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(Topic ID: 134253)

Meteor Club - "We will let you know when the danger is past"


By pinballholder

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,808 posts
  • 171 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Charles_Kline
  • Topic is favorited by 80 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Meteor Stern Electronics, 1979

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There are 1808 posts in this topic. You are on page 35 of 37.
#1701 45 days ago
Quoted from Aflacjack:

Lol yeah I completely missed the single battery. Displays don’t come on, just a couple orange dots. And no solenoids fire nor will a game start. There’s issues somewhere, just gotta find them. Might be easier once I get it unloaded and can check fuses, etc

Start at the rectifier board. Slide the clear shield up and remove it. Get a high quality VOM if you don't have one already. Get familiar with pinwiki.com Bally Stern section. It's a great resource for volatge specs for each board. Also mod fixes and other info.
A locked on or steady illumination of the mpu red led indicates a few different problems. First could be no 5 or 12 bolts reaching the mpu to activate the reset section for booting up. Can also be a bad transistor on mpu reset section. IIRC Q1 thru Q5? Corrosion in the reset section also. Bad U9 IC or deeper problem. Can also possibility be that the sound board ribbon cables are dirty or misaligned or installed incorrectly.

Start measuring voltage test points at rectifier board. Be careful not to touch with bare hands as there is 200+ volts for the score displays there and on solenoid driver board.

Record all voltage test points for the rectifier, solenoid driver and mpu.
Report results here.
Compare results to pinwiki and look for discrepancies.

This will atleast get you started and possibility be able to get game to boot up.

#1702 45 days ago

Pinballlife has a new board with connectors, etc in a kit for $64. Good to get here or get the one from Marco for $84 with no connectors?

#1703 45 days ago
Quoted from Aflacjack:

Pinballlife has a new board with connectors, etc in a kit for $64. Good to get here or get the one from Marco for $84 with no connectors?

Big daddy enterprises has some SWEET rectifier boards he just rolled out.

#1704 45 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Big daddy enterprises has some SWEET rectifier boards he just rolled out.

Solderless? If the flip up/down type like a speaker has, no thanks. If screw terminal, maybe.

I usually buy weebly's in kit form, I have most of the parts laying around so the bare board does it for me. Takes almost no time at all to build up.

#1705 45 days ago

I want it built and ready. I like quick and efficient. Hahahaha

#1706 44 days ago
Quoted from Aflacjack:

I want it built and ready. I like quick and efficient. Hahahaha

Considering how the "E" wires are connected to your original board, you're going to have SOME work..

#1707 44 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Considering how the "E" wires are connected to your original board, you're going to have SOME work..

Yeah yeah...some is ok

#1708 44 days ago
Quoted from Aflacjack:

Yeah yeah...some is ok

So you saying the original rectifier board is bad?

#1709 44 days ago

http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/XPINPowerSupplyBoards.html

Just look at these beauties.

Screenshot_20200916-213544 (resized).jpg
#1710 44 days ago

I like the PBL ones myself, since i always order form there and it comes with the whole set of accessories

pasted_image (resized).png

#1711 44 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

I like the PBL ones myself, since i always order form there and it comes with the whole set of accessories
[quoted image]

Yeah, nothing wrong with those either. I'm particularly fond of Xpin displays so I just combine orders and get both.

But I'm also in love with Evo BriteCaps which has me ordering from PBL from time to time

#1712 44 days ago

I do find that the nvram.weebly DIY kits are high quality, and a very affordable.

#1713 44 days ago

I'd still opt for the solder version. If you do use these no solder versions be sure to go back and occasionally re-tighten the screws on those terminals. They can loosen up. Those are used on a lot of 3D printers an some have melted down because of poor connections there. I always check and re-tighten them when doing maintenance on them.

#1714 44 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I'd still opt for the solder version.

Every time..

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If you do use these no solder versions be sure to go back and occasionally re-tighten the screws on those terminals.

