Meteor
Stern Electronics, 1979You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zacaj.
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Hey all, just picked one of these up yesterday. Haven't had a chance to set it up or see what's wrong yet, but I noticed on ipdb there's a divided by 10 rom, a normal rom, and a 'home rom'. Are there any gameplay differences with the home rom?
Quoted from Coyote:IMHO - stick with the OEM 'alternate' ROM. The /10 ROM is okay, but my OCD can't stand not having a score end in '0'. The 'Home' ROM is buggy. There's a newer version, mostly under testing, if you're interested send me a PM. But frankly, the OEM 'alternate' is an official Stern release that fixed the unlimited bonus countdown.
What did the home rom change?
Quoted from Pmaino:When you dead pass from one flipper to the other, should the flipper be tight and not move when the ball hits it or is there a bit of a rattle to the flipper? I have tightened the hex screws for the flipper shaft but it seems to still sit loose.
2. Where can I purchase a new flipper shaft and bat? Can't seem to find them on Marco or pinball life. What's the part number?
1. Try replacing the bushing and link.
2. PBR has them
Quoted from Coyote:Re - the flippers. Am I the only one that upgraded to the WPC flipper mechs?
I can't stand Williams mechs. Clamping the flipper shaft just always ends horribly for me. Gimme set screws all day, I'll switch to sys80 mechs if necessary
Quoted from Coyote:Oh - with an Altek then, I think you're stuck like that.
This always annoys me. Seems to me like the altek eprom should just have all the rom images in it, so if I read it, find the image, and replace it and write it back to the rom, it should work, but I tried to find the Hot Hand rom image in there when I was modifying it and couldn't find it. Even if it's in some weird format, couldn't they have at least left an empty socket or something?
Quoted from Coyote:I completely agree. It's why I won't get one, and why I'm making my own newer MPU-200 board. (It's in the works, but plan is to allow larger EPROMS for easier burning and more program space, as well as more RAM space to store data. Meteor uses ALL the available RAM, save for a couple nibbles (total of 1 or 2 bytes..) So adding anything is very difficult, and is where the above bug came from.
One of the things I wanted to add was code to allow the 'Meteor' (pop bumper) to 'fight back' - when the ball hits the pop bumper, one rocket bonus will be *taken off*. Muhaha.
Sounds cool! Is there any notable limit to how much the 6800 can support with modern EPROMs and ram chips? I'm not clear on exactly what the size limitations of the Stern boards are, but I know they're pretty small...
Quoted from Coyote:Essentially, the unused portion of the addresses in an MPU-200 board means that the game code can take just under a 27C256 (32kb) in size. (Total available EPROM address is $0 - $EFFF) When these boards were made, only EPROM space available was four 2716 or two 2732s (8kb total). Meteor's ROM does not have much empty space in it either- there's maybe 1/4 left available. So, more EPROM space (plus, ability to burn the image to more common chips like a 27C040) and more RAM space (doubling by 2/3rds.)
Sorry, I'm rambling technical.
Technical is the best! I've been playing around with modding my hot hand roms (until I sold it last weekend....) and with roms for Williams system 6, so I can really appreciate how much you'd be able to do with even 16kb of rom instead of the 6kb that it seems system 6 supports. Same with RAM; system 3-6 has 256 bytes and 256 half-bytes of RAM, system 7 went up to a full 1KB, I think? I'm not as familiar with Bally/Stern boards though, tried to read some talk about what eproms the bally -35 board supports to figure out what its max total rom space is and couldn't figure out a number
Quoted from Comet-65:I purchased a Meteor game that would not turn on. I got it up and running but there are a few random play field lights that stay on. Does anyone have any suggestions on where I can start my search. The previous owner installed a new mpu board and solenoid driver board.
Track each light back to the transistor on the light board via the schematics, and test the transistors using a multimeter
Quoted from MiamiRedSkin:Brought home this guy today with a missing MPU. Anyone know the cheapest option of finding one? A refurbished original, a working one with hacks, etc? Pictures after a super fast wipe down with Novus 1/2.
Looks real nice! I'll trade you my PF and an MPU for yours 
You can probably find a working or repairable acid damaged one pretty cheap but that can be its own bucket of problems. barakandl is making new repro boards a bit cheaper than Allteks: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-bally-35-stern-mpu-200-repro-boards
I'm sure if you look around you can find a clean used one eventually, but MPU-200s aren't that easy to come by
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:Has anyone replaced the legs on the cab recently?
I'm considering going to black, but I'm curious as to what people have out there.
