(Topic ID: 50762)

Metallica Club - Ride the Lightning!

By swampfire

10 years ago


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#6701 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

That is why you buy a later run, after the game has been established.
First runs can get a little odd sometimes, but you SHOULD have had this exact manual (in a plastic bag taped to the playfield glass when NIB), not some 30-page xerox bull$#@!.
If you received your "second owner", that would answer the equation.
I hope Stern has not pulled another "fast one" with manuals being an "upgrade" with Premium and LE models, but if they have, that sends crinkles on my brow.

The manuals are an "upgrade" for premium and le only. I purchased a late run Metallica LED and have the same Xerox copied non-manual in mine.
The goody bag looks the same as my friends premium though.

#6702 7 years ago

Ok so who has modded a manual?! Anyone.. Anyone?

#6703 7 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

Ok so who has modded a manual?! Anyone.. Anyone?

I could put led strips in it.

#6704 7 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

» YouTube video

I have yet to pull the trigger on the total light show....must be getting closer to decision time. This looks funky cool

#6705 7 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

O it can be done

I have a fog machine MOD underneath my BSD cab everytime the MIST MULTIBALL is triggered. Fancy tech

#6706 7 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

I'm considering buying a Met pro, manufactured early to mid 2014 old style back box. Does this fall into the questionable time frame, although it is refinery edition. I'm just concerned before I make a deal.

It's not a reason to buy a game or not. You only have a risk of encountering this, and if you do, simply listen for the click and turn the game off when you close the door.. end of fire drill. You can also buy the replacement kit for $30.

Don't get wound up over this.. it's just an artifact they have with the game that if left ignored, can lead to a coil lock on.

#6707 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

I have yet to pull the trigger on the total light show....must be getting closer to decision time. This looks funky cool

The total light show is my favorite mod on my met and I have alot. Come check it out anytime

#6708 7 years ago
Quoted from Rickwh:

My Pro from 2013 had nothing like that. Just some Xeroxed black and white pages.. And the pdf I have found online didn't look like a complete book either.

the pro's didn't come with a printed manual. only the LEs and premiums

#6709 7 years ago

He's ALIVE!!!!!!!
Waxed and ready for a few games!
And did I unstaple the goodie bag?
Eff yeah. Right off. It's a keeper!
Thank you all again.

image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

#6710 7 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

the pro's didn't come with a printed manual. only the LEs and premiums

This is actually quite sad.
Okee dokee...
I knew up until around 2010, all Stern games INCLUDED FULL MANUALS!
My NIB LOTR from 2004 had a "real" manual.
It is somewhat unbelievable games have no manuals, as they are critical for maintenance requirements.
I am wondering what operators are thinking these days on this area, other than yelling to their techs, "hey, make sure you download the manual off the website, and print it out"!

More cost savings bull$#%@ for profit.
Rails, lock bars, slides, knockers, etc, etc.
I still do not think Stern has been very innovative since their "return" to pinball production.
They certainly have adapted to the industry and market, but at a reduced effort from BLY/WMS/GTB in comparison.
The problem is most people have not been around to see the changes.

#6711 7 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

He's ALIVE!!!!!!!
Waxed and ready for a few games!
And did I unstaple the goodie bag?
Eff yeah. Right off. It's a keeper!
Thank you all again.

Why does your game with a premium/LE PF have a pro translite?
Is this a Monster Premium (it looks that way with the speaker panel)?
Is this personal preference or did Stern give someone a "freight train ramming"?

Inquiring minds want to know...

#6712 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Why does your game with a premium/LE PF have a pro translite?

Probably a Roadcase edition & he was only able to source a pro translite.

#6713 7 years ago

What's wrong with "Beaver teeth, massive forehead Lars"?

lars-ulrich_(resized).jpglars-ulrich_(resized).jpg

#6714 7 years ago
Quoted from moto_cat:

Probably a Roadcase edition & he was only able to source a pro translite.

The original Metallica Road Case cabinets had a black speaker panel, and square speaker cutouts.
Some of the last ones had round speaker cutouts.
I have seen NONE with the upgraded speaker panel decal that was used for additional runs of the Monster Premium.
This makes even less sense because it does match the cabinet artwork AT ALL, and this is the upgraded metal backbox because you can clearly see the angle on the speaker panel that was changed to reduce glare.

Something does not seem right here, I hope I am mistaken in this case.
My NIB "spider sense" is tingling again...