They're screwless connectors, not screw terminals. Another point of failure especially with the high constant current load on the lamp wires.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/not-another-bally-18-power-supply-yup

#1715 44 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Every time..

They're screwless connectors, not screw terminals. Another point of failure especially with the high constant current load on the lamp wires.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/not-another-bally-18-power-supply-yup

Thanks for the clarification. I would avoid that version then. If I had to use it I'd still solder as originally intended. I wouldn't trust those push connections.

#1716 44 days ago

What's the opinion on the nvram-weebly rectifier board? It's only $55 (fully assembled) delivered in US. Also available as a kit.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1055-nvramweeblycom/01123--new-bally-stern-rectifier-board-as-2518-18-ta-100

#1717 44 days ago

Weebly makes fantastic stuff. Best MPU out there. Provides an Audio board. While I've never used his rect board before, I have no doubt it works, and works well.

#1718 44 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I wouldn't trust those push connections.

Neither would I.

Look at the top fuse clips for F4 and F5. Wow.

#1719 44 days ago

I like the LEDs - and commented a long time ago why more didn't have them. I was shot down for being 'stupid' and how 'impossible' it was. Well, jerks, what do you say now? *cough*

That aside, why not just make J1 9 pins, like every other board out there? Seems like a waste to have two identical boards for ONE pin on a connector.

#1720 44 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

That aside, why not just make J1 9 pins, like every other board out there? Seems like a waste to have two identical boards for ONE pin on a connector.

Pity Bally didn't do what Stern did and use pin 3 on J1 as the secondary feature lamp power connection instead of adding that 9th pin. How many times have we seen people plug their non-keyed 8 pin housing in the wrong position or wired a 9 pin housing wrong.

The simple solution for that board now is to just move the 9th pin wire to pin 3 on those three Bally games using it (Kiss, Future Spa and Space Invaders) presuming that rectifier board has J1 pin 3 routed.

#1721 44 days ago
Quoted from bluespin:

What's the opinion on the nvram-weebly rectifier board? It's only $55 (fully assembled) delivered in US. Also available as a kit.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1055-nvramweeblycom/01123--new-bally-stern-rectifier-board-as-2518-18-ta-100

That's my board of choice, in kit form. I think the reason is there's so many of this board on the market is how basic it is for a while I thought I'd learn to make circuit boards and do one for myself. Then I found out I don't have the patience to learn a new tool right now.

#1722 44 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If you do use these no solder versions be sure to go back and occasionally re-tighten the screws on those terminals.

They are not screws, they are spring terminals that should not go loose over time. And to be clear, this is made for those that do not or cannot solder or do not want to pay someone to do it, Big Daddy is about to release a solder version which in my opinion is very nice.

#1723 44 days ago

Definitely not screws. I use these push in terminals all the time where I work. If the wires were always being tugged on then yeah, soldering or screw terminals, but these are just sitting there.

I just installed one I got from Xpin's site into my EK. Heck of a lot easier than soldering onto the bottom of the board. The original was so roasted I had wires on top of traces and wires from the connectors soldered to the board because the pins were gone. Total mess.

#1724 44 days ago

For those interested, these insert style terminals have a UL rating and to remove the wire once set, requires more than 5lbs of force to pull them out of the terminal.

I realize that there are others out there, I have used several over the years, all good. I decided to make my own because I like LED's under fuses to tell me if the fuse is good or bad. As far as soldering wires to the board while the transformer and mounting plate are still in the game, don't care for it to much. It's a balancing act with the board hanging there, wires floating all over. I just now strip the wires, push the button on the terminal, and insert the wire (I also tin my wire ends, it makes it easier). My teenage son did our SBM in a little less than 10 minutes.

#1725 43 days ago

I saw above someone drilling out locks. Pnball/arcade locks are often low quality wafer locks and can be picked by simple "raking" - you can get a wafer rake for cheap online. Optionally, jam in an old and wide flat blade screwdriver and torque it back and forth and you can often force it to turn enough to open. Saves a lot of trouble and mess.