Mine has matte gold legs on it and I was sorta surprised to learn they weren't original since they fit pretty well
Quoted from erichill:The barakandl board will work because it uses a standard 2732 EPROM, but the Altek will not. Unless you plan on burning dozens of ROMs, I would just pay barakandl or John Wart Jr. to burn this for you.
I thought I was only going to need one rom burned, but you can get a minipro for ~$40, so I figured, who knows, maybe I'll need to burn three more roms in the rest of my life. A year later, I've burned at least 40 roms. No reason to ever pay for rom burning in my opinion.
Quoted from freakandgeek:So seems like I may have a switch issue.
The flippers don't have a switch on them, so that doesn't work out.
Quoted from freakandgeek:A weird thing that I don't think is normal is the shoot again bulb comes on
Do you actually get the EB, or is it just the light?
Quoted from freakandgeek:The flipper coils have power, but none work.
Check continuity from flippers to driver board, across driver board, to cab switches, etc. If they have power on one end then the chain on the other end must be the issue
Quoted from dothedoo:I was going to suggest this one as a common one people get nowadays. But it's pretty pricey for occasional use.
amazon.com link »
Can you post info on the minipro?
My setup uses an old Needham's ISA programmer, but with that I have to keep an old, slow computer with an ISA slot and run an old operating system on it. I need to get a USB version that I can use with a laptop for portability.
Looks like they're up to $50 now.. https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-TL866CS-Universal-MiniPro-Programmer/dp/B00K73TSLM/ref=sr_1_1
It's not nearly as nice as the more expensive ones, but it's worked fine for me. Burns all the common e/eeproms without issue, single USB plug. Interface has a bit of chinese but all the important parts are readable
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:Hey Team Meteor.. Quick question.
Has anyone tried the newer, one piece molded flipper bats from Marco?
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3994-5 or http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3994-4
Meteor is listed at a compatible product, but I wanted to see what people are using before I ordered anything. Thanks!
Stern flipper bats aren't the same as ballys so that seems a bit suspicious
Quoted from uncle_jose:Over the past weekend I replaced the M-E-T-E-O-R targets and its springs thinking that this will fix the issue that at start up of a game, some targets will drop, but no.. not as often as they used to do though, but still sometimes some targets will drop by their own. Any other suggestion on how to resolve this issue? Also, while I was I was there I removed a couple of loops from the springs that holds the metal plate on the coil armature.
TIA!
~ja
Is it always the targets at one end? I had that problem with my ME targets, needed to adjust the reset arm
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:Team Meteor.. I need some help.
I'd like to replace the following parts, but I cannot seem to reliably figure out the modern part number,
- All coil sleeves
- coil plunger & linkage for Drop targets, slingshots, kick out, etc.
If anyone has already gone down this path and would like to share, I would greatly appreciate it.
I used a regular new Stern slingshot link in the slings of my Stingray with no problems. If I had to guess I'd say most mechs use the same sleeve as the flippers
Quoted from SilverballNut:I have bags of different sleeve sizes because I got tired of trying to figure out the correct one to order. They all have the same diameter, so you just need to match the length. You can measure them and find the lengths on marco. You can also cut down longer ones, as long as it's a nice clean cut.
For the linkages, I usually take them apart and tumble them for the drops since they don't move to often. If you don't have a tumbler then use some green scotch bright pad and clean with alcohol afterwards. That should take off any light rust and you'll be good for years.
The others, I just match them with modern ones as needed (again I've bought several sizes in the past so usually have a new part lying around).
I think some drop coil sleeves are a larger diameter?
Quoted from Coyote:I thought I put this reply here, but it ended up in a different thread.
Anyways, they're working to make it right, and I'm not expecting any issues, since again, I had tested everything outside of the game.
I had sent some quotes off to Chinese places, and after this debacle with the current company, I'm thinking of going the Chinese route.
From the initial quotes I got, looks like I can get the main rocket boards down to $50-$55 a piece, not including shipping. It's possible it will be less - but also possible it will be more. However, that looks to be the average right now.
--Mike
Curious, what percentage seems to be labor vs BOM, any idea?
Quoted from Lovef2k:I just picked up another Meteor with a decent pf. It was running fine until today. I started a game and now the upper flipper is chattering, machine gunning. Any ideas? I'm thinking EOS problem?
Usually a bad coil, or bad secondary switch on lower flipper
Quoted from SilverballNut:Sounds odd. If the problem stays in the same spot, then the high voltage section of your driver board probably needs rebuilt, or at least new caps. It doesn't sound like a short or you'd pop a fuse, but it might be bad connectors.
