Meteor F4 Fuse Blows on replacement

Meteor has been pretty rock solid till last night. Girlfriend was playing it and all lights , displays went out (except GI) in middle of a ball.

Turned it on tonight and got 6 beeps and 6 red flashes on the CPU board. Just GI and backglass bulbs (GI) came on.
Tested fuses and saw that F4 was blown so replaced with 5A SB.

Watched the TA-100 Rev B board as I turned on the pin and I saw F4 blow instantly.

This Meteor has all original boards. Was looking thru some other threads on here regarding F4 blowing and someone suggested a possible blown bridge rectifier could be the problem but did not see a conclusion.

Any advice on what to check next, I would be grateful.

Thanks!

#2 4 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,984 24 7

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
Any advice on what to check next,

Until you get some better answers, it wouldn't hurt to grab a meter and check the bridge rectifier to see if it's dead shorted.

Youtube should have some short videos on using a meter or checking a bridge rectifier if you need help.

LTG : )

#3 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Here's a pic of the front of the TA-100 Rev B w/ F4 fuse removed.

Can the bridge rectifier be tested from this side with a DVM with fuses pulled and connectors removed ??

IMG_20190624_204928 (resized).jpg

#4 4 years ago

AMS

barakandl

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
Meteor has been pretty rock solid till last night. Girlfriend was playing it and all lights , displays went out (except GI) in middle of a ball.
Turned it on tonight and got 6 beeps and 6 red flashes on the CPU board. Just GI and backglass bulbs (GI) came on.
Tested fuses and saw that F4 was blown so replaced with 5A SB.
Watched the TA-100 Rev B board as I turned on the pin and I saw F4 blow instantly.
This Meteor has all original boards. Was looking thru some other threads on here regarding F4 blowing and someone suggested a possible blown bridge rectifier could be the problem but did not see a conclusion.
Any advice on what to check next, I would be grateful.
Thanks!

the bridge rectifier probably had a diode inside of it go short which makes blows the fuse. Looks up how to test a bridge rectifier with DMM.

#5 4 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,984 24 7

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
Can the bridge rectifier be tested from this side with a DVM with fuses pulled and connectors removed ??

Yes. Four solder pads. Set meter to diode check, or ohms. Put a probe on one solder pad and the other probe on the solder pad next to it, keep moving to the next solder pad the whole way around. Then reverse probes and repeat. See any dead shorts between any two pads ? If so, then you know the bridge rectifier is bad.

LTG : )

#6 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Yep, tested BR2. Is bad on the - side to both AC pads.
No reading at all.

Can this be fixed while the wires are still connected to the TA-100 and the transformer?
Seems like if I take off the (2) tie down straps, I can get enough length to pull it up pretty high in the cab to work on the BR2 replacement with a stand of some sort.
Better than maybe unsoldering all those wires?

And these are the (3) tiny bridge rectifier(s). PN on side of BR2 is: +VJ248. Same PN on all (3) BR's.

#7 4 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,984 24 7

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
Can this be fixed while the wires are still connected to the TA-100 and the transformer?
Seems like if I take off the (2) tie down straps, I can get enough length to pull it up pretty high in the cab to work on the BR2 replacement with a stand of some sort.

I would unplug the game when doing this maneuver.

LTG : )

#8 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from LTG:
I would unplug the game when doing this maneuver.
LTG : )

Of course LTG!
Trying to find the VJ248 BR..kinda obsolete. I see there is a nice assembled "updated" Weebly board as well I'm considering.

#9 4 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

Before pulling the rectifier board out, I would first check if it's something on the playfield/backbox causing the fuse to blow.
Install J2 only on the rectifier board.
Disconnect the front coin door connector (so you remove the coin lockout coil from circuit) and with a new fuse power on. If the fuse blows, you know the fault is on the rectifier board. Otherwise you need to look elsewhere.

BTW, F4 is a 5A fast blow fuse, not slow blow.

#10 4 years ago

AMS

barakandl

with the three connectors off you can unscrew and pull the entire assembly out.

#11 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from Quench:
Before pulling the rectifier board out, I would first check if it's something on the playfield/backbox causing the fuse to blow.
Install J2 only on the rectifier board.
Disconnect the front coin door connector (so you remove the coin lockout coil from circuit) and with a new fuse power on. If the fuse blows, you know the fault is on the rectifier board. Otherwise you need to look elsewhere.
BTW, F4 is a 5A fast blow fuse, not slow blow.

I will try this today and report. Thanks! The BR2 that tested bad is still on the board though.

UPDATE:
Installed new 5A fuse in F4 holder , pulled off connectors J1 and J3. Unplugged connector coming from coin door on left front of cabinet.
J2 is the upper right connector to confirm which one stayed plugged in to TA-100 board.
Powered on pin.
Nada. Acted like it was unplugged from wall. Toggled power on and off a few times. No beeps , np flash from F4 fuse holder.
Pulled F4 fuse and tested. Still good.
So this verifies that BR2 is bad to confirm?
Thanks for the troubleshooting assistance Quench. And Barakandl!