#1726 43 days ago
Quoted from semicolin:

I saw above someone drilling out locks. Pnball/arcade locks are often low quality wafer locks and can be picked by simple "raking" - you can get a wafer rake for cheap online. Optionally, jam in an old and wide flat blade screwdriver and torque it back and forth and you can often force it to turn enough to open. Saves a lot of trouble and mess.

True.
But sometimes it's just fun to f*cking DESTROY something.

#1727 43 days ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

My teenage son did our SBM in a little less than 10 minutes.

You have to let me say this was just my second one, and I was still double checking myself:

XP-BLY2518-18 10 Mins (resized).PNG
#1728 43 days ago
Quoted from bluespin:

What's the opinion on the nvram-weebly rectifier board? It's only $55 (fully assembled) delivered in US. Also available as a kit.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1055-nvramweeblycom/01123--new-bally-stern-rectifier-board-as-2518-18-ta-100

Works great, recommended.

#1729 43 days ago

Ok gang, I'm back. I got the ribbon cables situated correctly. Right to left, and that got the machine to turn on, go through the 7 beeps, and the score displays come on. I can start a game, BUT there is absolutely nothing happening.

There is no power to the flippers, no power to anything on the pf. if I push the flipper buttons, I get just a TEENY amount of upwards movement from the right flipper but you can barely notice it.

What the hell do I check next?? I feel like I'm really close to getting it going, but the game just sits there, all GI lights and the background "thrumming" sound works, but the targets do not re-set. Something is amiss.

Please post things for me to check.

Appreciate the help!

-Nate

#1730 43 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Ok gang, I'm back. I got the ribbon cables situated correctly. Right to left, and that got the machine to turn on, go through the 7 beeps, and the score displays come on. I can start a game, BUT there is absolutely nothing happening.
There is no power to the flippers, no power to anything on the pf. if I push the flipper buttons, I get just a TEENY amount of upwards movement from the right flipper but you can barely notice it.
What the hell do I check next?? I feel like I'm really close to getting it going, but the game just sits there, all GI lights and the background "thrumming" sound works, but the targets do not re-set. Something is amiss.
Please post things for me to check.
Appreciate the help!
-Nate

Coil power.
Fuse under playfield. (And other fuses.)
SDB board.
Rectifier board.

.. Start from the coils, and work your way towards the transformer. (Not physically; I mean electrically.)

#1731 42 days ago

Coyote, thanks for the input. Ok, I did a really dumb thing, so it solved part of the problem, but I'm still not "outta the woods" yet. See pic, and you'll notice the damn plug was put on backwards, so once I turned that around this morning after comparing my plugs with someone's photo from pinside, my mouth dropped open and spoke the one word, "Dummy!!!"

Went downstairs and switched that plug around, fired-up the game, and got the following: Attract lighting working, score displays "somewhat" working, it looks like there are a few "wonky" digits - will deal with that later. The ball fed into the lane after pushing "start" (I have a new ROM with the half-score scoring and free play automatically set).

BUT - the machine, without launching the ball, continuously goes through the "re-set" motions, re-setting the targets and also indicating scoring, this is in a loop that just continues every 20 seconds or so.

Suggestions? Would that reversed plug have messed anything up or blown a fuse? The fuses looked fine on the power-board beneath the pf.

Thanks!

Nate

duh (resized).jpg
#1732 42 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

the machine, without launching the ball, continuously goes through the "re-set" motions, re-setting the targets and also indicating scoring, this is in a loop that just continues every 20 seconds or so.

Check the outhole switch in case it's stuck closed. This behavior you describe will happen if it thinks the ball is still in the outhole so it resets the playfield for the ball in play until the outhole switch opens.

