Greenfield, WI
I plan on bringing at least 2 machines. Not 100% set on which ones yet. Leaning towards Meteor and The Getaway at the moment, but subject to change.
(Topic ID: 260778)
Quoted from Whysnow:I think last year (with a million NIB show games) may be a hindrance on this year?
I know I was somewhat waiting to see show deals before deciding on what to bring as a second game. The show deals are not as appealing as a price from past years, and nothing new so I did not jump in.
That means the community needs to really step up and decide on what to bring to make this show as awesome as it has ever been.
Without 50+ Stern and the 100+ games kingpin brought (along w Troy) then we have big holes to fill.
Being honest, I do think last year's NIB thing is affecting us in a weird way. The biggest thing is that as of right now, with the exception of Stern, we do not have any games available from anyone that wasn't available at last year's show. JJP's most recent game is Wonka, Chicago Gaming's is Monster Bash, and American's is Oktoberfest. That isn't to say that any of them are bad games, just that we always see that games that have been out longer see a decrease in demand a year later. The next round of games is being influenced by factors outside of basically everyone's control with the extension of the Chinese New Year thanks to coronavirus concerns being perhaps the largest unknown on exactly what is going on.
Based on conversations I've had, I still expect there to be a solid representation of new games from manufacturers, but I expect that it will be closer to the prior year when we had about 50 than last year when we had 100 NIB machines for play. And, what is crazy is this number could change a lot, based on these uncontrollable factors.
The good news is that we have plans already to cover whatever shortfall here happens - not with NIB machines, but with machines for play in one way or another. However, we're short on collector games - which as I stated in the other thread, has happened at this point in the show before and we've been fine, but it's making me put out the call today... If you're planning on bringing something, please do register it! Even if it changes, I'd like to know so that we can properly plan for whatever will be there.
If things come together *juuuuuuust* right, this will be a REALLY exciting year. If they don't, it'll still be an ultra fun year.
I do understand that some people have had concerns about the game move-out scenario from last year. I typed up before how we intend to fix this for this year, and have worked with the Center for the plan already. Everything appears solid, and we expect an incredible improvement on this on our end. If anyone wants to talk more specifically about this, I'm happy to fully explain the plan to see if there are any other ideas that we need to look at to improve it even further.
Hope to see you up here! 
(Going to add this, I realize the point I started to make I never did. What I think is going on is because we haven't had many new game announcements, we have more people than ever waiting to see what is announced before committing to *anything*. It's less that we had 100 NIB machines last year, and more that we have only had Stern announce new games since then that would have any availability in my opinion. And, since Stern's most recent announcements have been vault editions of already existing games, while they have had three great releases since last year's MGC, I think people are more focused on "what's next" at the moment than they were last year. And, thanks to the above stuff, at this point, no one FULLY knows what is next.)
Quoted from goatdan:Being honest, I do think last year's NIB thing is affecting us in a weird way. The biggest thing is that as of right now, with the exception of Stern, we do not have any games available from anyone that wasn't available at last year's show. JJP's most recent game is Wonka, Chicago Gaming's is Monster Bash, and American's is Oktoberfest. That isn't to say that any of them are bad games, just that we always see that games that have been out longer see a decrease in demand a year later. The next round of games is being influenced by factors outside of basically everyone's control with the extension of the Chinese New Year thanks to coronavirus concerns being perhaps the largest unknown on exactly what is going on.
Based on conversations I've had, I still expect there to be a solid representation of new games from manufacturers, but I expect that it will be closer to the prior year when we had about 50 than last year when we had 100 NIB machines for play. And, what is crazy is this number could change a lot, based on these uncontrollable factors.
The good news is that we have plans already to cover whatever shortfall here happens - not with NIB machines, but with machines for play in one way or another. However, we're short on collector games - which as I stated in the other thread, has happened at this point in the show before and we've been fine, but it's making me put out the call today... If you're planning on bringing something, please do register it! Even if it changes, I'd like to know so that we can properly plan for whatever will be there.
