It contains solvents, throw it in the trash.

Any combo product usually doesn't do a good job of both. Clean or wax. And since this has silicone and no wax, I'd use it for things like the playfield window on Black Hole. But not on the playfield.

LTG

Exactly.

I think the stuff is pure crap. Drives me insane that people still use this stuff, and I can always tell when they do because the star posts always have the tell-tale signs of that nasty build up in them. UGH.

used it once on my pf then people told me to stop using that product, got Nevus #1,2 and 3

The fact it was free says it all, I used it once and gave the bottle to a friend.

Just remember you need to use wax after Novus if you want to leave some protection behind.

I used it over the years on EMs with lacquered playfields that were heavily grimed up.
my bottle said Mill wax pinball wax & had a picture of a pinball machine on it ,
not to be confused with any millwax product you would find at a home center such as Home Depot or Lowes. - just to be clear

Show your appreciation by getting him some Novus and wax

From what I have heard and use myself, don't get liquid. Get a good, hard wax. No paste, no liquid, the solid stuff that looks like butter.

I have had nothing but good results with Mil Wax... (Novus 2 was used first, followed by a couple thin coats of mil wax..)

I only use it on old EM's... I have heard you wouldn't want to use it on a modern play-field, though.. (No first hand exp, so I can't say one way or another)
I REALLY like it for metal parts.. It WILL pull the ink off the top of pop covers..

468365_2954781193532_1381519105_321303.jpg DSC06453sm.jpg SMDSC06333.jpg

Thats beautiful!! Is the PF clearcoated? It sure looks like it!

Thanks! No clear coat... just very sore arms & a shamwow!!

Darn Juggernaut those games look fantastic

Very impressive!!!

Pinball Millwax has been used for years and is especially made for pins. Car wax is not made for pins. Simple Green isn't either. Millwax does what it is supposed to do, cleans and leaves a protective coat in one step instead of 2 or 3. People often say it's "trash" or "will destroy a playfield" etc etc but there's not one documented instance of this ever happening other than opinion.

I've heard Millwax has silicone in it. Isn't that what Armor All has in it? Why don't we just cut to the chase and spray Armor All on our playfields? Silicone would be a fine protective coat and it would make it oooohh so shiney.

I have used Millwax, it did not destroy my play field but it did not work well, did nothing really except remove dirt. Novus2 is a polish, it removes tiny scratches and polishes the surface, followed up by several applications of carnuba wax you get a high gloss result. The wax also protects the play field, once I Novus2 and wax, I only have to put a little wax on a rag and go over the play field by hand to remove dirt and restore the high gloss shine.

Diamond plate is basically the same clear coat used on automobiles. Novus products are actually sold for several automotive applications and I believe is similar to some of the high end polish kits as well.

Mill Wax seemed to work great for my machine. I first cleaned the pf with novus 1 then applied Millwax and the game looks and plays so much better. I wonder if ear wax would work in a pinch?

LOL.

Talk about opinions! Please tell me exactly what it is about Millwax that is unique and "especially made for pins"?! While you are at it, please tell me what it is about car wax that would not make it appropriate for use on pins that have a cc on it?!

Also, I must have missed all these posts talking about how Millwax will "destroy a playfield". I think the stuff is crap, doesn't work well, doesn't protect, causes a mess by getting into cracks and crevices and does not wipe off cleanly compared to other products. Doesn't mean that I think it will "destroy a playfield".

I'm willing to bet that this company simply had one of the car wax companies put one of their formulas into a bottle labeled Millwax "especially made for pinball machines".
You can have private labeling and "custom blends" done right here:

http://www.chemicalguys.com/articles.asp?ID=7

I could start my own Pinball Wax line if I wanted to.

Too funny.

Millwax was made to be sold to lazy ops. It worked.

Automotive clear coats ares used on playfields - so car wax works fine.

Millwax won't hurt anything, unless you want to touch up paint or clear coat later, you'll never get the silicone off the playfield.

We just keep learning better ways to care for our games.

Games that were not designed to live as long as they have and in as great a shape as we keep them.

LTG

RobT....Holy cow dude, calm down. Have you researched millwax or been to it's site? It says right on the bottle "Pinball Playfield Wax and Cleaner". Do any car wax products say they are designed for pinball machines? Maybe you could tell me where car wax products actually do say "designed for pinball machines as well".
"Mill Wax-- trusted by Operators and Pinball Collectors since 1976..."
If you've missed posts where people discuss what they believe Millwax does to playfields then go look them up yourself. Why do I have to repost something you've missed?

Your quote..."I'm willing to bet that this company simply had one of the car wax companies put one of their formulas into a bottle labeled Millwax "especially made for pinball machines".

I don't know about betting but it looks like your ready to speculate that Millwax is also engaged in a relabeling practice. Sheesh.

Yes it was used for years....in the days of EM playfields that were finished in lacquer.