You can test the high voltage with a DMM and make sure it is high enough. If it's under 190 you can bump it a little (there is a pot on the board) at a time and see if that helps. Just don't go higher. The lower you can have it and they work the longer the displays will last. And remember it is high voltage and can zap or maybe kill you so be careful. If you have a strong 180-190 on the test, check the display wiring.
Playfield angle I use about 6 for the older games. Might adjust up or down depending on how it plays and how well the flippers are doing.
The HV for all displays comes from the same pin on the driver board, so if some display positions are fine it can't be a driver issue.
Stern needs the different cpu speed jumpers set. What type of MPU are you using? Did your old meteor roms work fine in it before jumpering?
I'd think that if you get your first flash then the roms are jumpered correctly, unless you messed up the wiring for another component by accident at the same time or something.
Quoted from SilverballNut:Well it doesn't look like it was the jumpers. I pulled the board and checked them all including the speed jumpers.
I'm suspicious of the second RAM chip. I read the Stern games use both RAM chips and the Bally only the first one. The flashing indicates it may not be passing the RAM test so that could explain why a Bally rom would work. I'm going to source a few new chips and see if that fixes it up. If not I may have to send it off to get checked if I can't scope it out.
You need to have two of the same, faster memory speed.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:How the hell can you determine which hole size you have for the coil stops?!?! Pinball life is offering two different size holes (6 vs 8)??
Mine look like the larger hole, they are copper colored.
-Nate
Take off your coil stop and compare the screw with a #6 and a #8 screw?
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Yep, had that idea also - but dummy me didn't realize you could get both hole sizes on the stops offered by Pinball Life!!!
That's not how it works. They sell two types. Both have two sets of holes, one has bigger holes
Quoted from dothedoo:This is true, but I haven't come across a case where the #6 hole baseplates have a spread configuration which would use the outer holes on the coil stop on the left. The coil stop on the right has covered everything I've ever needed -- early style baseplates use #6 screws and the inner screw holes, later style baseplates use #8 screws and the outer screw holes.
I haven't either, but there must be a reason they make them like that ...
Quoted from dothedoo:Very common. Williams games had switches built like this too. As long as they're clean you really shouldn't have a problem with them. If they're worn though, try turning the blade around before buying a new switch.
Which side should be touching? Flat or small rounded?
Quoted from Chalkey:That's funny, I was thinking about how you could do that just the other day! There are already switches, you'd just need to hack up a way to get the coil power there. I'm sure there's a way to use some unused transistors from the SDU.
Could have just been done EM style using a relay. No switch in the shooter lane though that I recall... I wonder what triggers it
Quoted from NeilMcRae:Folks - I have a coil on my coin door that seems to do little except hoover up power - it vibrates then if I add a credit it stops for a while - what is this for? It seems to be contributing to a power through the coin door problem also (like the coin door as current they it!)
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That's the coin lockout, so that coins put in when the game is off will be rejected. I always just remove them since my games are on free play
Quoted from Robotworkshop:You remove them or just disconnect them? Wouldn't it be better to just leave it in place (but disconnect) so it can easily be converted back to the quarter sucking machine it was meant to be?
Disconnect, yes, but I didn't want to go into clipping the wire, wrapping the end in tape, securing it, etc
Quoted from bluespin:First time that you use it it’ll tell you to place it on the floor to calibrate it. Then take off the playfield glass and place the phone on the center of the playfield. It’ll show you if you’re too high on one side and the pitch
Assuming your floor is level... Not a single thing in my house is 
Quoted from bluespin:The phone accepts your floor as level when it goes through the calibration process. That reading establishes that your floor is level and measures the pitch and side to side angle of the game vs the floor.
An analogy is that it’s like placing an empty bin on a digital scale and pressing the tare button. The scale considers the empty bin as weighing nothing and registers zero weight. Place something in the bin on top of the scale and it only weighs the items inside the bin, not the bin itself.
But that's making sure the game is level...relative to the floor. Which the floor is not.
Just like weighing stuff on a tared scale measures the weight relative to the bowl/etc
Quoted from westofrome:Thanks! Any opinions on hot-stamped drops from Pinball Resource vs. blank targets and decals from other vendors?
I've gotten two sets from PBR and they were all warped. The ones that were warped little enough that I could still install them work fine, they just look bad being all misaligned. I'd try to stay with originals if you have them personally
Quoted from westofrome:Another issue I'm running into is the ball getting stuck between the two posts of this plastic, usually on the plunge. Does this mean that my incline isn't steep enough or is there another way to avoid this?[quoted image]
It shouldn't be able to get stuck, isn't there a rubber there?
