Novus 2 and some Carnuba paste wax.

Novus 2 and some Carnuba paste wax.

+1 I use a product in Oz called Mothers 100% Pure Carnuba Wax

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Is there still an issue with Mill wax for pinball machines? I thought they addressed this and made one specifically for pinballs now.

I still like hard paste wax. I wouldn't put Millwax on my car. Not putting it on my pins, either. MM got a nice layer of KIT carnuba tonight.

correct, would like to add that the product i use is not a paste but a hard wax you apply with a damp cloth.

My understanding is that Mill Wax has chemicals in it that can long term be bad for the pins. Pure carnuba wax doesn't have the chemical crap. That was my take anyway.

I've heard Millwax has silicone in it, and no actual wax. The silicone causes problems if you ever want to clear a playfield, and who knows what else? I've been perfectly happy with Novus for cleaning and KIT Carnuba paste for waxing for years, and my pins are all still in great shape, so the evidence I see says what I'm doing has been alright.

I have used it to polish lockdown bars and thrown it in the parts polisher as an additive, but I wouldn't use it on a playfield. It smells like lighter fluid.

I use KIT Carnauba as well. Price is cheap, and the shine is fantastic!

Throw that Millwax in the trash...and don't look back.

I know of alot of people who use Mr.Sheen polish to clean there modern stern playfields!? Anyone else do this? Good? Bad?

hey, milwax is ok for older playfields. i wouldn't touch a DMD with it though.

There's nothing wrong with using millwax to clean any playfield, plastics etc. It does a good job cleaning grime and brightening up your playfield. The only problem I see with it is that is can get runny so apply it to the cleaning pads you can order with it and problem solved. If your a spaz and squirt it directly on the playfield, it may trickle down inserts and then you could have a problem. There is NO concrete evidence I have seen that Millwax is any better or worse than NOVUS or any of the other cleaners out there or that it "takes paint off" or "ruins a playfield". Most of the detractors are basing this on urban myth or probably have only ever used novus. If you believe Millwax is a damaging component to a playfield, please post the evidence.

There's been so much discussion about Millwax on RGP over the past 12 years, including this small sample:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_frm/thread/93d454f9c0beeb18/7c354244aa6f5654?lnk=gst&q=millwax+crap#7c354244aa6f5654

Why take the chance with it if Novus and Carnuba Wax have been doing just fine for me?

I can get this locally

any reason to spend extra to order KIT or is this equivalent?

The only reason I was using KIT is that I saw an article on waxes with the highest carbuba contents, and that KIT wax was up there near the top of the list. If the Mothers is 100% pure carnuba wax, that sounds like a great product and I'd use it. I just wanted to avoid any kind of wax that was a "cleaner wax" that might have solvents of some kind in it.

Millwax does exactly what it is supposed to do - it cleans and waxes the playfied. The RGP posts show a lot of b.s., speculation and flat out misinformation about what it does. It was specifically designed for pinball playfields. They state it will not harm the playfield. Operators and collectors have used it for years. NOVUS was designed for playfields. Car waxes or Granny's gentle beeswax products were NOT designed for playfields. Millwax is used in stages, the first is to clean the grime and the second is to put down a protective coating. If you are just putting wax down you're just smearing over the dirt and dust that's already down in the playfield and just making a dirty game "shiney". If you use some other cleaner to take up the dirt before putting wax down you are operating at your own risk if that cleaner is not advertised for cleaning pins period, end of story. Show me one instance of millwax being properly applied that resulted in paint or decals being lifted off the playfield where the playfield condition wasn't already compromised.

Well I went to autozone and they had something different so I passed, see image. I already have mill wax here. Truly wish this was a cut and dry issue. i certainly don't want to damage any of these pins.

wax1.jpg

Are you in any way affiliated with Millwax, Hawkeyepin?

Just giving you a hard time Hawkeyepin, LOL. If you like Millwax, that's fine.

Still kinda curious about this topic.

I just used Mill Wax on mine from Mad Amusements. Turned out pretty beautiful to me - and that ball is gliding like a mo-fo.

