(Topic ID: 187545)

Meteor Lost It's Mind- video attached

By pindude80

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 37 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by schudel5
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Meteor Stern Electronics, 1979
#1 6 years ago

So last night I was playing my Meteor. Everything was going well until in the middle of a ball it started counting bonus, but it wasn't counting bonus I had collected, it just kept going and going and going. I drained the ball and it didn't stop. I restarted the game, it didn't do it right away, but as soon as I launched the ball it started doing this, I noticed it kept firing the trough kicker while it was doing this. It finally stopped. I launched another ball, same thing, only this time it kept firing one or two of the coils for the Meteor targets at the top of the playfield. It eventually stopped. I launched another ball, started doing it again, but this time didn't fire any coils. I pulled the glass and knocked down all of the drop targets and hit all of the standup targets, but that didn't stop it.

Does anyone have any idea why it is doing this or what I need to look at first?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8LKsouTS1igYy16SmJkU1VzNEk

#2 6 years ago

Your rocket target coils aren't firing.
So it's counting *up*, thinking you're really good and knocking them all back down again.

Find out why your coils aren't firing.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Your rocket target coils aren't firing.
So it's counting *up*, thinking you're really good and knocking them all back down again.
Find out why your coils aren't firing.

ah ha, good call! Any ideas where to start looking to see why none of them are firing?

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

ah ha, good call! Any ideas where to start looking to see why none of them are firing?

I'd start with fuses. Check the one on the underside of the playfield first. Run test mode, and see if ANY are firing. If some are, then that will help narrow down what it can be if not a fuse. I'm guess it's the fuse.

HOWEVER, that doesn't explain why your outhole kicker keeps firing. (It looks like it is in the video?)

#5 6 years ago

Stuck switch ??

#6 6 years ago

Cool, I'll give the fuses a check and do some research to figure out how to run test mode; never done it before on an early Stern.

Yes the outhole kicker would fire sometimes, sometimes it wouldn't, same with one of more of the coils for the meteor stand up targets.

#7 6 years ago

If any of the playfield coils (other than the flippers) work, then it's not the fuse under the playfield. I'm going to guess it's a stuck closed switch at the outhole.

At first I had thought it might be the bug in the Meteor code where, when a ball drains, the bonus countdown is repeated 256 times. But it doesn't appear to be that issue in this case. Check the outhole switch to make sure there is a gap with the ball removed.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I'd start with fuses. Check the one on the underside of the playfield first. Run test mode, and see if ANY are firing. If some are, then that will help narrow down what it can be if not a fuse. I'm guess it's the fuse.
HOWEVER, that doesn't explain why your outhole kicker keeps firing. (It looks like it is in the video?)

Maybe there's a signal issue and it's firing the outhole instead of one of the drop banks?

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Maybe there's a signal issue and it's firing the outhole instead of one of the drop banks?

Yeah - that was going to be another thought of mine - that there's a mad connection between the MPU and SDB boards, where not all signals are getting through.. Would want to check the plugs up in the backbox.. cracked solder joints, etc.

Though, I thought that only some of the coils went through the fuse on the under side of the playfield - I don't have my schematics at work here, so i can't verify that?

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Yeah - that was going to be another thought of mine - that there's a mad connection between the MPU and SDB boards, where not all signals are getting through.. Would want to check the plugs up in the backbox.. cracked solder joints, etc.
Though, I thought that only some of the coils went through the fuse on the under side of the playfield - I don't have my schematics at work here, so i can't verify that?

I think it's everything but the flippers? Don't have my schematics either though

#11 6 years ago

Ok, I'll check the under PF fuse, but coils other than the flippers are working. I will also check the gap on the outhole switch.

I will report back what I find.

Thanks to everyone for all of the replies and info

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Yeah - that was going to be another thought of mine - that there's a mad connection between the MPU and SDB boards, where not all signals are getting through..

I don't think it's the outhole switch since it would increment ball count and end the game. I'm also leaning towards a MPU J4 to SDB J4 continuity issue especially since the right sling fires when the pop bumper is hit.

#13 6 years ago

Specifically, MPU J4 pin 1 is not connected all the way through to solenoid driver board J4 pin 3.

#14 6 years ago

I spent some time on Meteor last night. The gap on the outhole switch is set correctly. I pulled the under playfield fuse out of the game and tested, it's good.

I started looking at other stuff. I figured out on the bank targets labeled with number one, when the last of the three is dropped, doesn't matter the order, it will start counting down the bonus and firing one of the coils for the bank of targets that are the Meteor letters- I think the second "E" coil. The same thing on the bank targets labeled with number two, only it will fire the outhhole kicker repeatedly and count bonus once the last of the three targets is knocked down.

I manually reset the banks and it will finish counting down bonus, say for about 7 seconds and won't do it again until the last of the three of each target bank is dropped and then it will start counting bonus like crazy again.