Quoted from dothedoo:Call Alltek and see if they can fix it, or ditch the Alltek and use an MPU-200 with updated ROMs. Or just live with it....it doesn't happen but once in a blue moon.
Or get a weebly MPU where you can actually change the roms
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Ok, so how do you gap the EOS switch on the upper flipper in order to weaken the output so you're not smashing the ball into the METEOR targets at such close range??
The switch is normally closed, and opens when power is sent to it. I can understand if the switch is open you would just increase the gap, but I must be missing something??
Also, is this the easiest way to weaken the flipper other than replacing the coil?
Thanks!!
You shouldn't need to mess with the eos if you've got the resistor in line with the coil.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Are you running LEDs on the original boards?
No Leds. It's just the four wows. Trying to figure out if there's something in common.
The weirdest bit is that they all flicker even with J3 unplugged, which supposedly is what one of them is powered by, if I'm reading it right. But that shouldn't be possible. So either the scan is bad or I've got a short somehow?
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Definitely check over all the wiring. It is easy fro things to move around and you may have something shorting against one of the wires. Or one broken off and touching.
Already checked the four sockets, but they're not touching anything. Can't think of anywhere else they could short. But I still don't get what the connection is between those four lamps. It's not like they light in unison usually. Hence the need for a good schematic
Quoted from Lovef2k:Weird things can happen with switched lamps if the switch matrix come in contact with ground. On one of my restore F2K's, the red outlane lamps were staying on solid. I racked my brain for 2 days and if I tapped the side of the cab, they would go out. It turned out to be a short between the coin door ground and a switch on the coin door. Look over any work that you did between now and before the lamps started flickering. Also did you confirm that the lamp driver is good?
Tested lamp board in another game. Haven't done any work under the playfield yet, just got this set up. Someone's been messing with the coin door wiring but I unplugged it and it didn't help.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Yes they are bayonet style. Same voltage I believe. I assume by baffles, you mean tilt, ball in play, HSTD etc.? I haven't seen any game use them except for Black Hole. I would stick to regulars there but you can use the 455 blinkers/flashers behind certain areas of the backglass, like behind stars, planets or meteors. I just remembered that I saw the 455 on a Nineball once to highlight the pool balls on the backglass.
I think it's pretty standard on gottliebs to have the game over light be a 455. Seen it on a ton of mine.
Quoted from ChipScott:Can I ask the group a question. This is my first older machine, and while its not absolutely necessary at this point, i was contemplating replacing the flipper bats. I took a look under the pf and it looks like the flipper bats are held in place by right-angled hex screws; however, when I removed those screws the flipper bats didn't budge, at all. I didn't want to do anything too aggressive until I asked the group if I was missing something??
Thanks in advance!
The two hex screws in the crank should be all that's needed, and just loosen, don't even need to come all the way out. The bat still won't even rotate in the crank?
Note that while PBL sells the proper flipper bats, but their shafts are wrong, too thick for the original cranks, so you'll often need new cranks as well.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:Drop target banks all need attention then she should be ready to play. Can anyone tell me if the dead bumper caps had holes and screws from the factory? My originals do but Steve Young's reproductions don't do I'm not sure if I should drill them or not. They snap dorky onto the body so I'm not worries about them coming off but want the original look.
[quoted image]
They originally were just held on by friction, which didn't work well. Ops tended to add screws or glue
Quoted from hawkmoon:Can anyone direct me to a web site that has a 6 bank drop target assembly to replace mine??? I've already tried Marco,BAA.and PBL.!! PBL has a 3 bank and a 4 bank ,but not 6!! Is it possible to put in 2.3bank targets and wire them together??Thanks!!!!
No bank available now is going to be compatible. I don't know of any other machines in decades that have a 6 bank of memory drops. Best bet is to fix yours
Quoted from Y3AG3R:$2500 is the most one has sold for. Better question is: Is anyone looking for a $2500 Fully Restored Meteor? lol
Idk, were many people looking for $5k centaurs back when it was a sub-$2k game? once the full resto set is available for games the pricing structure changes, both for restored ones and for nice originals
Quoted from Lovef2k:Did you tell Steve? I'm sure have corrected that for you.
After I got the first set, I contacted them, and they sent another set.... that was also warped. Between the two I was able to at least get one set together that was only sorta warped and still at least worked, so I gave up
PBR sells some old stock Brunswick spinners cheap that should be compatible.
Note that 'compatible' isn't the same as correct, even with a decal. Stern spinners of this era seem to be lighter than others, so you often aren't going to get the same spins.
Quoted from ss-pinball:Honest question: would Stern have been pedantic about having all of the spinners weigh the same in 1979? Isn't it possible that they outsourced manufacturing of the part and the large run of Meteors have variances in this part?