However, I don't want to damage my playfield in the long term.

My playfield is clearcoated. Does that make a difference?

I have Millwax and have not used it yet. I'm still using Novus 2 and it looks great!

Millwax is for NON-Cleared playfields. It is used on the EM's back in the day before clearcoat came into effect. all i know is dont use it around mylar as it causes the mylar to lift and dont use it on plastic ramps or any plastic's in general, use Novus # 1&2 for this. Simple Green to clean, Novus to polish, and KIT carnauba to wax and protect. For $6 for a yellow tub of KIT you can't go wrong.

novus is not a cleaner, its a polisher.

I've been using MillWax for about a year or so, and was unaware of the controversy. Cleans my playfields real nice and hasn't damaged a thing.......yet.

I don't know if the warnings on millwax are true or b.s. I do know this though. Novus and carnauba wax are safe, proven and cheap so why chance it. Go with the time tested proven product and have no worries. Do you want to be the guy who proves millwax is bad for pins? I know I don't.

pinballkim what does your bottle of millwax look like?

Tag; good stuff in here. Thx.

It doesn't matter if it is bad or not.

We just keep learning to take better care of our pins.

First was comet cleanser and water. Then that awful smelling orange crap. Then Wildcat. Then Millwax.

Now it's Novus 2 and Carnauba wax.

Millwax works great for the blue playfield window on Black Hole.

I'm just not a fan of combo products, It's a cleaner and a wax. And things like this usually don't do a good job of both. You just smear dirt around and polish it.

And it isn't wax, it is silicone. In case you wonder how to ever clean it off later.

LTG

I just pulled out a bottle of Mill Wax that I've never used that is probably 6 years old. Front label says "Pinball playfield wax and cleaner", "one step wax polish, cleans.waxes.protects", "CAUTION: keep away from children".
Noteworthy on back label is:
* does not clarify anything about which types of playfields/coatings are acceptable to use it on.
* contains: aliphatic hydrocarbons, water, silica, kerosene, and dimethylpolysiloxane.
Definitely keep this one away from kids. I don't recommend snorting it either.

Thanks for all of the good posts by all on this topic.

SHOULD I NOT USE IT ON A CLEARCOATED PLAYFIELD?

Read the posts and decide for yourself.

( I wouldn't, there are better products these days )

LTG

I agree, you are probably better off going with something that is not a cleaner and 'wax' combo. I usually clean the field off with Novus 1 then hit it up with some carnuba paste wax and that has worked out pretty well for me.

Mill Wax.... (ETA: on old EM's... '75 & older.)

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I use my Millwax on a 1997 table. It takes the grime off and leaves a clear protective polish. It has not lifted any mylar whatsoever. I use it on ramps and it pulls the dirt right off and leaves it on the cleaning clothes that come with it. I do not find it merely pushes dirt around. Quite the opposite. Millwax has evolved as one would want it to after 1975. It's specifically made for pinball machines like Novus is. Simple green and car wax do not have this on their labels that I am aware of. Do those other products work? Don't know. I'm not going to risk cleaning my machines with things designed to clean off countertops and wax metal on cars. Mylar gets lifted for a variety of reasons not associated with Millwax or it would have been discontinued a long time ago. Imagine a car wax that was shown to remove automobile paint. That company would have been sued to oblivion. Millwax does what it's supposed to do in my experience. Cleans and polishes playfields and plastics. Novus does too but requires more steps and more product.

To each their own guys it's all good.

I've used Millwax for years on all types and era of games. Nothing bad has ever happened. It does not lift Mylar at all. Sheesh!
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If you are new to pinball ownership, you need a Novus 123 kit (get the 8oz kit, not the pimpy 2oz), and then some kind of hard paste wax to follow up with. That's it. Simple.

They still sell Wildcat. There are combo auto cleaners, you look at the rag when you are done and you see your car color on the rag, they take off a layer of finish.

Stuff doesn't get discontinued because it's bad or doesn't work.

LTG

what's wrong with Wildcat rubber cleaner? uh oh!
it was recommended to me and so far has worked great for doing its job of cleaning rubbers.