Does that give anyone ideas on what to look at or what might be the problem?

#15 6 years ago

It's not counting bonus down, it's scoring the rocket value (per target down) and incrementing the rocket value. Since all three targets are down and can't be reset they score again and again. The game doesn't know they don't reset so it thinks all 3 were knocked down again. So you get rocket value x3 and three bonus increments. Doesn't take long to max out at 7.

See post #13 for the fix.

To confirm:
Dropping all #1 targets = outhole fires
Dropping all #2 targets = 2nd Meteor E target fires
Hit pop bumper = Right sling fires
Hit left sling = Bank #3 resets
Win a game (knocker) = Meteor bank resets

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

See post #13 for the fix.

What he said.

But don't overlook a bad, or weak solder joint that still looks good. I had a similar problem with my Seawitch. It turned out to be a bad connection with the yellow coil wire at drop target #1. The soldered connection looked good, but moving the wire around would make the connection come and go. But just the weight of the wire would render the connection point to lose continuity.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

It's not counting bonus down, it's scoring the rocket value (per target down) and incrementing the rocket value. Since all three targets are down and can't be reset they score again and again. The game doesn't know they don't reset so it thinks all 3 were knocked down again. So you get rocket value x3 and three bonus increments. Doesn't take long to max out at 7.
See post #13 for the fix.
To confirm:
Dropping all #1 targets = outhole fires
Dropping all #2 targets = 2nd Meteor E target fires
Hit pop bumper = Right sling fires
Hit left sling = Bank #3 resets
Win a game (knocker) = Meteor bank resets

Ok, makes sense it's scoring the rocket value over and over since the targets are all down and not resetting.

Dropping all #1 targets = outhole fires YES
Dropping all #2 targets = 2nd Meteor E target fires I am pretty sure it's the second E, but would need to confirm
Hit pop bumper = Right sling fires Not sure, would need to check
Hit left sling = Bank #3 resets Not sure, would need to check
Win a game (knocker) = Meteor bank resets Not sure, didn't get this far.

Quoted from dothedoo:

Specifically, MPU J4 pin 1 is not connected all the way through to solenoid driver board J4 pin 3.

I'm not sure what you mean here and as referencing as being the fix, probably over my head
Am I looking to see if there is a bad connection or cold solder joint at J4 pin 1? Sorry for the rookie question here.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

Ok, makes sense it's scoring the rocket value over and over since the targets are all down and not resetting.
Dropping all #1 targets = outhole fires YES
Dropping all #2 targets = 2nd Meteor E target fires I am pretty sure it's the second E, but would need to confirm
Hit pop bumper = Right sling fires Not sure, would need to check
Hit left sling = Bank #3 resets Not sure, would need to check
Win a game (knocker) = Meteor bank resets Not sure, didn't get this far.

I'm not sure what you mean here and as referencing as being the fix, probably over my head
Am I looking to see if there is a bad connection or cold solder joint at J4 pin 1? Sorry for the rookie question here.

Probably the signal is not getting from the pin on the mpu to the pin on the driver board. So yes, check for bad solder joints, replace the pins, check continuity, etc. It could also be a problem on the boards but a connector issue is most likely.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

Ok, makes sense it's scoring the rocket value over and over since the targets are all down and not resetting.
Dropping all #1 targets = outhole fires YES
Dropping all #2 targets = 2nd Meteor E target fires I am pretty sure it's the second E, but would need to confirm
Hit pop bumper = Right sling fires Not sure, would need to check
Hit left sling = Bank #3 resets Not sure, would need to check
Win a game (knocker) = Meteor bank resets Not sure, didn't get this far.

I'm not sure what you mean here and as referencing as being the fix, probably over my head
Am I looking to see if there is a bad connection or cold solder joint at J4 pin 1? Sorry for the rookie question here.

Open your back box.

There are three circuit boards looking straight at you.

**************
Part #1

The board at you upper left is the MPU. You have four connectors that plug into the MPU.

Each connection point on the MPU is labled in several ways.

1) It will tell you which connector you are looking at by using small white numbers and letters. J-4 is the lower left connector on the MPU.

2) It will tell you how many pins are on the connector. J-4 has 19 pins on the connector

3) It will tell you the direction of the pin numbers. On the MPU J-4, Pin #1 is at the top of the connector and pin #19 is at the bottom.

4) All of your connector plugs will have a pin hole that is not being used and a small key/plug is inserted into that empty hole. That small plug prevents you from removing the connector and then screwing up by installing it backwards. You will see a small mark on the the MPU board that tells you where the small key/plug is located. On the MPU J-4, the key is located at pin #14.

So he is telling you the first item you look for is MPU connector J-4 pin #1 is your start point.