I mean, I understand that a heavier spinner will have a different number of revolutions when hit and that would have an impact on scoring...but...given the nature of pinball manufacturing...does is matter?
I mean, if you have a tournament and Meteor is the game...everyone is playing on the same table...
Sure your scores from one table to the next "might not accurately reflect your true skill level" but the tuning and general condition of the machine would differ from table to table and that fact would impact scoring as well...
Curious about your thoughts...
I doubt they'd notice, but I also assume their spinners are lighter because they were like "hey, can we save 10c per spinner if you make them hollow?" or something
Quoted from hisokajp:I agree, they are cross compatible but i remember seeing a side by side comparison showing slight difference. I should actually pull one out from each type of machine and size/weight them
I also would love to see a breakdown. I've got a few gottlieb spinners that look identical (silver checkerboard pattern) but are from different years, and seem to be different thicknesses. Also curious how the weight actually effects the spin count, although that's probably harder to measure
Tried out one of the xpin boards last night... Not as easy as I'd hoped to install. Many of the wires didn't reach the edges of the board without cutting many of the zip ties holding the harness together. Only one terminal for some of the pads despite there being two wires going to them. Using the terminals took some practice, the first few I thought I'd done and then a few wires later I found that they'd come out again. Trying to move one wire at a time from the old board was a mistake, should have found the color code chart and then cut them all off at once. Ended up still hunched over the machine for half an hour cutting, stripping, and tinning wires. But at least I wasn't trying to solder them to the board! Will probably buy another one next time I get a bally/Stern still, but having pads in the middle of the board for the odd wire that doesn't reach easily or keeps pulling out would be a nice option
Quoted from XPinPinball:With what you are describing though, I would suggest stripping those common wires, remove some of the strands, twist and then tin the end
Thats what I ended up doing, but especially with the solder on it, it barely fit into the slot, took a few tries. And in order to get them to twist together well, I had to strip them further, so you can still see a bit of the copper once inserted, which worries me (probably fine though)
Quoted from DickHamill:The machine can be dual-booted between the original code and the new.
Is that literally running the original rom/board when you dual boot into the original code, or did you just re-code the same ruleset for it?
Quoted from DickHamill:When the daughter card is not turned on, it's running all original hardware (original ROM, 6800, RAM, etc.).
The card plugs into J5 (at the top of the board). When switched on, the card lowers the /HALT line on the M6800, to stop it from running, and then it takes over the bus. When it's not switched on, everything on the card is in tri-state mode so it won't change the original behavior of the machine.
This makes it a totally non-destructive mod that can be quickly removed if necessary.
To switch back and forth, I mounted a tiny switch on the left side of the bottom of the head, through that air grate.
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Oooh nice. I didn't think of using the halt line..
Quoted from Coyote:Yeah, honestly, I have never seen a Meteor without that extra post. Be interesting to see if there ware any out there. (And I mean assembled that way, not removed. )
I've never seen a Meteor with the extra post 
and no post holes either
Quoted from A_Bord:Could be, but take it with a grain of salt. CPR always says that when they screw up.
Measured my original pf (red Meteor variant). 1 and 3 drop holes measure the same. "Extra" post is there behind the Meteor targets.
Is your extra post reflected in the tiny diagram for the rubber too?
Quoted from Charles_Kline:At least they finally fixed the missing scores lol. Hopefully the small slot doesn't cause issues the the drop targets.
For the cost they should be perfect. Missing score, ugly brown gold splotches and wrong size slots is too much.
Not to mention all the wrong fonts and stuff. "Half assed" describes it well. Especially when you compare to other repro playfields, most of which are much more accurate
There are two types of bushings for classic sterns. One for mechs that are flush with the playfield, one for mechs that are raised off the playfield. The only one that pinball life sells is the second, longer type which works with its type 2 assemblies. https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-stern-nylon-flipper-bushing.html.
Quoted from Xdetroit:Just hound the club last weeks performing a full shop on it now. I’ve found most of the parts I need but I haven’t found one of these available. Does anyone know where I might find this star rollover piece?
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PBR sells them
Quoted from barakandl:I don't know what the Arduino wants at MPU J5 but if it is going to act as a processor driving the address bus, its not going to work.
The expanded U1 ROM and PIA address mirroring was in the SB300's range so there is some extra gating going on at MPU J5 P10. J5 P10 goes to a 74HC series output gate, so we can't drive that the other way through J5 without contention.
It works by holding the normal cpu in reset and then acting as a cpu with J5 as the bus, so yeah that might be an issue.
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