#6715 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

The original Metallica Road Case cabinets had a black speaker panel, and square speaker cutouts.
Some of the last ones had round speaker cutouts.
I have seen NONE with the upgraded speaker panel decal that was used for additional runs of the Monster Premium.
This makes even less sense because it does match the cabinet artwork AT ALL, and this is the upgraded metal backbox because you can clearly see the angle on the speaker panel that was changed to reduce glare.
Something does not seem right here, I hope I am mistaken in this case.
My NIB "spider sense" is tingling again...

The latest run w/ the new backbox have the round speaker, tilted DMD & speaker panel decal. (not my game in the pic)

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#6716 7 years ago

You can download the full manuals on Sterns website. It sucks because they should include the full printed manual but we live in a electronic world.

#6717 7 years ago

"Happy Metallica Days" with whatever hybrid machines are offered are now by Stern. It has become difficult to discern what is being produced. New combinations of parts, I was not aware.

If the owner is satisfied, fantastic.
I hope this road case version actually included a manual.

#6718 7 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

He's ALIVE!!!!!!!
Waxed and ready for a few games!
And did I unstaple the goodie bag?
Eff yeah. Right off. It's a keeper!
Thank you all again.

Next 'mod' I'd get is some invisiglass, or change the fluorescent tube to cut down the reflection.
I know that you probably turn the lights off when you play, but even so.

#6719 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

I knew up until around 2010, all Stern games INCLUDED FULL MANUALS! <snip> It is somewhat unbelievable games have no manuals, as they are critical for maintenance requirements.
<snip>Rails, lock bars, slides, knockers, etc, etc.<snip>

yeah, I agree that many of the changes that stern has made is strictly to help preserve their "bottom line", but to be honest, I think that the luggage lock-downs are actually a bit nicer and more sturdy than the old b/w lock down receiver. I've seen way too many games lately where the brass screws were not set properly and the lock down bar is loose and/or ends up damaged because the metal used isn't as thick and sturdy as it once was. (yep, yet another cost saving measure. but one that all of the current pinball manufacturers are guilty of)

I think that stern's downloadable manual solution has it's pluses and minuses. yeah, you're not getting a physical, printed manual if you're a pro owner, but the digital versions are easy to search, and accessible for operations and home users alike. you don't have to worry about the digital version getting all dog-eared, smudged or otherwise messed up and if you can't locate it, downloading it again is just a few clicks away.

if I recall, JJP owners didn't receive a manual for their machines either, but that $100 "tome" for WOZ must have weighted at least 3-4 lbs and was out of date even before it was printed given all of the changes and updates that have been made to the game since launch.

it's much more cost effective for a company to keep the latest version of their guides in electronic form vs. having to scrap whatever remaining stockpiled out-of-date stuff is still sitting around when changes occur.

personally, I love the physical manual, but found it's just as easy (if not more so) to view the digital versions rather than have to sort through an original guide and potentially a stack of service update addendum's

#6720 7 years ago

The GoT LE I got NIB in December did not come with a manual, so my guess is that Stern won't provide printed manuals for any of their games anymore. I don't know if it was a cost saving measure, a way to get games shipped more quickly, or a way to keep more update information available. But, I can't think of any consumer goods that come with a full manual anymore. It easier for most people to search for what is needed online or in an electronic document.

#6721 7 years ago

I guess we can always find something to complain about in the pinball world. Manuals to me are not one of them. I'm by no means a "tree huger" but printing out those manual to me is even irresponsible. That is a lot of waste for the very few people that actually need to use them. Everybody (at least that would own a newer pinball machine) has a smart phone and/or a computer/tablet so they can easily get what they need. If someone absolutely has to have a printed manual they can print it themselves.

#6722 7 years ago

Discovered this last night.
I don't know what to say... part of me loves it a lot, but I feel strangely bad about it haha.

They have others if you dare to dig...

#6723 7 years ago

My NIB MET Monsters Premium (delivered Feb 2016) came with a printed manual.

I store original manuals in plastic zip-locs and print out the PDFs for marking up, making notes, etc.

#6724 7 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Discovered this last night.
I don't know what to say... part of me loves it a lot, but I feel strangely bad about it haha.
» YouTube video
They have others if you dare to dig...

Just so wrong...........

#6725 7 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

Just so wrong...........