The Meteor schematics do not tell you the color of the wire but it is a red wire with white bands painted on.
*********************
Part #2

1) The SDU, or Solenoid Driver Board, is located at the upper right side of the back box. Look at the labeling and it will tell you this.

2) On the SDU, the J-4 connector is located at the lower right hand side of the board. It is marked and labeled just like the MPU connectors.

3) While on the MPU the J-4 connector is located in the lower LEFT corner of the board, on the SDU the J-4 connector is located at the lower RIGHT hand side of the board.

4) the SDU J-4 connector is labeled for 12 pins. Pin #1 is at the top. The key plug is located at pin #2.

5) He is telling you that you need to locate SDU J-4 pin #3.

On SDU J 4, pin #1 location is an open hole. It is not used. Pin #2 is an open hole because this is where the key is located. The first pin that has any wiring is pin #3 and that wire is color Red with White bands.

He is telling you are having trouble with your connection along the red/white banded wire between MPU J 4, pin #1 and SDU J-4 pin #3.

If you CAREFULLY cut some tie wraps you will be able to follow the red/white wire all the way across the back box.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Open your back box.
There are three circuit boards looking straight at you.
**************
Part #1
The board at you upper left is the MPU. You have four connectors that plug into the MPU.
Each connection point on the MPU is labled in several ways.
1) It will tell you which connector you are looking at by using small white numbers and letters. J-4 is the lower left connector on the MPU.
2) It will tell you how many pins are on the connector. J-4 has 19 pins on the connector
3) It will tell you the direction of the pin numbers. On the MPU J-4, Pin #1 is at the top of the connector and pin #19 is at the bottom.
4) All of your connector plugs will have a pin hole that is not being used and a small key/plug is inserted into that empty hole. That small plug prevents you from removing the connector and then screwing up by installing it backwards. You will see a small mark on the the MPU board that tells you where the small key/plug is located. On the MPU J-4, the key is located at pin #14.
So he is telling you the first item you look for is MPU connector J-4 pin #1 is your start point.
The Meteor schematics do not tell you the color of the wire but it is a red wire with white bands painted on.
*********************
Part #2
1) The SDU, or Solenoid Driver Board, is located at the upper right side of the back box. Look at the labeling and it will tell you this.
2) On the SDU, the J-4 connector is located at the lower right hand side of the board. It is marked and labeled just like the MPU connectors.
3) While on the MPU the J-4 connector is located in the lower LEFT corner of the board, on the SDU the J-4 connector is located at the lower RIGHT hand side of the board.
4) the SDU J-4 connector is labeled for 12 pins. Pin #1 is at the top. The key plug is located at pin #2.
5) He is telling you that you need to locate SDU J-4 pin #3.
On SDU J 4, pin #1 location is an open hole. It is not used. Pin #2 is an open hole because this is where the key is located. The first pin that has any wiring is pin #3 and that wire is color Red with White bands.
He is telling you are having trouble with your connection along the red/white banded wire between MPU J 4, pin #1 and SDU J-4 pin #3.
If you CAREFULLY cut some tie wraps you will be able to follow the red/white wire all the way across the back box.

Wow, great detailed guide there!

I will try and check it out this weekend and get back to you guys.

Thanks to everyone that replied!

#21 6 years ago

Nice write-up!

One more thing, if you're going to use a multimeter to test continuity you can't simply jab the probes into the connector housing. Doing that will probably read good because you're just testing the wire from end to end, not the connectors. The wire itself is probably fine.

The female pins inside the connector get brittle and break, therefore not making contact with the male pins on the board. To test is properly you have to test from the solder joint on the back of the MPU to the solder joint on the back of the SDB. Assuming, of course, that the solder joints are good.

It's easier just to pop the wires out of the connector housings, cut the old pins off and crimp on new ones. To make the game bulletproof you really need to repin ALL of the connectors in the machine, but the worst offenders are MPU J4 and all of the connectors on the rectifier board.

You can buy .100 pins (needed for your issue), .156 trifurcon pins (for the rectifier), header strips and the crimping tool from GPE.
www.greatplainselectronics.com

#22 6 years ago

Good point about testing from the back of the solder joint to the back of the solder joint on the other board to get the most accurate results. I have .156 trifurcons, molex housings, and the required crimpers. I'm not able to do the board work so I wonder if I should just go ahead and replace both connectors since you said they get brittle and break and then see if I still have the problem and if I do I can get the header pins replaced next. Good plan?

#23 6 years ago

That's where I would start, but you'll need .100 pins for this.

#24 6 years ago

No problem, I have .100 pins and housings also. Although it looks like the MPU connector might be 19 or more pins so I will probably have to order one of those, I know I don't have one that big.

#25 6 years ago

You usual don't need to replace the housings... Not much to 'go bad' with them vs the pins.

