

    I wish John and Kevin all the best!

    Cannot stand fake people , lying people friends or not.
    life is way too short for this type of shit.

    #135 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I saw the original message and can paraphrase (pretty sure PMs are allowed to be put in my own words? on pinside)
    I think it is important for the community to see the level of bully tactic without proof that Mirco is attempting to do here and how he is treating a respected and fellow parts manufacturer in our small community.
    It went something like this (my paraphrase but I believe it captures accurately what/how he said it)
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Hi John,
    I would like to tell you that I have an exclusive deal with Stern for making all art parts for older games. This agreement is effective now and it lets me sue you and everyone else making reproduction parts for these games.
    You are breaking international law since you make playfields and other parts for Stern games.
    I am telling you to post now in your current Pinside sales thread and specifically cease making any/all stern electronics related products (pf, plastics, backglass).
    If you continue to offer any of these parts you will face an expensive lawsuit. My lawyer is already collecting evidence to sue you; even from Germany I have no problem starting an international lawsuit.
    This will be very expensive for you, so I am being nice in telling you to stop now before we meet in court. Stop selling/offering immediately and tell the public that you are no longer allowed to sell or else...
    Please be aware that any private massage or email sales are also not allowed and I will sue.
    If you have any questions please contact me.
    Mirco
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    You were right on with your paraphrasing of this. That was the tone and attitude.

    #136 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I saw the original message and can paraphrase (pretty sure PMs are allowed to be put in my own words? on pinside)
    I think it is important for the community to see the level of bully tactic without proof that Mirco is attempting to do here and how he is treating a respected and fellow parts manufacturer in our small community.
    It went something like this (my paraphrase but I believe it captures accurately what/how he said it)
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Hi John,
    I would like to tell you that I have an exclusive deal with Stern for making all art parts for older games. This agreement is effective now and it lets me sue you and everyone else making reproduction parts for these games.
    You are breaking international law since you make playfields and other parts for Stern games.
    I am telling you to post now in your current Pinside sales thread and specifically cease making any/all stern electronics related products (pf, plastics, backglass).
    If you continue to offer any of these parts you will face an expensive lawsuit. My lawyer is already collecting evidence to sue you; even from Germany I have no problem starting an international lawsuit.
    This will be very expensive for you, so I am being nice in telling you to stop now before we meet in court. Stop selling/offering immediately and tell the public that you are no longer allowed to sell or else...
    Please be aware that any private massage or email sales are also not allowed and I will sue.
    If you have any questions please contact me.
    Mirco
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    The implied ability to sue over private massages really scares me.

    #137 6 months ago

    What annoyed me more than the legal threats was showing no PROOF! There was no info posted of a exclusive deal of Mirco Playfields having the ONLY rights to produce new Classic Stern Parts - playfields, plastics, & backglass. I do not know if bgresto, or classicarcades, etc. got the same threats. Seems like I got the target being the smallest producer of product. Glad Mike & Kevin at CPR made some calls along with others to sort this out.

    #138 6 months ago

    This is like when the IRS calls you on the phone to tell you that you owe back taxes.

    #139 6 months ago

    The big difference is Mirco is a huge & respected producer of playfields. Now caught in the act trying to shut down a small producer (legal threats), & lies with no proof. He continues to think that all he has to do is tell Gary Stern what I can do. Mirco should show what he actually has as a deal or proof from Gary Stern. Seems like all Mirco wants to do is blame me for his sending me the pm to me, & me posting the threats with no proof of a Stern agreement.

    I am sure Mirco knows who I am over the years producing backglass & playfields. What projects I am doing over the years. My picture is there with my info on pinside. I see Mirco over the years at shows, many nice playfields on display & for sale. Produces playfields for manufacturers of new games. Never personally talked with him at the shows since I do not own those games or need a replacement for one I have owned. I know how I lose my voice talking with many people so why would I waste his time. Wish he had never contacted me with his legal threats, lawyer gathering info, etc. to bring me to court. He would then have to explain all of this!

    #140 6 months ago

    The obvious problem with being a big producer and then lying to close down another company's business, is that it could all easily backfire in his face.

    If everyone told their distributor "Look, do not send me any Stern or JJP game that has a Mirco playfield in it, or I will do a chargeback on my credit card" that would be the end.

    Distributors could look at the shooter lane by cutting a small flap in the box.

    If the shooter lane has all the weird stripes like this, the customer would refuse the shipment (or do a chargeback):

    1caec34e529cbc45597ec7106de45eb21595197e (resized).jpeg
    -12
    #141 6 months ago

    this is not one of my playfields.

    12
    #142 6 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    this is not one of my playfields.

    ADMIT YOU LIED, AND GIVE AN REAL APOLOGY TO JOHN AND CPR

    #143 6 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    this is not one of my playfields.

    You say.

    What is up with your strong arm tactics? Are your bankers leaning on you?

    #144 6 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    ADMIT YOU LIED, AND GIVE AN REAL APOLOGY TO JOHN AND CPR

    Is Mirco right about this not being one of his playfields?

    #145 6 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    this is not one of my playfields.

    Look what the cat drug in. Mirco, you need to issue a formal apology for what you've done. Stop stalling and do the right thing.

    11
    #146 6 months ago

    I already did send Apologies to both. I'm very sorry and regret it! It was not a nice move. Please acceppt my apologies.

    #147 6 months ago
    Quoted from Highclasspinball:

    I already did send Apologies to both. I'm very sorry and regret it! It was not a nice move. Please acceppt my apologies.

    please provide the proof of your claim to have exclusive rights to all stern art/products

    That is the only thing that will help you at this point... To prove that you actually even had the weight behind your bullying. It wont excuse your lack of tact, but it would at least prove you are correct in your position.

    #148 6 months ago

    What I find most troubling is how ruthless and unethical he showed himself to be. You could see a little bit of it with the way he was trying to undercut CPR by producing the exact same titles just before CPR did, but these threats to John take it to whole new level. Claiming he was doing John a favor by being too cheap to send a proper C&D through his lawyer. He's a liar. Who knows, maybe his lawyer turned him down since he has no legal standing. No one in their right mind would respect a PM like that. A lawyer sending a proper C&D would have been far more formal, civil and respectful compared to the kind of nasty things he spouted at John. Then the half-assed apology just reinforced it and made him look worse since he was still trying to justify doing it and came across as pretty insincere at the same time. What a jerk.

    #149 6 months ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    Is Mirco right about this not being one of his playfields?

    its a meaningless tangent. The photo in that post appears to be a metallica LE... so it would be a stern game, and stern doesn't use mirco PFs. So technically not mirco... but meaningless to the point being made.

    #150 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    please provide the proof of your claim to have exclusive rights to all stern art/products
    That is the only thing that will help you at this point... To prove that you actually even had the weight behind your bullying. It wont excuse your lack of tact, but it would at least prove you are correct in your position.

    cant provide info he don't have. hence...……. the apology!

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