Millwax WILL damage a modern day pin. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence of that if you bother to search. The primary ingredients in Millwax are silicone and petroleum distillates. Both are very harmful to the modern day plastics used on pins. This includes mylar (will lift mylar and cloud mylar), plastics (will remove the inks because it acts as a solvent) and even the playfield itself because modern pins are not cleared with lacquer but with a plastic polymer based urethane.

To say that wax isn't made for pins is a bit ludicrous...Wax is made to protect urethane clear coats. Whether it is on a car or your playfield.

Oh, and BTW....WMS specifically warned against using petroleum based products as cleaners on their games.... http://www.dziedzic.us/images/mylars.gif

Wow...source?

The author of "Pinball Machine Care and Maintenance" recommends Millwax. That lazy bugger. And for those who have a bottle and need a quick reference to directions...

1.Do not pour Mill Wax directly on the playfield. Mill Wax is a fairly thick viscous liquid, but you don’t want it to run down into openings, crevices, switches or light sockets.
2.Apply Mill Wax directly to a clean cheesecloth patch such as Mill Wipes Cleaning, Waxing, Wiping, Polishing Patches (or a clean rag) and scrub your playfield in a circular motion. Mill Wipes tight weave, compact size and low-linting folded edges were specially designed for cleaning and waxing pinball playfields, allowing you to get in to those tight corners and spaces between ball lanes where rags just don’t fit well.3.Change Mill Wipes frequently as they get dirty. As Mill Wax lifts out the grime from your playfield, you don’t want to be smearing that dirt around. The idea is to remove it, not re-distribute it.
4.Once clean, apply a fresh light coat of Mill Wax to the entire playfield and allow to dry thoroughly.
5.Once dry, use a fresh clean Mill Wipes patch or piece of soft cloth, in a circular motion, to buff out to a brilliant long-lasting shine.
6.Repeat frequently to prevent a dirt build up and to lay down a protective coat of wax that both protects your playfield and makes for faster play.
7.HAPPY FLIPPING. Enjoy a great game of pinball as Mill Wax helps protect your playfield from wear and tear.

Okay, no offense, but are you really basing your opinion on the fact that the company trying to sell its product to pinball enthusiasts advertises it as "for pinball" and therefore makes it legitimate?

There are hundreds of discussions on Millwax on the various pinball/arcade sites, going into the chemical composition of Millwax and why it's not a good product for MODERN day pinball use. Opinions from people who have USED the product....I'll tend to trust first hand experience over the ad copy of the manufacturer any day.

Where is your evidence for this? If this was indeed true, Millwax would have been sued into oblivion back in the 80s. Can I send your above quote to the company to get their response because you are making some pretty heavy allegations. They may want a chemist to check this out.

Clay, the repair guide guy.

I trust his experience with it.

LTG

"I'll tend to trust first hand experience over the ad copy of the manufacturer any day."

Ok....BERNARD BEAR (B. B.) KAMOROFF
-Author of Pinball Machine Care and Maintenance, now in its 14th printing, recommends Mill Wax Pinball Playfield Wax and Cleaner.

LMAO....Help yourself. I have to ask. Are you serious with this, or you just pulling all our legs? Your posts are starting to border on comical.

LOL...Yes, how convenient that the Millwax site also likes to use this in their advertisement. Coincidence?

I give up....I'm beginning to believe you are either a great troll or you work for Millwax.

First printed in 1999. 13 years is a long time. Like I said we keep learning better ways to care for our games.

At one time Comet cleanser and water was used, then that smelly orange crap which I don't remember the name - samples came with games for awhile. Then Wildcat. Then Millwax.

And now people have moved onto better products.

And as time passes we'll keep learning better ways to maintain our games.

Use what ever you want. It is okay to evolve and do better.

LTG

I'm starting to feel the "works for".

I certainly don't have the experience that others do, but I've bought and used about half a bottle of Millwax on a few 80's SS games and a System 3. My only complaint is that it's runny and gets into everything. I didn't notice that it put a particularly great shine on any of my machines, nor did it greatly improve gameplay. I probably didn't put as much effort into it as Juggernaut- his machines look incredible!

Millwax was recommended to by by a repair guy that came to my house and did a bit of board work for me. That was quite a while ago. I took his word and bought a bottle from PBL or somewhere similar.

Not to be a butt-kisser, but I really trust what LTG says- especially considering he's a been a part of the pinball fabric for around half a century (?).

I don't plan to throw away my Millwax, but I certainly won't be buying another bottle.

Also, if I found out that millwax was used to maintain a pin I was thinking about purchasing, it would not deter me from purchasing it.

To each his own- but I'll personally be following LTG's recommendations.

I've always wondered if some of the old pins that I bought that had the bottom of the plastic star posts disentegrating, had someone who regularly bathed them in Millwax, with those wonderful petroleum distillates included in the ingredients?

hawkeye is starting to sound like a mill wax commercial.

That stuff is even too strong for the bottle it comes in, drop a bottle that's more than a year or so old, it shatters. Squeeze an old bottle too hard, it shatters.

If it eats through the bottle, why would I put it on my pins?

RobT, LTG, Tunasled, Robertmee and anyone else...

