I don't think I'll be posting any video proof haha. Ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't think I've done square block into the left ramp though, at least not that I can remember.

I do agree the captive ball on the pro is still better, but you can combo on the LE as well. That's all I wanted to point out

Ya Hammer and seetrough playfield Coffin MB is very Satisfying !!

I bet some more things will be added to the Hammer...Just speculing abd i bet Lyman as some idea
already but like at the end of one of the mode the Hammer will drop a few times and you will get hammer sound or/and James screaming Justiceeeee! I hope the Hammer will do more cool stuff in there!

Well, unless it's the only game that you are ever going to play again, you *will* see it when you play your other games. Right?

I love My brothers LE,i played around 20 games on the Pro and when i went back
on the LE i really felt like i was missing the Cool Toys,interactive Cross and Snake
the Hammer, the Coffin multiball locks and the Spinners LE/Premimum takes the game
to another level.

Lightning on Prem/LE is also Awesome and unique with those changing colors LED

I like the Prem road cabinet looks nice if i get some $ i will buy a Premium.

No, all my games are side by side, you don't see any side art. Side are is pointless to game play and has no value to me as a pinball player. While I agree there is "cool" side art, I find it hard to believe anyone would put there machine in a spot and prefer to stare at the side art instead of playing the game. This is why I will never understand how side art fade has any impact on value. I think its just an excuse to knock money off the machine.

I understand sideart does not effect the game,neither the playfiled art or backglass art
but if i was to pick,the skittles Cabinet would be my last choice.

My 2 cents

i was rolling eyes also and asking myself how old is this guy!

Art is one of the coolest thing in Pinball.But not only to stare at them,play them
fix them,tweek them and make them more pretty by adding mod toys!

I'ts all Pinball!

I used to think side art and fading didn't matter, until I got a few really nice machines. That made the faded/banged up machines stand out like a sore thumb. Games that are prone to fade like BSD, IJ or SS are much more desirable if unfaded. As far as Metallica goes, the only thing that rivals the 'skittles' cab is the LE. The roadcase Premium sure doesn't and the translite is the nail in the coffin on that one.

Brian

That's fine, you guys buy machines based on side art, Ill continue to focus on buying *pinball* machines and rate the playfield art and design. In fact, why don't you stop collecting pinball and just buy pictures, since that's what is so important to you.

And since you are rolling your eyes RobT, how does side art impact gameplay?

I think the cabinet on the pro looks way nicer than the LE. The premium is the same. With the purple trim added from refinery, the cabinet of the pro is way better looking than the LE, IMO.

You really cannot combo those shots. At least not anywhere near consistently. We put considerable time into the two side-by-side. I have the money and really wanted a premium. But after playing, pro it was. This is way different than just owning an LE and trying to combo the shot. Since you didn't play them side-by-side, you simply don't know what you're missing.

On the LE, shooting the plate usually sends the ball (slowly) back at the flippers. The plate takes a decent hit to register the shot. On the pro, hitting the captive ball usually sends it towards the snake or sparky. Barely touching the captive ball registers a shot. On the LE, its possible but difficult to hit sparky from the right flipper. On the pro, its very easy to hit sparky from the right flipper.

Never went pro on any machine. Was about to order my premium but I like the pro better. To me the hammer and the animated snake on the premium/LE is a disapointment. Was expecting a lot more. Personally I think the hammer is too big and have a goofy look. I though the snake would chew and talk, that's animated. No code will help that.

Ordered my Pinball Refinery Pro with all the options.

So call me crazy but prefer the skittles and snake with fangs (even if they won't last much) to the big hammer toothless turtle.

The thing I'll miss the most is the lightshow of the premium.

Just my opinion

It may be your opinion, but you nailed it. I hear side art makes the game so much better though, so you should probably buy some custom side art and put it on. Is that an option from where you are ordering it? I guess it must be since side art is so important to the gameplay.

The LE cabinet is the best by far, and I can combo the block to snake easily, and block to Sparky is a little tougher but happens fairly often. I have played the pro too, and do agree the ball is better overall. I'd still rather own the LE. The pro cabinet art is ugly IMO, I do like the roadcase one though.

Enjoy your pro, I'll enjoy my LE, it's all good

Why do people say it c'ant combo on the LE/Prem we do it all the time,Newton block snake,
Newton block Sparky.

Any LE owner can easily buy a newton ball and replace the cube if they want. The code will get better for the LE as far as the ball lock. The snake add a ball is a disaster on the pro and it looks like the code will get changed for that version.

The Pro/Monsters premium cabinet art is nice but can not compare to the LE. The LE is original Metallica cover art and is by far the best and the back glass is the best since BSM.

The LED light show is incredible on the LE/Premium (especially graveyard SJ) and will most like,y only get better.

Pro owners are happy with their game and its a great value. But I can't imagine 10 people out of 100 would take the Pro over the Premium if they were offered both as a gift.