Then I don't want to be right. lol
Seriously, I found that a whole lot of fun. lol

Curse this thread, every time I come back it makes me want to get a Color DMD for the game. I need to play more.

#6726 7 years ago

Just ordered my Pro led, Will have it next week.....Automated had them in stock..... Now I have to read this whole post to find out what mods are a must....

#6727 7 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

Curse this thread, every time I come back it makes me want to get a Color DMD for the game. I need to play more.

Quoted from mtp78:

Just ordered my Pro led, Will have it next week.....Automated had them in stock..... Now I have to read this whole post to find out what mods are a must....

MET's ColorDMD is one of the best I've seen and consequently a "must mod" in my book.

#6728 7 years ago

My point was already stated, owners continue to ask questions that are directly answered in the manual or can be interpreted with use of the manual. It seems part of the reason is they do not have manual in the first place.
Sometimes problems can be averted if the game shipped with a FULL manual.
Some here even stated they did not know where to go to download them...

I am not complaining about Stern not shipping manuals, exclusively, read the below information carefully, as I do not say things for one reason only:

If collectors think manuals are dinosaurs or a waste of paper, I challenge anyone to repair a PCB without a schematic from an actual manual.
In fact, taking apart assemblies is 10X easier WITH a manual, than doing a "Where's Waldo".
People that have disassembled a EM score reel will know what I am talking about here.
Lord help you if you decide to try and not understand the parts.

Operators and owners need paper manuals in order to directly reference them while repairing and maintenance.
A game manual is not "optional", unless someone has no intention of maintaining a machine, which is becoming a standard.
Many machines have subsidiary independent schematic and parts manuals for additional reference, people are not even aware exist, until an owner pipes up and helps another with their problem by referencing the said manuals. Owner then goes, what manual was this?
Answer, the manuals that SHIPPED with the game.
Whitewater for example has THREE not one (not considering the operator handbook), and collectors go "Wat?...."
Metallica actually has another manual, which is not shipped with the game.
This is the Stern parts listing catalog and reference manual.

Now, here is something that is REALLY important.
Did people know that many actual manuals are still not available online, so they cannot be printed out?
Many have never been scanned, and probably never will be, UNLESS a collector contributes to the community?
Not only that, but many manuals quality in comparison to originals are complete a$$, and partially unreadable?
So people are so annoyed and frustrated, they should be because the information is not available, not my explanation.

Ultimately, an electronic manual is not going to work on a smart phone and the type font and the screen are both too small.
No one zooms around a schematic trying to follow the "yellow brick road" on a wire diagram on a smart phone.
Tablets are NOT big enough for proper schematics, unless there is one I am unaware the size of a 30 inch LCD people carry in an oversized suitcase.
This is not type of "paint by numbers" gaming device.

#6729 7 years ago

Just print it out FFS. Shipping paper around the world is archaic.

#6730 7 years ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Just ordered my Pro led, Will have it next week.....Automated had them in stock..... Now I have to read this whole post to find out what mods are a must....

I can tell ya of two so you don't have to search.....my leg light-ups and beatmasters shooter housing light up.

#6731 7 years ago

Not trying to be argumentative but most of this is easily rectified without a paper manual that's a hundred plus pages.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Some here even stated they did not know where to go to download them...

So we should print manuals because people can't go to sterns home page? Instead of a manual, just put another sticker on the lockbar that states - "full user manual is available at ________". Just like the sticker to call for support.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

If collectors think manuals are dinosaurs or a waste of paper, I challenge anyone to repair a PCB without a schematic from an actual manual.

So that piece of paper is some how more detailed than the piece of paper that is uploaded to the website? If I need that one piece of paper then I can print it. My table is the same size as a standard piece of paper. When I load the manual it is the same size as the paper. I don't comprehend the complication.

Remember, we are talking about Stern here. Not Bally, Williams, Gotlieb, Data East, etc. Some of those manuals had fold outs which I would agree are very helpful. I can't think of any new sterns that have those fold outs.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

In fact, taking apart assemblies is 10X easier WITH a manual, than doing a "Where's Waldo".

Agreed. Those same images are in the online manual. Again, my tablet is the same size as the paper. My computer monitor is even bigger...

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Operators and owners need paper manuals in order to directly reference them while repairing and maintenance.

No they don't. Do you really need a manual to change rubbers, replace coils, clean a PF, etc? A manual really only helps when you are taking apart those one off parts (like the snake assembly) or doing electrical diagnostics. And again, that info is at a finger tip.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

A game manual is not "optional", unless someone has no intention of maintaining a machine, which is becoming a standard.

