(Topic ID: 11442)

Middle Earth 5 bank target not reseting after all are down.

By 58Special

7 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by robertmee
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


Linked Games

#1 7 years ago

First post, first pinball game, first time fixing one.
The left hand bank of 5 targets will not reset itself after all are down or when
you start a new ball. you have to manually lift the targets back up.
The coil is ok Swapped it with other side. Wire back to circuit board is ok.
When all 5 targets are down score just continues to climb.

1 week later
#2 7 years ago

Anyone have any thoughts or repair tips

#3 7 years ago

First, do the Drop targets register points? does the game know they were hit? is what I'm asking

I would check the 5 drop mech and see if all those switch's wires are still connected. If they are, make sure the targets are activating them when knocked down.

#4 7 years ago

Yes the targets are registering points . thats one of the problems.once all 5 are down the score will run up continueously until I manuelly pull them back up.

#5 7 years ago

sorta sounds like a switch not gapped properly in the assembly or a bad/loose diode at the switches.

#6 7 years ago

The whole assembly works fine when I swap it to the other side of the board and vice versa. so I don't think it's the switches.

1 week later
#7 7 years ago

switches don't have diods on them, they are I presume on the PCB. Does this mean that the boards need to be repaired?

#8 7 years ago

Have you put the game into switch test mode and individually dropped each target to see what registers?

#9 7 years ago

Yes just did switch test mode all switches are ok except one coin switch. On solenoid test it the solenoid for that drop target doesn't activate.

#10 7 years ago

Not too familiar with Atari's, but if it has a standard TIP transistor for turning on the coil, have you tried testing the coil transistor by grounding the metal tab to see if the coil fires?

#11 7 years ago

Okay, downloaded manual....Pretty crappy....But anyway, they are 2n6044 transistors which are TIP102 equivalents...Upper target bank is Q5, lower Q16 (Don't know which one you're working on)...With the game on, use a test jumper and BRIEFLY ground the metal tab on Q5/Q16 and see if the coil fires.

Also, before doing that, make sure you have power at the coil. With your meter on DCV, put your red lead on the coil lug with the banded side of the diode and the black lead to a ground. Should have voltage.

#12 7 years ago

Thanks robertmee. followed every thing through. it was the lower Q16 . 2n6044 transister is fried on the board. The manuel says there is supposed to be a special minuiture PCB assembly that provides individual fuses for each solenoid line.(Part # A020383) that is not there, maybe never was.

Now why did it happen. If I get the board fixed how do I Know it won't happed again.Or better yet
how can I make sure it does't happen again.

#13 7 years ago

Most common cause is diode on coil goes bad and back emf takes out transistor. That or coil itself shorted. That's why its recommended to replace transistor diode and coil together.

#14 7 years ago

I am probably to blame . I am guessing that when I replaced the targets after cleaning, I probably reversed the leads. Still an not sure which lead goes to which terminal . Scared to touch them. I've removede the bunrt transister, Now I'll have to find a new one and some coil diods.

#15 7 years ago

Yeah, if you had the diode in backwards that would do it to. Remember the banded side of the diode goes to power, the non-banded side goes to the ground which comes from the MPU.

#16 7 years ago

Now this may come as a stupid statement at this point, but how do you determine what on the board is ground and what is power. A stupid question is a lot better than a stupid mistake.
Already made one of those.

#17 7 years ago

When you look at the coil, the power side will usually have two wires going back to the playfield, the ground will be a single wire (there may be other wires that jumper off through EOS switches at the coil....talking about wires that leave and go elsewhere). Most times the ground wires are two color (green, yellow stripe for example) and the power wire is solid. The ground wire will go back to the MPU. The power wire will jumper to the next solenoid, hence why it has two wires on it (one in, one out). Also, look at another coil for reference. Lastly, you can take a meter, and putting one lead to the ground strap in the game cabinet, the other lead on the coil lugs, one lug will read ~50VDC (that's the power), the other one shouldn't read much of anything (that's the ground side, currently floating as the MPU isn't sending ground to turn on the coil).

#18 7 years ago

Ok thanks. Seams to be reversed on the stripe verses the solid conducters, and not always consitant. That's not a big problem who knows how many wires have been changed early on.
Can't find any specific ground strapfor testing purposes. Can I use the ground off the primary side of the transformer or should I stick to a ground on the secondary side. Can't seam to find any ground markings on any off the boards. Probably easy for someone who is more familiar with electronic stuff, but I'm just used to working with 120/240V AC stuff.

#19 7 years ago

There should be a braided ground strap in the head as well as in the cabinet....You can use that for the reference.

#20 7 years ago

No braided strap anywhere.Thanks again for all the help

#21 7 years ago

Well, Atari is a strange bird....How about the boards? Most of them, the mounting screws are grounded. You should see a large trace running around the perimeter of the board, going through each screw mounting hole. The trace will be covered in green masking, except at the mounting holes where the silver conducting surface should be exposed.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from 58Special:

I am probably to blame . I am guessing that when I replaced the targets after cleaning, I probably reversed the leads. Still an not sure which lead goes to which terminal . Scared to touch them. I've removede the bunrt transister, Now I'll have to find a new one and some coil diods.

Reversing cool leads always results in blown board components.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Reversing cool leads always results in blown board components.

I assume you meant reversing the leads w/ respect to the diode. Reversing leads on the coil itself as long as the diode is correct w/ respect to power/gnd does nothing. Coils aren't polarity sensitive.

#24 7 years ago

Thanks robertmee for the grounding info, that is what I suspected but was unsure and did not want to do any more damage.

Quoted from markmon:

, Reversing cool leads always results in blown board components.

Yep found out the hard way. Just advised another middle earth noobie to make sure he dosent repeat my screw-up.

#25 7 years ago

Well the board is fixed. Picked up the parts today, one transister and a couple of diodes. Ten minutes to solder them in place. Finally I put the glass back on, and played a game the way it is supposed to be played. Almost every thing works now. one bank off lights is intermitant.but that souldn't be to tough to figure out.
Thanks robertmee for all the help, getting a noobie pointed in the right direction.

#26 7 years ago

No problem....enjoy your game

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