I don't want to be the forum's "Millwax representative" and, no, don't work for them either but in my mind this is someone's business. I agree with what Tony said too. I use Millwax and certainly think they could have added some viscosity to the stuff because the average joe will squirt it on the playfield and it's pretty damn runny. I used it exclusively on my SST and 3 pinsiders have seen it's playfield - Pinballer, Pinraider and Pinatration. Personally I think the playfield cleaned up really good and it looked great. If they think differently they can chime in.

Getting back to this being someone's business...there now has been a number of assertions that Millwax essentially causes a chemical reaction that does a host of playfield problems listed above. That gets spread around and impacts the business negatively. If a chemist were able to say, "if you mix the chemical structure of Millwax with xyz basis of typical playfield then the reaction would compromise xyz on those playfields" then Millwax would and should be liable and the product completely avoided but a lot of what I hear is speculation. How would you react if people were making assertions regarding your business that might not be based in fact or you didn't have the opportunity to respond to?

Is there anyone here who personally used Millwax on a previously intact playfield and watched the damage occur described above? Did you alert Millwax and if so how did they respond? Novus and car wax might work better. One of those products has been marketed to pinball machines (Novus) so they are responsible for damage should it occur. Their also responsible, like Millwax, for ensuring their product isn't defective or again, their liable.

I'm a pretty laid back guy and don't want to be argumentative with fellow pinsiders especially since there's a high probability I find myself in SSbilliards in the future and also buying from others here. I just think if your going to knock a product you have to take care to highlight what is readily observeable about it's defects - runny product for example - rather than some chemical reaction that doesn't seem to have been independently verified.

Look.. I'm just getting back into pins after about 15 years.. I remembered that Hippy used mil wax (& wildcat) back in the day at pinball petes.. Hippy is a true master. so I emulated what I remembered.. No more, no less..
If their is something better, I should probably switch.. LAST thing I want to do is damage my machines..

I was a Marine.. if given time and proper motivation, I can make ANYTHING shine...

Is that a challenge? I've got a bathroom at a rental property that I'm not looking forward to tackling over Memorial Weekend. It's all yours if you're up for a challenge!

Hawkeye....No harm no foul...We're all ultimately here for the same reason...passion for pinball.

However, some of your assertions aren't practical. The breakdown of plastic when exposed to petroleum doesn't occur in front of your eyes. But it does over time. In this thread alone, you've seen two posts by real people as to the probability of millwax affecting plastics. Disintegrated star posts and the millwax bottle itself chemically changing. So to ask someone post that they watched damage occur before their eyes isn't practical.

For the most part, the pinball hobby enthusiasts, at least those who have publicly posted on RGP, Pinside, KLOV, et al have mostly universally panned millwax and any benefits it might offer. All you have to do is google millwax and you'll be presented with dozens and dozens of threads populated by some pretty heavy weight individuals in the pinball world, who vote against its use. We don't need a laboratory or chemist to affirm a ground swell of practical experience and knowledge that says don't use. If it has petroleum in it, it will harm plastics. That's a fact. There's been several past discussions where the MSDS (material data safety sheets) were linked for this product that showed it had petroleum in it. Maybe they've changed formulation since, but why risk it?

Yes, there's the one pinball author that has been a proponent of its use in his book, and Steve Young has promoted it once upon a time on PBR. However, Steve is of the 60's and 70's Gottlieb EM era....Not of the modern day mylared, clear coated, diamond plated playfields.

Pinball machines are expensive toys. Better to air on the side of caution and use what's nearly universally accepted for cleaning: Novus products. And for Waxing: Carnuba's. Why risk using a product that has any controversy surrounding it?

I'm not saying it is bad or can hurt stuff. No personal experience on that.

It's just that there are better products available now that I do use. Because it is for my business.

LTG

I hope you can make the Ruby Goose 40th Anniversary party on September 20th this year.

It would be a pleasure to meet you.

LTG

Do you have folks bring their machines to your Goose parties too? Or is that just for Pinball Circus?

I use Novus 2 with a generous portion of elbow grease and then a good marine wax in several passes. I have no personal experience with Millwax but I have heard to avoid it for years (by reputable sources) so I have no reason to deviate from what I do.

The people bringing in pins ( Bob Hansen was the first with a Black Knight ) started with the Goose parties and continued to the Pinball Circus.

I have no idea on the anniversary party because being it's a huge free event, I can't offer anything to people bringing in games for the day.

So no idea if people will step up and help out or not.

Jersey Jack Pinball has supported many of my events and has made a generous offer for this party.

My efforts to have Stern, owners, or employees attend or be involved have been ignored.

There likely will be media coverage, in the trade magazines and websites too.

So it is going to be a big party. I won't really know on extra machines until after the event.

I do remain hopeful. And plan on covering the pool tables so there is plenty of room.

LTG

Cool.

Well, I plan to be there no matter what! I'd be glad to bring a machine if it will help the party.

Hope to see you soon.

as long as I get to pack an assault rifle & get something bigger than a toothbrush to work with \m/ !

Thanks Tony. That's one extra game for the party !

LTG