Nobody has once said it was optional to have one. They are there and easily obtainable.

At this point we will have to agree to disagree but not one of your arguments justifies the need to have a paper manual shipped with every game. They all just state the importance of having a manual available of which manuals are available. If not having a paper one bugs you so much, just print it off. This is one change stern made that I will fully and vocally support them on.

#6732 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

My point was already stated, owners continue to ask questions that are directly answered in the manual or can be interpreted with use of the manual. It seems part of the reason is they do not have manual in the first place.
Sometimes problems can be averted if the game shipped with a FULL manual.
Some here even stated they did not know where to go to download them...
I am not complaining about Stern not shipping manuals, exclusively, read the below information carefully, as I do not say things for one reason only:
If collectors think manuals are dinosaurs or a waste of paper, I challenge anyone to repair a PCB without a schematic from an actual manual.
In fact, taking apart assemblies is 10X easier WITH a manual, than doing a "Where's Waldo".
People that have disassembled a EM score reel will know what I am talking about here.
Lord help you if you decide to try and not understand the parts.
Operators and owners need paper manuals in order to directly reference them while repairing and maintenance.
A game manual is not "optional", unless someone has no intention of maintaining a machine, which is becoming a standard.
Many machines have subsidiary independent schematic and parts manuals for additional reference, people are not even aware exist, until an owner pipes up and helps another with their problem by referencing the said manuals. Owner then goes, what manual was this?
Answer, the manuals that SHIPPED with the game.
Whitewater for example has THREE not one (not considering the operator handbook), and collectors go "Wat?...."
Metallica actually has another manual, which is not shipped with the game.
This is the Stern parts listing catalog and reference manual.
Ultimately, an electronic manual is not going to work on a smart phone and the type font and the screen are both too small.
No one zooms around a schematic trying to follow the "yellow brick road" on a wire diagram on a smart phone.
Tablets are NOT big enough for proper schematics, unless there is one I am unaware the size of a 30 inch LCD.
This is not type of "paint by numbers" gaming device.

I agree, there's nothing like having a hard copy manual at your disposal. I've tried using a smart phone with their tiny screen to search an on line manual and it's a royal pain especially when you have to make calls WHILE your looking at a manual. We are waaay to dependent on this tech crap that they tell us we NEED. I'm not going to buy a lap top computer with a wireless set-up so I can bring it down stairs into my gameroom to look at diagrams and such while I work on a game. A $5-$10 hard copy manual makes waaaay more sense to have then spending hundreds of dollars on something to duplicate what I have upstairs. What happens when my hard copy manual slides off the pin next to the one I'm working on.....nothing. Now what happens when my new $300 computer slides off and hits the floor?

#6733 7 years ago

8 foot "Paper manual" (batteries not included).
I can give new Stern versions as well, if I dig through my archives.
Some do have fold outs, but what is needed is acquiring the secondary WhiteStar/SAM manuals beyond the basic operator manuals that do not include them. Most people are not really aware of these for their games in general, but many are "generic" now.
I don't know what SPIKE systems use now for their singular master board schematic.

Yes, actual chipboard documents are much more detailed than the basic manuals.
Yes, operators actually reference manuals for more than disassembly and electronics, like feature adjustments, audit controls, standard adjustments, and even rubber ring sizes.
Yes, paper copies are more detailed than online versions, this for example is a second "user" copy of my original document (I keep my first copy of the original safe for reproduction, because my original is becoming more fragile even with good paper), many scans are crap.

Someone once said, "we are only as good as our batteries", now the quote has returned again and nothing has changed.

20160413_135404_(resized).jpg20160413_135404_(resized).jpg

#6734 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

8 foot "Paper manual" (batteries not included).
Someone once said, "we are only as good as our batteries", now the quote has returned again and nothing has changed.
20160413_135404_(resized).jpg

Yup I like it. Try using a smart phone while navigating that.

