(Topic ID: 53496)

Metallica switch row ghosting problem

By swampfire

10 years ago


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4balls+right_outlane.jpg
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#1 10 years ago

Patrick @ Stern has been helping me via email, but he's on vacation for a few weeks. I thought I'd throw this out to the problem-solving crowd. Picture 1 shows the "active switch" test with the 4 balls in the trough (the 4 lit dots together). Picture 2 shows what happens when I activate the right return switch: all of the ball trough switches are "ghosted" from the 2nd row down to the 4th row.

4balls.jpg4balls.jpg 4balls+right_outlane.jpg4balls+right_outlane.jpg

#2 10 years ago

This causes all sorts of problems, like Grave Marker MB starting when you drain the ball.

Here are all the things Patrick and I have tried:

1. Test all the switch diodes.
2. Replace the drop target opto board.
3. Disconnect the opto board for Sparky and Grave Marker
4. Reseat switch connectors on CPU board.

I'm at a dead-end now. Tomorrow I'll try switching out the trough assembly with CSI, but I'm just shotgunning it at this point.

#3 10 years ago

First, the diagram is bad. It combines rows. So it's actually the 3rd row ghosting onto the 7th row.

I'd use standard switch matrix test procedures. Disconnect the switch row and col connectors from the board and use a wire to trigger one of the switches. See if the row 7 switch also triggers with the row three switch. This will isolate the issue to either board or play field.

#4 10 years ago

Thank you! That's the procedure I used on my Space Station about 10 years ago, and I'd forgotten it. Much better than a shotgun approach.

#5 10 years ago

Please let us know what you discover

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Please let us know what you discover

When I do the row/column probe test, do I need to put a diode in series with the test wire? If so, does the band go toward the column or the row? I just want to be sure I don't zap my SAM board.

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

When I do the row/column probe test, do I need to put a diode in series with the test wire? If so, does the band go toward the column or the row? I just want to be sure I don't zap my SAM board.

No diode needed if you're removing the switch matrix connectors and just testing the board. Diode would be needed if you're testing under the playfield within the switch matrix.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#8 10 years ago

I tried the switch matrix probe test and didn't see any ghosting. It strikes me that the ghosting is very specific: it only happens when the right outlane switch is activated. I've already replaced the diode on that switch (no help). But I wonder if I should instead be looking at all of the diodes for row 7 (where the ghosting appears).

If I understand the ghosting correctly, what's happening is that J1-P3 (green/red) is somehow shorting to J1-P5 (green/yellow) when I activate the right outlane switch. So I should be able to SEE that short at the connector with my DMM. I'll try that next, which would really confirm that the problem is on the playfield somewhere.

#9 10 years ago

Unfortunately I do not see a short between the 2 switch drives when I activate the right outlane, so I'm back to square one. I'll call Stern Support on Monday and see if they can send me a new CPU board.

#10 10 years ago

Check the diodes on your switches in the problem row and column. I bet one is soldered on backwards.

I had a similar problem on my Avengers. A stand up target switch would activate when you closed the left inlane switch. But only if Hulk was turned to switch position 1.

The problem was the diode on the left inlane was soldered on backwards.

2 months later
#11 10 years ago

I finally figured this out last night. The diode on the Right Outlane switch was facing the right way, but the switch was wired backward! Meaning, the return wire was mounted to the "common" lug instead of the "no connect" lug. I somehow missed that when I tested the diode and checked the relative orientation of the 2 wires and the diode band. They LOOKED okay...

The lesson I learned from this is to always go back to the most likely cause periodically, even when I think I've ruled it out. I could have saved myself hours of board-swapping and other troubleshooting.

I also learned that it's best not to buy a game in the first few weeks it's available. I'll wait a few months next time.

#12 10 years ago

Good find! I'm a little surprised(but not that much) that they let it get shipped out like that.

I'm curious about markmon's post. On the latest Sterns, are there not 16 switches per row(as in Shrek, BDK, etc) or have they gone back to eight?

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