It eats plastic. Be careful around plastic posts, playfield plastics, mylar, etc. etc.

LTG

Flippman, try some Novus on the rubbers, you'll like its results...I'm with the majority here, Novus#2 and Carnuba wax

So what was the consensus on Mill Wax? Did we ever find our what was best on a clearcoat?

Judging by the MSDS on Novus 2, the same should apply: http://na.suzohapp.com/msds_sheets/25-1331-00.pdf

And those of you crying out because Mills wax has Silicone in it need to see what's in Novus 2.
Silica, Amorphous, Diatomaceous Earth: hhtp://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_266690.html

Do you even understand what those ingredients mean?

Diatomaceous Earth is powderized, fossilized algae. Silica and Amorphous are adjectives that describe what type of fossilized algae makes up that particular "blend" of DE.

Everything in Novus is to basically make a solution out of the DE powder.

The silicone in mill-wax is the issue, a chemical that is completely absent from Novus 2.

Just because silicone and silica are spelled similar, it does not mean they are the same thing.

Do YOU understand? It's Still silicone of a form. Do you know what form of Silicone (if it is in it) is Mill Wax? Maybe it's the same thing. "Silicone in Mill wax is the issue" Just a way people bash a product without any backing. BTW: Read the labels on the back of Novus 2 and 3. Says right on the label "Abrasive"

I'd worry about using an abrasive polish intended for plastic regularly over a product designed specifically for play-fields without concrete evidence that it's bad. It seems popular to bash Mills Wax with these claims without real proof, and say Novus is better without seeing what's in it.

Just... wow...

Hey Girloveswaffles,

Here's a recent thread about polish:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-can-i-polish-my-playfield-to-the-mirror-shine-some-of-you-guys-get

In the above noted thread, a guy describes his experience with Millwax:

I figured I might point this out, so you could pop into that thread to defend Millwax.

Novus2 is Paintable. that means you can paint on a surface, without problems, after you have used Novus2. Millwax is *not* paintable due to silicone. That's the issue as I see it. Because once Millwax is on a playfield, you have to jump through hoops to get a clearcoat to stick to that playfield.

The other issue i have with Millwax is the name, which implies it has wax. There is NO wax in Millwax, just silicone and (basically) Novus2 combined, using a really smelly pet dist solvent (which irritates my hands), and installed in a bottle that likes to crack and explode. Since the name "Millwax" implies something it is not, on that fact alone, i refuse to use the product. Add to that the difficulty in doing a clearcoat in the future on a Millwax'ed playfield, and i think there's *much* better approaches to cleaning a playfield.

Also if i want to "wax" my playfield, i would indeed want to use a wax, not silicone. Silicone gives NO benefits that wax does. All it does is "slime" the surface, essentially like a really sticky oil. Wax does not work like that - it fills the microscopic flaws in the playfield, making for a more level and smooth surface. This helps deter wear. Having "oil" on a playfield doesn't do that. Hence it's better to use Novus2 for the polishing, and then either stop or wax with a genuine wax.

I am amazed that this keeps coming up here time and time again. OK...let's pretend that there isn't any proof what-so-ever that Millwax is the devil. Just the mere fact that there is a question in peoples mind should be enough to steer people away from it when there is a perfectly good, known to be safe and effective alternative (Novus + Carnuba wax). Why would you use something that even MIGHT be bad for your beloved, multi-thousand dollar, pride and joy machines? Just to be devils advocate even if you are risking damage? I don't know about you guys. I don't need proof (even though there seems to be plenty!)...just the fact that there is a question about it is enough for me to steer clear of the stuff. Clay's advice just cements it.

It's looking more and more like those that argue that Millwax is good, even with all of the questions and known issues, almost have to work for the company that makes it. I just can't wrap my mind around why else this would even be an argument anymore.

If you want to use something other than Novus and Carnuba wax on your machine, be my guest. I just hope you don't ruin a game I might want someday. In the mean time I'll keep using what 95% of the pinball community agrees is safe and works very well.