So I tried turning my tube around and it cut my mis fires down to just two or three times per game.
Obviously this tube is where my problems stem from.
I'm not calling it good until it fires every time without fail.
The overall length of the tube is exactly 16", but it feels too long. The coil isn't as long as the tube, it's 4" shorter, so 2" lead on each side, pretty sure this is where the problem is.
A clear tube would be ideal, then you could tell exactly where the ball catches.
On the hunt.
B
Me and ZooDude have been working through our issues together!
I pulled the hopper and compressor and bench tested and concluded that there's not enough pressure coming out to blast the ball.
It just sits in there and spins. There was also air leaking from the gasket.
Looking closer at the diagram I can see I confused the gaskets!
First off, I used a rubber gasket material which I learned I should be using a paper style.
I also thought it went between the head and the cylinder (body) and that's incorrect.
In the head part there are 4 screws which remove the head to reveal the gasket.
A similar style compressor shown here at 8:06
Mine is STUCK. I am soaking it in evaporust overnight, the youtube guy had a good idea to blast compressed air in there (ironic) to separate it.
Forgot to mention I also repaired the line cord, one of the crimp butts just came loose, soldered and heat shrinked it.
Always learning something new!
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngThe evaporust did the trick, banged it on the bench and the head came apart.
Sure enough, there was an ancient paper gasket stuck on there.
Some goo gone and elbow grease with a metal scraper and green 3M pad for a half hour and I got it all cleaned off.
Cut out a new gasket with some 1/32" paper gasket material from AutoZone, scanned and traced it on the computer and cut it out with the Silhuoette Cameo.
The Cameo blade was only so thick so had to finish it up with a razor.
The top reed was a little corroded and a little bent, carefully bent it back flat and cleaned up.
The compressor certainly felt like it had more pressure!
I also ever so slightly sanded the ball loading side of the hopper to allow the new 0.5" balls to fall into the slot.
Took it out to the garage and tested it and it certainly seems to have more pressure. But still not enough!
The air hose had a crack and missing plastic on the compression fitting which probably isn't helping me, going to replace it to be sure.
I also feel like the gun is too far set back, causing a bend in the tube which isn't helping.
Going to experiment with the new tubing when it gets here and see what I can fanagle, may have to go right to the Bally gun which is a little more set forward.
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Put on new airline and compression fittings to realize there just isn't enough pressure coming from the compressor.
Even holding down the reservoir pin I'm getting about 30 psi max when the manual calls for 45.
Took it all apart again to clean everything again.
This time I got off the eccentric bearing and piston and cleaned all that, sanded and cleaned the motor commutator also.
Took apart the head to inspect the reed to find that it has a hairline crack through it!
Ordered some reed material and will remake my own.
After doing a bunch of research on compressors it seems pretty universal and simple.
The diaphragm is thankfully in good shape, I sanded and cleaned the edge where it sits this time.
I want this finished up!
Hooked a real compressor up to it, dialed in 45 psi and balls are shooting great.
Decided to give up on this dated one (for now).
Got this compressor on FB marketplace for $50 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M33C8MV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_JZ4SM2YXZHMX9Z02FRZ7
It's small (will fit inside the game), quiet, and has a 0.7L tank.
I had also printed a test print in PETG of the ball hopper housing.
I had made it a block to prevent flimsy feet breaking off but forgot about the spring clearance.
Was a good smoke test anyways, the little spring insert was massively leaking.
The plate that holds the spring I drilled off, but the rest was perfect!
If I can get it to seal properly, I feel it would perform well! May have to wait to get access to a resin printer.
Putzed with the little spring loaded gasket and got the body sealing well and building up pressure and the gun shooting well!
Decided to take a detour and model up the gun, should I want to use the barrel from the original gun I found in the cabinet.
The Bally Marksman barrel was too wide, so also thinking of 3D printing an insert to bring down the barrel size and will see what works best.
This is pretty incredible work. I just need you to have some extra time to do a few more of these shooters.
I've been putzing around with various compressors I got on FB marketplace.
First - an airbrush compressor with a good size tank on it. Compressor couldn't keep up.
Second was a used compact "dental" compressor, it was fairly complex and was oil based. I got it to fit inside the cabinet but only sideways and then it wasn't consistently staying on.
I remember seeing that Harbor Freight has a 1 gallon compressor that just barely works. Found a brand new one locally for $100 vs. $150ish from the store. It's very quiet, comes to pressure quickly, and handles rapid fire no problem! It still has to sit on it's side, but it works great!
Now to figure out why the target knockdown relay is stuck on...
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Next up is to finish making a new control panel and mount the other guns!
I have both the original Bally gun with my barrel inserts to keep the ball straight, plus the 3D printed gun I made with the barrel from the original gun I found in the game.
When mounting the gun, I tried to center it above the ball hopper so the path for the ball is as straight as can be.
This is the tubing I'm currently using, it's very nice! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0966XQBRZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
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Quoted from dudah:This didn't fix my score reel issue but I'm glad I did it
[quoted image]
You're going to have to explain to me what's going on here.
Progress! Very cool Kevin, I've been busy with life/business/art and haven't gotten back into mine, but I did get that same anti kink tubing and it works.....ok, mines 5/8 ID and me thinks it's just a bit too wide, but now I'm back to thinking my compressor needs help too, so it's nice to see what you've tried.