UPDATE#2:
I just decided to reseat the 5A fuse back into F4 after testing it good with a DVM. I flipped on the power again and the fuse did blow this time!
I don't know how it avoided blowing the first time but with just following your instructions again as listed above, the fuse blew. I pulled it and tried it again to be sure. The second 5A fuse I put into F4 also blew again when powered on. So it is a bad BR2 after all.

I learned something today from this. Sometimes you need to re-test...

#12 4 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
The BR2 that tested bad is still on the board though.

Well, not quite. You mentioned you got no reading between the "-" leg and the AC legs of the bridge. No reading doesn't equal a short circuit which is what blows fuses.

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
So this verifies that BR2 is bad to confirm?

No, with J2 only connected to the rectifier board, it says BR2 may be good and the problem is on the playfield or in the backbox.

Connect J2 and J3 (backbox connector) to the rectifier board, power up. If the F4 fuse blows (unlikely but possible), the problem is in the back box. If it doesn't blow, the problem might be on the playfield. Look around the flipper mechanisms and make sure the playfield fuse has a proper 1 amp slow blow fuse fitted.

Oh by the way check the wiring on the coin lockout coil on the coin door that the wires aren't touching the metal coin door frame.

#13 4 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
UPDATE#2:
I just decided to reseat the 5A fuse back into F4 after testing it good with a DVM. I flipped on the power again and the fuse did blow this time!

With the power off, are you now measuring any short circuits on the BR3 bridge?

Note, you've been mentioning bridge BR2 but that one isn't fused by F4. F4 is the fuse for bridge BR3.

#14 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from Quench:
With the power off, are you now measuring any short circuits on the BR3 bridge?
Note, you've been mentioning bridge BR2 but that one isn't fused by F4. F4 is the fuse for bridge BR3.

Well that's me, focusing on the wrong BR all this time and just because F4 fuse holder is right below BR2.

I did not test BR3 yet with connectors and fuses removed yet.

But I did run the the other test above. See next reply.

#15 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from Quench:
Well, not quite. You mentioned you got no reading between the "-" leg and the AC legs of the bridge. No reading doesn't equal a short circuit which is what blows fuses.

No, with J2 only connected to the rectifier board, it says BR2 may be good and the problem is on the playfield or in the backbox.
Connect J2 and J3 (backbox connector) to the rectifier board, power up. If the F4 fuse blows (unlikely but possible), the problem is in the back box. If it doesn't blow, the problem might be on the playfield. Look around the flipper mechanisms and make sure the playfield fuse has a proper 1 amp slow blow fuse fitted.
Oh by the way check the wiring on the coin lockout coil on the coin door that the wires aren't touching the metal coin door frame.

Under playfield fuse checks out as 1A SloBlo and tests ok pulled out of holder.

Put new 5A fuse in F4, connected J2 and J3 to TA-100. Power on pin. F4 blows immediately and then game continues to boot with the 6 beeps and matching 6 flashes of the CPU led. Same as how I found it after it went dead after the girl of my dreams was in the middle of a hot 2nd ball! LOL

Will test BR3 soon and report...and THANKS!

#16 4 years ago

CLE

CLEllison

Pinside+ Frequent

Portland, OR

5y 66,550 1,613 4 7

Contact www.actionpinball.com for the VJ248 BR. They used to carry quite a few.

#17 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from CLEllison:
Contact www.actionpinball.com for the VJ248 BR. They used to carry quite a few.

Thanks. Got to check BR3 to see if it's really bad first. I hope that is all it is.

#18 4 years ago

AMS

barakandl

check the knocker coil as it has no DC side fuse like the playfield coils do.

#19 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from barakandl:
check the knocker coil as it has no DC side fuse like the playfield coils do.

Good thought.
I unplugged the knocker coil (has it's own disconnect), loaded up another 5A fuse in F4, connected j1,j2 and j3 back onto TA-100 board.
Turned on pin and F4 fuse blew immediately.

BR3 has tested bad so I need to find one..I have some pinheads local to me I'm checking with now.
Still considering the Weebly board as it has all new components and connector pins plus stronger BR's...
But I'd like to still have this one fixed as a spare.

#20 4 years ago

???

westofrome

Pinside member

Alexandria, VA

11y 77,300 2,158 2

I had the same exact issue with the F4 blowing on Meteor. Ended up ordering the Weebly board, I figured for the price I get new headers, stronger rectifiers, etc. But if you want to replace the bridge Action has it: https://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=VJ248

#21 4 years ago

CSG

semicolin

Pinside member

8y 51,300 481

Last time I did one of these I said screw the VJ248 and got something beefier. This solution is way less expensive than a new board, and might actually last longer, considering that I've even replaced rectifiers on my replacements.