I don't know dude but your sound more and more like your getting way over the top with your Pro debate. Almost like your trying to convince yourself... a sure sign you really wish you owned an LE. Just enjoy your Pro but please don't go overboard with your assessment. I'm glad you feel the Pro is better in every way... sure it is.

+1

The beauty the Fun and gameplay are way
better on the Le/prem

don't know if my PREMIUM is loosening up ,or what, but last night at the ARIZONA METALLICA meetup, I got 2 COFFIN multiballs on one ball...(freaking FORGOT what to do on Seek and Destroy though :wall)

Yeah, uh, Mark, you had done some really good Pro vs LE comparisons, but now you are losing credibility...especially with saying the Pro cabinet is the best looking of the bunch. I know that's completely subjective, but still...

This is the most ridiculous response I can imagine. There's nothing over the top and I do not wish I had a premium. Wtf, if I wished I had a premium then I would but a premium. I'm trying to explain why the newton ball makes the game so much more enjoyable. Nowhere did I state the pro is better in every way. The premium has the same cabinet art as the pro so that's a wash. I think the LE art isn't that great compared and the powder from refinery looks way better than the LE powder. I've stated numerous times all the improvements on the LE and acknowledged them. The only one that is a downer is the captive ball, and unfortunately that is a big one regarding gameplay. Something you may not realize unless you compare both games in a home environment. Other then the captive ball, most the other premium features are better. I'm definitely not saying the pro is better in every way. I am saying the pro is a lot more fun due solely to the captive ball vs the hammer.

I really like the dirty Donnie artwork. I also think the xmen pro cabinet is the best of the bunch. It's not a big deal. I don't buy based on cabinet. But since that became part of the discussion, I prefer pro cabinet over LE.

I really considered this before deciding to just keep my pro. In fact, this is exactly what I wanted to do. But with a bit of testing, I determined you cannot. The newton ball will prevent most balls from coffin hitting the magnet. The locks are not counted on the LE until the ball is physically captured. It takes 5-10-10 hits to lock each of the three balls on the pro. On the LE, its the same number of hits but it just enables eligibility for coffin lock. The ball isn't locked until its physically locked. Even with the hammer and magnet disabled, you can hit 25 times the plate / captive ball but the locks aren't counted. At one point I had around 45 coffin hits but coffin mb never started. Therefore, if I replaced the plate with a newton ball, I wouldn't be able to start coffin multiball. If the software changes where when the magnet and hammer are disabled that ball locks become virtual, I will probably buy a dirty Donnie premium at that time and remove the hammer and install a captive ball.

Unfortunately, stern generally does not put much time into debugging and fixing failed or disabled features support though. It's same with xmen iceman if you disable the moving ramp. Software does not account for the impossibility of hitting the left inlane switch and you can't complete iceman. I had to add a physical switch to make up for this.

The snake add-a-ball is not a "disaster" on the pro. It's pretty neat because you can store a second ball into the snake as a strategic move. Because there is no switch telling the game this happened, the game does not know. This is risky because the snake kickout when holding two balls often drains one when they both kick out. So it adds to the risk / reward and strategy while playing. I'm not sure why you would consider this a disaster. I don't think it needs any changing, and I doubt it will be reworked separately from the LE.

Well of course not. You could sell the premium, pocket cash, and buy a pro. Why would anyone turn that down?

Wanna bet it doesn't get changed?? Yes any feature that results in a stuck ball is a disaster. While you may not mind it at home but the Pro would never be utilized in a tourney cause of this as it would result is a stuck ball many times.

I agree that the Pro is just as fun as the Premium. Time will tell if the Premium improves over the Pro with later code. So far, the difference is minimal.

I do feel it is a mistake if a ball can get stuck somewhere and not be detected. Is it really different than if a ball gets stuck anyplace on a playfield when multiball is in play?

On a game like Shadow, you can strategically lock one or two balls in a kickout hole for temporary double or triple scoring during MB. But an extra ball getting stuck in the snake during multiball is just a bogus MB scoring opportunity with just a single ball in play. It's not how multiball scoring is intended.

Undetected balls in the snake seem to be as much of a mistake as the AC/DC cannon auto firing up the right ramp for ball lock in early versions of the code. Some may have called that a strategy too, but it was changed in later code. Players will always exploit known weaknesses.

as I said before..LIGHT SHOW alone is WAY MORE than minimal difference...adding LEDs is not even gonna be close

totally agree with this. i voted with my wallet, i voted premium.

Based on the pins Markmon owns and has owned, I am pretty sure he could buy one if he wanted one. You guys assume way too much about people who post. More times than not, it's those with the most money that are the most fiscally responsible. I am a cheap bastard and if I don't feel the LE/premium is a good bang for your buck............I would never allow myself to buy it at the NIB rate. Heck I am still too cheap to pay for a iphone, so I carry around a flip phone and an itouch.