#1733 41 days ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

For those interested, these insert style terminals have a UL rating and to remove the wire once set, requires more than 5lbs of force to pull them out of the terminal.
I realize that there are others out there, I have used several over the years, all good. I decided to make my own because I like LED's under fuses to tell me if the fuse is good or bad......

Having LEDs under each fuse is an excellent feature and I’ve done that on many of my own projects. That is a huge plus and a bonus for easy troubleshooting.

The picture in the image posted wasn’t clear on the terminal connection and they looked like the screw terminal version. Screw terminals are well known to cause issues in 3D printers, etc. While the spring variation may be better then the screw version it still isn’t one I’d prefer to use.

Did you also have pads to allow soldering so this could be universal and use either termination style? If not, why? Having both would cover those who really aren’t a fan of adding another connection point to eventually fail.

While those spring terminals make this an excellent test board and I think I may like one for myself just for testing. Unless it had a solder version it wouldn’t be one that I’d permanently install.

#1734 41 days ago

Tried out one of the xpin boards last night... Not as easy as I'd hoped to install. Many of the wires didn't reach the edges of the board without cutting many of the zip ties holding the harness together. Only one terminal for some of the pads despite there being two wires going to them. Using the terminals took some practice, the first few I thought I'd done and then a few wires later I found that they'd come out again. Trying to move one wire at a time from the old board was a mistake, should have found the color code chart and then cut them all off at once. Ended up still hunched over the machine for half an hour cutting, stripping, and tinning wires. But at least I wasn't trying to solder them to the board! Will probably buy another one next time I get a bally/Stern still, but having pads in the middle of the board for the odd wire that doesn't reach easily or keeps pulling out would be a nice option

#1735 41 days ago

Since I had LED'd my game, the second wires for the GI were trimmed a while back. Didn't need them because the GI current is running about 7A not 20A. The extra wire is only for all of that current.

With what you are describing though, I would suggest stripping those common wires, remove some of the strands, twist and then tin the end.

I did consider adding holes for those who want to solder but chose to not include because of space on the board and how I was running the copper. Still not out of the question though.

I appreciate the input!

#1736 41 days ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

With what you are describing though, I would suggest stripping those common wires, remove some of the strands, twist and then tin the end

Thats what I ended up doing, but especially with the solder on it, it barely fit into the slot, took a few tries. And in order to get them to twist together well, I had to strip them further, so you can still see a bit of the copper once inserted, which worries me (probably fine though)

#1737 41 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Thats what I ended up doing, but especially with the solder on it, it barely fit into the slot, took a few tries. And in order to get them to twist together well, I had to strip them further, so you can still see a bit of the copper once inserted, which worries me (probably fine though)

Can you post a pic of the end result Zac? I am curious to see what it ended up looking like

#1738 41 days ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

I appreciate the input!

There's unrelated rail traces underneath fuse clips; what kind of separation/insulation do you have to prevent any short circuit from happening?
When a fuse is installed in the clip, the lower edge of the clip flexes towards the board so this will put clip pressure against those traces if the clips were soldered against the board - are you relying purely on the PCB laminate to insulate?
X-Pin_Rectifier_board_traces.jpg

#1739 41 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Many of the wires didn't reach the edges of the board without cutting many of the zip ties holding the harness together.

Because of this, I've been including 4 zip ties with the boards for awhile now. Not only does clipping them make it easier to hook up, but tying them after gives it a cleaning look.

#1740 41 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

Can you post a pic of the end result Zac? I am curious to see what it ended up looking like

Here's one I did

XP-BLY2518-18-installed (resized).jpg
#1741 41 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

what kind of separation/insulation do you have to prevent any short circuit from happening?