Solder one of these to the open side of the board by bending the legs, and put on a heatsink:
Rectifier: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/comchip-technology/KBPC3504W-G/641-1856-ND/3300082
Heatsink (with 8-32 threads): https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ohmite/E3A-T220-25E/E3A-T220-25E-ND/6574620
Heatsink compound (one tube lasts forever): https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/chip-quik-inc/TC1-10G/TC1-10G-ND/9681980
8-32x1" machine screw: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/keystone-electronics/9421/36-9421-ND/2746154

#22 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from westofrome:
I had the same exact issue with the F4 blowing on Meteor. Ended up ordering the Weebly board, I figured for the price I get new headers, stronger rectifiers, etc. But if you want to replace the bridge Action has it: https://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=VJ248

Yep, made the same logical deduction you did and ordered a Weebly rectifier board today.
I know someone that has (10) pieces of the original VJ248's coming in stock near me and I plan to get one from him and repair the classic board as spare.
Thanks for your input.

#23 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from westofrome:
I had the same exact issue with the F4 blowing on Meteor. Ended up ordering the Weebly board, I figured for the price I get new headers, stronger rectifiers, etc. But if you want to replace the bridge Action has it: https://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=VJ248

It isn't an original VJ248, states it is a equivalent. Wonder what one they would really be sending?

"This is a replacement for the original obsolete VJ248 rectifier in early Bally and Stern solid-state pinball games, and is rated 6 amps at 600 volts and has wire leads like original. Replaces rectifiers BR1, BR2, and BR3 in these games. Replaces Bally part # 00602-0003 as used on Bally # AS-2518-18 fuse/rectifier board."

#24 4 years ago

GPE

G-P-E

GPE

Omaha, NE

13y 76,800 2,778 4

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
It isn't an original VJ248, states it is a equivalent. Wonder what one they would really be sending?
"This is a replacement for the original obsolete VJ248 rectifier in early Bally and Stern solid-state pinball games, and is rated 6 amps at 600 volts and has wire leads like original. Replaces rectifiers BR1, BR2, and BR3 in these games. Replaces Bally part # 00602-0003 as used on Bally # AS-2518-18 fuse/rectifier board."

The newer bridge rectifiers tend to be a different thickness than the older ones. If replacing - best to do it in a complete set of three. Clean off the old heat sink compound, apply new compound, screw down replacements and get board into place -- *then* solder the new bridges onto the board. This makes sure all three of them have good contact to the mounting plate.

#25 4 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

http://www.mouser.com/Vishay/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Bridge-Rectifiers/_/N-ax1mf?P=1yzxhyxZ1z0z63xZ1yuoc28Z1z0zls5Z1yzxpgeZ1yzxpgdZ1yzxpgcZ1yzxpgbZ1yzxpga

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
This is a replacement for the original obsolete VJ248 rectifier in early Bally and Stern solid-state pinball games, and is rated 6 amps at 600 volts

Those ones from Action Pinball are listed as being thicker than the original VJ248 rectifiers and shouldn't be used if you're replacing one only because the mismatch in thickness won't allow you to screw the bridges flat to the base plate for proper thermal transfer.
Regarding replacing all three to match thickness, at 6 amps rating, they are not suitable for the feature lamp circuit (unless you're using LEDs).

For the solenoid bridge rectifier, you should instead use a Vishay D-72 package bridge which is about the same dimensions as the original VJ248. See listing of 8 amp versions here in various voltages:

Here are some NOS VJ848 (800V version of the VJ248 which is 200V)

ebay.com link: Lot of 2 Microsemi VJ848M 10 Amp 800 Volt Full Wave Bridge Rectifiers 10A 800V

Remember, screw the bridge in place before you solder it and use thermal paste on the mating surface to the metal plate.

KBPC810PBF.jpg

#26 4 years ago

MIL

Thrillhouse

Beehive Pinball

Salt Lake City, UT

9y 89,050 885 24

As always @barakandl is not doing enough shameless self promoting. You should replace that entire board with his diys rectifier - https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
It's the best $35 dollars you'll spend on a 2518 game.

#27 4 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

Wichita, KS

10y 148K 16,589 10 23

Quoted from Thrillhouse:
As always @barakandl is not doing enough shameless self promoting. You should replace that entire board with his diys rectifier - https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
It's the best $35 dollars you'll spend on a 2518 game.

I agree. Those boards are nice.

#28 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member

Quoted from Thrillhouse:
As always @barakandl is not doing enough shameless self promoting. You should replace that entire board with his diys rectifier - https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
It's the best $35 dollars you'll spend on a 2518 game.

I ordered the $50 built rectifier board from him yesterday. He is on vacation till July 2nd thou.
I did notice in his pics of the completed board that BR3 doesn't have a heat sink on it. Guess it runs cool enough?

#29 4 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

Wichita, KS

10y 148K 16,589 10 23

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
I ordered the $50 built rectifier board from him yesterday. He is on vacation till July 2nd thou.
I did notice in his pics of the completed board that BR3 doesn't have a heat sink on it. Guess it runs cool enough?

It works fine.

#30 4 years ago

AMS

barakandl

OP
Quoted from CUJO:
I ordered the $50 built rectifier board from him yesterday. He is on vacation till July 2nd thou.
I did notice in his pics of the completed board that BR3 doesn't have a heat sink on it. Guess it runs cool enough?

Because the solenoids are pulsed and the flippers have EOS switches the 43v bridge does not heat up like the other two that have a continuous load.

1 week later

#31 4 years ago

KWJ

CUJO

Pinside member