If things come together *juuuuuuust* right, this will be a REALLY exciting year. If they don't, it'll still be an ultra fun year.
I do understand that some people have had concerns about the game move-out scenario from last year. I typed up before how we intend to fix this for this year, and have worked with the Center for the plan already. Everything appears solid, and we expect an incredible improvement on this on our end. If anyone wants to talk more specifically about this, I'm happy to fully explain the plan to see if there are any other ideas that we need to look at to improve it even further.
Hope to see you up here!
(Going to add this, I realize the point I started to make I never did. What I think is going on is because we haven't had many new game announcements, we have more people than ever waiting to see what is announced before committing to *anything*. It's less that we had 100 NIB machines last year, and more that we have only had Stern announce new games since then that would have any availability in my opinion. And, since Stern's most recent announcements have been vault editions of already existing games, while they have had three great releases since last year's MGC, I think people are more focused on "what's next" at the moment than they were last year. And, thanks to the above stuff, at this point, no one FULLY knows what is next.)
Well said Dan. I have registered by email with Keith but was still thinking of getting a new Stern. With the new tax law and Stern's production schedule making less exciting games available at a higher price I have kind of lost interest in that. I assume that may be the same with others.
Last year the bar was set on new games and I don't know that we will ever see that again. Maybe have multiple Stern distributors supply the NIB games to spread out their total sales as a way to deal with the new law?
Quoted from RustyLizard:Well said Dan. I have registered by email with Keith but was still thinking of getting a new Stern. With the new tax law and Stern's production schedule making less exciting games available at a higher price I have kind of lost interest in that. I assume that may be the same with others.
Last year the bar was set on new games and I don't know that we will ever see that again. Maybe have multiple Stern distributors supply the NIB games to spread out their total sales as a way to deal with the new law?
The tax law is only one part of it. And, quite frankly, it's hitting at the exact wrong moment too, turning a year where there is nothing super new and exciting into one with some additional unknowns.
I mean, and this is no knock on Stern, but the most recent game to run down the line that are available are Iron Man. Don't get me wrong, Iron Man is my favorite game ever, but if you were super excited about Iron Man, you probably already have one. Also, in the last year, Stern only has available Jurassic Park - which is a great game but came out in summer, so a lot of people already got them - and Stranger Things.
How I look at that is we basically always had two hot games leading into whatever happened around April, which happened to line up with two new machines on prior years. JP is great but it was long ago enough I feel like we really just have one now in Stranger Things.
And last year, every other manufacturer had a new hot game. This year, the games are still great, but those who really wanted one probably already pulled the trigger last year.
The tax changes probably serve to depress demand on not-as-in-demand games even slightly further, leading to a period where buyers and everyone adjusts to the change that will be too. This could be easier to overcome if there were new super exciting titles but alas, no one knows when that will be.
It's a strange, strange year for so many reasons, and this is just another one.
Stranger Things indeed.
Quoted from kcZ:What are the tax law changes? I thought that went into effect last year?
States are working to close loopholes and assess sales tax on all interstate trade. Before, machine purchases were able to work through a legal loophole. The loophole was closed after the show last year.
Well, mostly. The problem is States have basically started passing laws stating that out of state businesses need to comply with sales tax code in the state (and sometimes even local area), but the onus is on the individual companies that have not been informed by those states of the change directly, nor is there a simple way set up for small businesses to do it properly.
At some point, a case is going to end up at the Supreme Court about this placing an undue burden on interstate trade, and the companies should win it over the states. Until then, it's a ton of confusion.
By the way, I feel compelled to add that I think that people shouldn't be able to avoid taxes by buying online. I also do think a lot of people weren't claiming use tax. But... This is not the way to do it.
Because of this, the perception is there is an added cost to the purchase of machines this year that wasn't there before, thus adding to the depressed market.
Oh, and to be clear, I think the law changed officially last year, but it was after the show so it did not affect us.