I think the Premiums are worth the extra money and don't begrudge anyone who buys them.

I just decided I'd rather have 3 Pros instead of 2 Premiums (at least this time around). Gotta expand the game room from a pin perspective after making more room in the basement.

my god i wish i had this luxury of space.

now onto iron maiden!

They are both great. I chose the premium. The pro is very fun as well.

I'm not sure I'd call it a luxury of space, but maybe that's because your 10 pins have you pressed for open spots.

And my wife looked at me like I was nuts (more so than usual) when I told her I think we have space for a maximum of 8 pins downstairs. She may be a bit nervous that I'm going to try and hit that maximum sooner rather than later. She doesn't realize after that I'd either overtake another area of the basement or look for a bigger house.

They both look great. I've played a pro and had a blast. For the price the pro version comes with a lot of nice features. The premium though just looks sick. I like the different type of mechanical toys that are found on the premium and of course the LED's are a nice touch.

I agree with Markmon, its not a disaster. I frequently put two balls in the snake to increase my chances of making shots and not losing due to random house balls. I have rarely ever had the machine go into ball search when this occurs, so its far from a disaster. A stuck ball is a ball that is in a place that the machine can not recover from, and that is not what is happening here.

I just downgraded to the Pro. Played it and loved it. Having gone LE or Premium in the past and then played Pros I am focusing on Pros.

Randy,I think you better put in some more time on mine.
Make a better decision that way.

I think the premium has a lot more to it for sure.
The spinners make a huge difference on there own in scoring.

The snake lock during multiball is better on premium,less chance of putting two balls in there at once.

Hammer lock is a cool feature,it will get better with code.

Led's on premium,huge difference from pro,I know you can add them to the pro.
I don't think the lighting is the same code wise though.

No contest...mine is very well tweeked and a funking blast

So much more Fun...Pro is good too.

Now that I've played both (well the LE not a Premium technically) I dislike the hammer so much I'd get a Pro just to not have it. That's totally leaving all the technical issues with it aside, I hope Stern fixes those for everyone, but it's just freakishly ugly and in the way to my eyes, and even when it works it's really kinda lame and unimpressive.

Other people may feel different!

Pretty sure Markmon had a NIB LE and sold it. Plus with all the money he blows on powder coating and glass he could get another.

I am poised to get the Pro or Premium and am having buyers confusion. I have not played the premium and the only apprehension is that hammer. First I like the clean shot at Sparky, second I hear it is out of sync, third I heard it creates wear and fourth I think it looks out place. I get the rationale to purchase the premium but would love for a book to fall out of the sky with all the answers to the pinball dilemma. Can I have some insight into from people who have played both and or have owned or own one or the other. Thank you in advance

Get Premium!

Everything you said is incorrect. Most of the negatives in this thread are from before significant code updates. Aurich shit on it years ago, but bought an LE. Premium is the best. Hammer is awesome and doesn't block anything or wear anything.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference; but I actually prefer the look of the pro without a hammer at all. It doesn't help that I have played my pro for a year, nearly every day. I do love the inserts/GI and spinners though. Thankfully I have added spinners (even though they are not properly integrated) and will soon be able to add the GI. I am a very happy and satisfied MET pro owner. JMHO of course.

I just struggled with this decision for the past week. Went with the premium. The hammer problem is from past code. It's awesome now! Good luck with your choice. I feel your pain.

I don't agree with Markmon often. Probably like 2.5% of the time. But on this subject, I like the pro better as well. I really don't like how the hammer blocks the view and the minimal effect it gives off. If I could get a premium and a pro for the same price. I'd take the premium, ONLY to sell it or trade it for a pro + cash. Or sell it, buy a pro and another 2 or 3 games. Some games the premium is almost a must. AC/DC, TF and such, but with this game, that's not the case.

Go Premium, you can always go back to a Pro if you don't like it..

Premium without question.

I had a pro a few months. Absolutely love the game and decided to trade it in toward the new run of premium.

Some games have more worthwhile LE/premium features than other and that opinion will vary person to person.

Do you think MET is one of your favorite pins or bands? Go premium. Just like the band or pin ok or doubt it's a long term keeper? Go pro.

Once it arrives my MET premium is never leaving. My favorite Stern and in my top 3 of all time beside Jackbot and Twilight Zone.

My vote is for the pro..mainly because I didn't like the hammer either, with the light kit coming out soon, it's going to be awesome.

I agree.
I love how the Mod community has made it so easy to get our Pro models of Stern games close to the level of the LE's for much less money. What a great hobby.

PRO! Depending on your price though, you can get a pro for around 4500 - 4800 nib, or used around 4-4300. Premium you are looking at another 2k at least. Is 2k worth it for the hammer and lights? If it is, do it! With all the mods and the new lightshow coming, I would rather save and put it towards the next pin you want.