I'll post some updates soon.
B
Quoted from ZooDude:Progress! Very cool Kevin, I've been busy with life/business/art and haven't gotten back into mine, but I did get that same anti kink tubing and it works.....ok, mines 5/8 ID and me thinks it's just a bit too wide, but now I'm back to thinking my compressor needs help too, so it's nice to see what you've tried.
I'll post some updates soon.
B
After EXHAUSTING this with a variety of tubings and compressors, I've deducted the tubing must be as straight as possible, anything you can do to prevent a kink the better. The firm/wire lined tube I posted above worked the best out of the 5ish samples I tried. If you think it's the tubing, it's probably a weak compressor. Slight bends in the tube can be overcome with more pressure. Per the manual I have mine dialed in at 45 PSI but easily adjustable with the modern regulated compressor.
Quoted from edward472:You're going to have to explain to me what's going on here.
I replaced the ancient diode/capacitor with modern equivalents
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngI have a problem where the score kept going up and hits kept registering. Unplugging the Jones plug for the targets/motors fixed it so let's look there.
Noticed some burn marks on the bakelite board.
Taking a closer look at how the targets make contact, disassembled all the target boards and noticed they were filty and had 2 burnt traces.
In my experience, the carbon from these traces will only get worse over time, could possibly start a fire!
Cleaned everything, filed down the burn spots with a dremel, filled in with 2 part epoxy and did my best to level it.
Barely noticed on one of the target boards there was no solder holding in the wire!
We will see if this fixes it!
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Thanks so much for documenting all of this. I recently picked up a White Lightning that I was told was working but was in pieces due to the person moving. I’ll be moving myself in a couple months and then I’ll be working on putting it together and this thread will really help. I appreciate it!
Finally getting back to mine, been working on it a bit here and there but now I'm fully off to the races. Tore everything apart completely, am cleaning, tumbling all the hardware, full restore and repaint on the cabinet, all new plastic and (hopefully) art.
I ended up contacting the original pump manufacturer who is still in business (Thomas industries, Sheboygan Wi) to ask about replacement pumps, they were kind enough to point me to their model 927CA-18, managed to track a new one down and dam if it isn't the exact same size as the original, the baseplate and bolt pattern are exactly the same!! So I'm pretty happy about that. Really wanted to keep mine as close to original as possible and this feels pretty close.
Now I've got to deal with the art, I guess I need to scan, clean up and have reprinted all of the art pieces as they all have minor damage and mold. I guess I'll try to find someone in the city (SF) who can help.
Pretty excited to finally get this sucker done
B
It's great seeing these older machines getting the attention and care they deserve.
Also love seeing the inner workings of these. Not a computer chip in sight.
Quoted from ZooDude:Finally getting back to mine
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So nice they still make them! What pressure can it generate? I'd love to have an OEM setup if it provides good pressure for rapid shots.
They are pricey new, but seem to pop up on eBay here and there for chepaer, even the rebuild kit is expensive! https://store.teledyneisco.com/products/ww391
Looking at Zookeepers post had me re-thinking my compressor, I will eventually rebuild mine as I'd love it to be original.
Service kit part number SK927
Manual - https://portal.thomasnow.com/portal/page/portal/thomas_now_content/TNC_Service_Kits_PDFs/SK927.pdf
Prices are ALL over online, but I've found it for around $60
An interesting twist with the THREE different gun solutions I have:
The original WL barrel I found in the game crammed inside my 3D printed repro gun - I tested it and it was shooting OK, then very inconsistently with multiple balls, then not at all. I took it apart and there is at least 1 ball stuck in the bottom entrance part. Need to get the barrel straightened out.
I put the big ass Exidy gun back on because it's on it's own board and easy. I can swap them out in just a couple minutes. It shoots like a champ and the compressor works well.
The Bally Marksman metal gun with my 3D printed barrel insert to match the ball size - it was shooting pretty well, but the the balls curve like crazy! My guess is it was printed vertically so is concentric rings on top of each other. Reprinted one lying down to get long lines instead and it's much better! Nice firm friction fit and flush with the width of the barrel. You'd never know it was in there.
If I get ambitious I'll make one with a spiral pattern like you would find in a real barrel.
A few targets aren't registering hits, but otherwise it's playing great!
Calling this one done, thanks for following along!
Moved to a new house with a bigger basement recently! Also got an Escalara. Deconstructed all the main pieces out and took her inside! Laying down some wood hardener on the inside of the cabinet and back door. May just cut a new back door out of ply. Looking forward to getting her assembled and shooting!
IMG_4128 (resized).jpegA couple modifications!
First, the compressor kept tripping the internal breaker. I am guessing this was due to the extra amperage pull and only so much being able to be delivered through the switch contact and old socket.
My solution - use the factory socket to trigger a solid state relay.
Ran a new power line with ground dedicated to the compressor.
Upgraded to an IEC power connector in the back.
Left it dangling as I'd eventually like to replace the back door with solid plywood.
I noticed that the score reels had a hard time resetting.
After some troubleshooting I saw that the tack welds from the score motor plate to the top plate became undone.
I don't have any welding gear so I disassembled the score reel assembly and JB Welded it back together.
Using some interesting tools (a hospital eating tray and some cocktail arcade stools) were just the right hight to hold it.
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