Good question here are some answers/explanations:

* the fuse clip does have a slight gap under it, albeit a small gap, about 0.5mil, caused by the kink in the pin.
* I don't create a solid pad under the fuse clips here. When calculating what was required for the current load, it was not necessary.
* There is 30mil separation between the trace and pads on either side. PCB trace calculators usually state based on voltage and current for traces of this type a minimum of 12-15mils separation be maintained between different signals.
* I receive certification reports on all PCBs. I specify that the PCB will be constructed to IPC-610 Class 2 current revision standards. The soldermask thickness will be between 0.7 and 1.2 mils thick. The dielectric insulation of the soldermask isn't stipulated but typical soldermask is rated 1000V/mil thickness.

Thanks for asking Quench!

pasted_image (resized).png
#1742 41 days ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

* the fuse clip does have a slight gap under it, albeit a small gap, about 0.5mil, caused by the kink in the pin.

That slight 0.5mil gap will disappear when the fuse is installed because as I mentioned above the base side edges of the fuse clips bends downwards against the PCB when a fuse is installed.
Also, those 20 amp G.I fuse clips run hot. How will the laminate survive expansion/contraction of heat cycles over time with the base fuse clip sides pressing against it?
As is, those fuse clips probably need to sit 1/16" above the PCB. Or maybe install some mica under the fuse clip.

It seems to me there was enough space to route that 43VAC trace to the left side of the G.I fuse clip eliminating any potential risk.
Maybe a similar reroute could be done to the 43VDC trace running under the upper 43VAC fuse clip?

#1743 41 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Check the outhole switch in case it's stuck closed. This behavior you describe will happen if it thinks the ball is still in the outhole so it resets the playfield for the ball in play until the outhole switch opens.

Thanks, I'll check the switch and report back - appreciate it.

-Nate

#1744 37 days ago

Ok, I checked the switch on the outhole. It opens once the ball is sent to the shooter lane - But, I am still getting "phantom scoring" and sounds with the ball simply sitting in the shooter lane.......................

Am I correct thinking that something is crossed somewhere, or something is shorting against something metallic beneath the playfield somewhere in the wiring?

Before I hit the start button, the machine is quiet, and the attract lights are on, but once I hit the start button, the thing goes wacky!!!

Thanks again for any tips,

Nate

#1745 37 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

But, I am still getting "phantom scoring" and sounds with the ball simply sitting in the shooter lane

Ah, I missed the part where you said it's scoring.

Raise all the drop targets and remove the ball from the outhole.
Put the machine in switch test mode. What switch number is reported in the player displays?

#1746 36 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Ok, I checked the switch on the outhole. It opens once the ball is sent to the shooter lane - But, I am still getting "phantom scoring" and sounds with the ball simply sitting in the shooter lane.......................
Am I correct thinking that something is crossed somewhere, or something is shorting against something metallic beneath the playfield somewhere in the wiring?
Before I hit the start button, the machine is quiet, and the attract lights are on, but once I hit the start button, the thing goes wacky!!!
Thanks again for any tips,
Nate

Can you record a video, with sound?

#1747 33 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Ok, I checked the switch on the outhole. It opens once the ball is sent to the shooter lane - But, I am still getting "phantom scoring" and sounds with the ball simply sitting in the shooter lane.......................
Am I correct thinking that something is crossed somewhere, or something is shorting against something metallic beneath the playfield somewhere in the wiring?
Before I hit the start button, the machine is quiet, and the attract lights are on, but once I hit the start button, the thing goes wacky!!!
Thanks again for any tips,
Nate

The phantom scorn ring is most likely one of the rollover stars pushing against the switch. Use a leaf adjuster tool and make any needed adjustments.

#1748 33 days ago
Quoted from bluespin:

The phantom scorn ring is most likely one of the rollover stars pushing against the switch. Use a leaf adjuster tool and make any needed adjustments.

Phantom scorn ring......man, that sounds evil.

#1749 33 days ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Phantom scorn ring......man, that sounds evil.

Sounds like a bad metal band song.

#1750 33 days ago
Quoted from bluespin:

Sounds like a bad metal band song.

Cirith Ungol has a song called Finger of Scorn. Close enough? You could put a ring on it.

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