#26 6 years ago

If you are talking about the headers you don't need to use one continuous piece header. If it's say, 20 pins, you can use two 10 pin headers. Just make sure they are straight in line with each other, once soldered in, or it makes it hard to get the connector housings inserted.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

You usual don't need to replace the housings... Not much to 'go bad' with them vs the pins.

That's good, I didn't lay eyes on it yet. It sounds like these are already in molex-type housing then. I am used to when fixing Bally/Willliams games the connectors are insulation displacement connectors (IDC) and I have to convert all of the wires over because I don't trust or want to use another IDC connector.

Should I just replace the one wire in the connectors then I guess to see if the problem goes away?

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

If you are talking about the headers you don't need to use one continuous piece header. If it's say, 20 pins, you can use two 10 pin headers. Just make sure they are straight in line with each other, once soldered in, or it makes it hard to get the connector housings inserted.

I was referring to the connector housing, but it sounds like they are already in a molex-style connector so I think I can just replace the one wire's terminal on each board and if that doesn't work I will see if my friend can replace the header pins on the boards.

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

That's good, I didn't lay eyes on it yet. It sounds like these are already in molex-type housing then. I am used to when fixing Bally/Willliams games the connectors are insulation displacement connectors (IDC) and I have to convert all of the wires over because I don't trust or want to use another IDC connector.
Should I just replace the one wire in the connectors then I guess to see if the problem goes away?

Most of the earlier games still use regular molex connectors. Later in the 80s they switch to IDC but my Meteor, at least, had molex in it. You could replace just the one pin, but if that does fix the problem, I'd replace the rest of them.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Most of the earlier games still use regular molex connectors. Later in the 80s they switch to IDC but my Meteor, at least, had molex in it. You could replace just the one pin, but if that does fix the problem, I'd replace the rest of them.

good point!

#31 6 years ago

you guys are awesome! Last night I pulled the J4 MPU connector, replaced the female pin for position 1, plugged it back in and it was fixed! I took Zacaj's advice and replaced all of the female pins in connector J4, played for about a good hour and it played great!

While I was working on it I moved the upper flipper EOS to engage sooner in hopes that the standups would knock down a little easier as my friend suggested, it seemed to help a little bit, but not as much as I was hoping. Is there a trick to getting them to fall down easier and not just stay standing when they get a medium to hard hit from the ball?

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

you guys are awesome! Last night I pulled the J4 MPU connector, replaced the female pin for position 1, plugged it back in and it was fixed! I took Zacaj's advice and replaced all of the female pins in connector J4, played for about a good hour and it played great!
While I was working on it I moved the upper flipper EOS to engage sooner in hopes that the standups would knock down a little easier as my friend suggested, it seemed to help a little bit, but not as much as I was hoping. Is there a trick to getting them to fall down easier and not just stay standing when they get a medium to hard hit from the ball?

You may need to clean the mech. Do they fall down part way, or just stay completely up? Is it only the first few targets you hit? Do they fall down fine when the game drops them itself? All of mine fall down if you breathe on them

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

You may need to clean the mech. Do they fall down part way, or just stay completely up? Is it only the first few targets you hit? Do they fall down fine when the game drops them itself? All of mine fall down if you breathe on them

I took all my mechs apart and cleaned them when I got new targets from pinball resource. They drop like sweat soft butter now.

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

You may need to clean the mech. Do they fall down part way, or just stay completely up? Is it only the first few targets you hit? Do they fall down fine when the game drops them itself? All of mine fall down if you breathe on them

Yeah maybe I should clean it, but all of the targets fall cleanly and they fall all the way down. It's when they are hit hard that they don't want to fall.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

Yeah maybe I should clean it, but all of the targets fall cleanly and they fall all the way down. It's when they are hit hard that they don't want to fall.

Check the back plate of the mech. These early Stern mechs tend to oxidize.....bad. The oxidation acts like sandpaper and prevents the targets from falling. Try removing the oxidation and see if that helps. Also, the rod that goes through all the pivot arms oxidizes and can cause binding. Polishing this should be part of your cleaning process.

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Check the back plate of the mech. These early Stern mechs tend to oxidize.....bad. The oxidation acts like sandpaper and prevents the targets from falling. Try removing the oxidation and see if that helps. Also, the rod that goes through all the pivot arms oxidizes and can cause binding. Polishing this should be part of your cleaning process.

Cool, I'll check it out when I get a chance. I guess the whole unit comes out fairly easily?

Thanks for the advice!

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

I guess the whole unit comes out fairly easily?

Define 'easily'. The meteor drop bank is at least on a connector so you can pull the whole unit out. The problem is that the assembly has a drop coil for each target so there's a lot in the bank. There are screws that you remove to disassemble, but don't lose any springs. It can be tricky to get back together. I made a spring hook tool from a paperclip to help lift and reattach the springs to the drops once the unit is together.

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