I'm considering bringing a game for the first time. Do I have to bring it Friday or can I wheel it in Saturday morning? What works the best? Also, what tools do I need to bring in case of a breakdown? Soldering iron, dmm, etc?
Quoted from Friengineer:I'm considering bringing a game for the first time. Do I have to bring it Friday or can I wheel it in Saturday morning? What works the best? Also, what tools do I need to bring in case of a breakdown? Soldering iron, dmm, etc?
Following these step-by-step instructions to bring a game or games to the show! between 10am and 10pm on Friday, April 3rd or between 8am-9:30am on Saturday, April 4th.
Game removal times are expected to be Saturday, April 4th from 7pm-8pm or Sunday from 5pm-11pm.
I might bring a game as well. I'd need to take it at the end of Saturday night but was hoping that might still appease the pinball gods.
Quoted from Friengineer:I'm considering bringing a game for the first time. Do I have to bring it Friday or can I wheel it in Saturday morning? What works the best? Also, what tools do I need to bring in case of a breakdown? Soldering iron, dmm, etc?
Last year I brought mine Saturday morning. Just make sure you get there early so you can get it dropped off, parked, setup, etc. I think I was there like 1.5 or 2 hours before show open. They will tell you when you sign up (make sure you tell them your plan so they know). Tools, well, that depends. I hate when machines go down and get turned off, so I brought a ton of extra parts and a soldering iron. I wanted to be prepared. But there are other people there that have that stuff too usually, so if you ask around, you would probably find something. I ended up not needing any of the stuff I brought for my 2 pins, but better to be safe then sorry is my feeling. Make sure you stay around saturday night, its way more fun to play then since its only game bringers 
Quoted from goatdan:States are working to close loopholes and assess sales tax on all interstate trade. Before, machine purchases were able to work through a legal loophole. The loophole was closed after the show last year.
Well, mostly. The problem is States have basically started passing laws stating that out of state businesses need to comply with sales tax code in the state (and sometimes even local area), but the onus is on the individual companies that have not been informed by those states of the change directly, nor is there a simple way set up for small businesses to do it properly.
At some point, a case is going to end up at the Supreme Court about this placing an undue burden on interstate trade, and the companies should win it over the states. Until then, it's a ton of confusion.
By the way, I feel compelled to add that I think that people shouldn't be able to avoid taxes by buying online. I also do think a lot of people weren't claiming use tax. But... This is not the way to do it.
Because of this, the perception is there is an added cost to the purchase of machines this year that wasn't there before, thus adding to the depressed market.
Oh, and to be clear, I think the law changed officially last year, but it was after the show so it did not affect us.
I talked to the distributor who is bringing games to the show. He told me flat out that they are limiting the number of games to stay below a threshold. the price increase is real. On a Stern Pro the price is up about $180 from last year and that isn't tax.
Quoted from RustyLizard:I talked to the distributor who is bringing games to the show. He told me flat out that they are limiting the number of games to stay below a threshold.
That would be their choice then. That is not directed by Stern.
Quoted from goatdan:That would be their choice then. That is not directed by Stern.
Agreed. That's why I suggested multiple distributors.
I plan on bringing ghost in the shell and co-brining a second custom game. We have been working with Dan to get a nice homebrew section setup.. as soon as we name it. There will be an annoucement hopefully in the next week or so. I have asked everyone to still register with Keith for a count. This is going to be a great year for the custom and homebrew game setup with over 10 games.
Quoted from RustyLizard:I talked to the distributor who is bringing games to the show. He told me flat out that they are limiting the number of games to stay below a threshold. the price increase is real. On a Stern Pro the price is up about $180 from last year and that isn't tax.
Quoted from goatdan:That would be their choice then. That is not directed by Stern.
That's a bummer for us attending the show to play the games.
Quoted from RustyLizard:Agreed. That's why I suggested multiple distributors.
Might be too late for this year, but something to consider for next year. The idea is to expand the pinball at the show and not to contract. It will still be a fun show for us to go to.
Quoted from KingBW:That's a bummer for us attending the show to play the games.
Might be too late for this year, but something to consider for next year. The idea is to expand the pinball at the show and not to contract. It will still be a fun show for us to go to.
We will populate the show with games from our collections and there will still be many new games there, just not like last year.
Collingwood, ON
Quoted from KingBW:That's a bummer for us attending the show to play the games.
Might be too late for this year, but something to consider for next year. The idea is to expand the pinball at the show and not to contract. It will still be a fun show for us to go to.
I have never tried "contracting" pinball at the show. As I noted, there were certain things that played very positively into the game count last year, and we have a number of those that won't repeat.
This doesn't mean that I or anyone else want less and there is still a pretty significant number of NIB games coming.
Just a reminder to those that are bringing games to the MGC - check your electrical plugs to make sure they are properly grounded. Games newer that ~1975 should have 3 prongs on the power cord. Often, the ground prong was ripped off due to older outlets. These games MUST be grounded for safety in case of an accidental short circuit. Hardware stores sell replacement plugs. Ohm out cord to the service outlet to make sure the replacement cord is wired correctly - we also run into cases where the hot and neutral wires are accidentally swapped.
Additionally, if you have you pins in a row, turn them on and use a voltmeter on the AC setting and check voltage between lockdown bars. If you measure between 30 and 120 volts, that means there is an issue with one of the games.
Quoted from goatdan:I have never tried "contracting" pinball at the show. As I noted, there were certain things that played very positively into the game count last year, and we have a number of those that won't repeat.
This doesn't mean that I or anyone else want less and there is still a pretty significant number of NIB games coming.
Grow, grow, grow ...
FYI, and yes it's really just a "technically", the law didn't change. The Supreme Court reversed/changed a prior ruling/legal interpretation in June of 2018. This was really to capture the Amazons, Best Buys, etc. But as you noted, there is no way for small businesses to effectively comply without being a burden.
Jaz
Quoted from goatdan:States are working to close loopholes and assess sales tax on all interstate trade. Before, machine purchases were able to work through a legal loophole. The loophole was closed after the show last year.
Well, mostly. The problem is States have basically started passing laws stating that out of state businesses need to comply with sales tax code in the state (and sometimes even local area), but the onus is on the individual companies that have not been informed by those states of the change directly, nor is there a simple way set up for small businesses to do it properly.
At some point, a case is going to end up at the Supreme Court about this placing an undue burden on interstate trade, and the companies should win it over the states. Until then, it's a ton of confusion.
By the way, I feel compelled to add that I think that people shouldn't be able to avoid taxes by buying online. I also do think a lot of people weren't claiming use tax. But... This is not the way to do it.
Because of this, the perception is there is an added cost to the purchase of machines this year that wasn't there before, thus adding to the depressed market.
Oh, and to be clear, I think the law changed officially last year, but it was after the show so it did not affect us.
Quoted from Jazman:FYI, and yes it's really just a "technically", the law didn't change. The Supreme Court reversed/changed a prior ruling/legal interpretation in June of 2018. This was really to capture the Amazons, Best Buys, etc. But as you noted, there is no way for small businesses to effectively comply without being a burden.
Jaz
Correct, it's more that states started announcing intentions for these laws last year.
I've said this for year, and have sold games online since 1999 - its absolutely an unfair advantage for a mail order business to not gave to charge tax and its a loophole that should have been changed. They just did it as poorly as possible.
Quoted from John_In_WI:I'm looking for an SS Joker Poker (will consider projects). Located just west of Milwaukee.
good luck in the hunt!
I have been looking for one for a while! super fun game!
1 year later
Black Rose, nice pin. Could use a solid shop job. Plays great. It will be forsale. Hoping not to take it home.
Quoted from waldo34:Black Rose, nice pin. Could use a solid shop job. Plays great. It will be forsale. Hoping not to take it home.
I think you bumped the 2020 thread. That said, good luck with the sale.
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