#6735 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

My point was already stated, owners continue to ask questions that are directly answered in the manual or can be interpreted with use of the manual. It seems part of the reason is they do not have manual in the first place.
Sometimes problems can be averted if the game shipped with a FULL manual.
Some here even stated they did not know where to go to download them...
I am not complaining about Stern not shipping manuals, exclusively, read the below information carefully, as I do not say things for one reason only:
If collectors think manuals are dinosaurs or a waste of paper, I challenge anyone to repair a PCB without a schematic from an actual manual.
In fact, taking apart assemblies is 10X easier WITH a manual, than doing a "Where's Waldo".
People that have disassembled a EM score reel will know what I am talking about here.
Lord help you if you decide to try and not understand the parts.
Operators and owners need paper manuals in order to directly reference them while repairing and maintenance.
A game manual is not "optional", unless someone has no intention of maintaining a machine, which is becoming a standard.
Many machines have subsidiary independent schematic and parts manuals for additional reference, people are not even aware exist, until an owner pipes up and helps another with their problem by referencing the said manuals. Owner then goes, what manual was this?
Answer, the manuals that SHIPPED with the game.
Whitewater for example has THREE not one (not considering the operator handbook), and collectors go "Wat?...."
Metallica actually has another manual, which is not shipped with the game.
This is the Stern parts listing catalog and reference manual.
Now, here is something that is REALLY important.
Did people know that many actual manuals are still not available online, so they cannot be printed out?
Many have never been scanned, and probably never will be, UNLESS a collector contributes to the community?
Not only that, but many manuals quality in comparison to originals are complete a$$, and partially unreadable?
So people are so annoyed and frustrated, they should be because the information is not available, not my explanation.
Ultimately, an electronic manual is not going to work on a smart phone and the type font and the screen are both too small.
No one zooms around a schematic trying to follow the "yellow brick road" on a wire diagram on a smart phone.
Tablets are NOT big enough for proper schematics, unless there is one I am unaware the size of a 30 inch LCD people carry in an oversized suitcase.
This is not type of "paint by numbers" gaming device.

oh look... another post of definitive statements that are blatantly wrong. SUPRISE!

People do use schematics on tablets, phones, etc. I've debugged people's games while waiting for my next game at a tournament on my 4" phone by going to ipdb and getting the manuals to help them over the phone. I've used my ipad extensively with some of my games like HS2 where I don't have an original manual.. and know what... years later I've never felt the need to buy one either because the ipad + pdf meets the need.

That doesn't mean I don't think printed manuals are needed... in fact I'm pissed that stern not only has eliminated the printed manual, but has drastically reduced the scope of their manuals. Things like major assembly removal instructions, board schematics, or even parts charts are not present. WMS/BLY/GTB at least had the service manuals to backup each game's own manuals. Stern has one reference point, and they keep cheapening it out as time goes on.

My 1980s bally SS manual rules over my 2014 Stern manual... my WPC game manuals are generally better too. My 2003 LOTR manual is night and day from a 2015 stern manual.

I mourn the loss of solid technical manuals so we can properly support our games for decades to come... but your detachment from modern reality shows again in your posts. Or its simply 'the world according to me' syndrome

#6736 7 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Discovered this last night.
I don't know what to say... part of me loves it a lot, but I feel strangely bad about it haha.
» YouTube video
They have others if you dare to dig...

I just checked out their website. While looking at their past shows...I was very grateful to see they had never been in my area. I would have been kicking myself for missing them.

#6737 7 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

I just checked out their website. While looking at their past shows...I was very grateful to see they had never been in my area. I would have been kinking myself for missing them.

100% the same

They would be a great Vegas resident act in a bar or small music venue IMO.

#6738 7 years ago

Newbie here, Getting my pro next week. Are the factory led's any good in this game? Or do they need some changes so the game is properly lit ?

#6739 7 years ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Newbie here, Getting my pro next week. Are the factory led's any good in this game? Or do they need some changes so the game is properly lit ?

They are great.

#6740 7 years ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Newbie here, Getting my pro next week. Are the factory led's any good in this game? Or do they need some changes so the game is properly lit ?

They're pretty much all just white. I ended up getting a few colored ones to match insert colors.

#6741 7 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Discovered this last night.

Thanks for that link.....totally rocks!!!

#6742 7 years ago

Hey man I like Journey too. Neil Schonne!

#6743 7 years ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Newbie here, Getting my pro next week. Are the factory led's any good in this game? Or do they need some changes so the game is properly lit ?

They are pretty much all white as previously stated. Some will like them as they are, but I found them to be too bright, especially when the game was in a line up with other LED games. I replaced most of mine with appropriately colored LEDs.

#6744 7 years ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Newbie here, Getting my pro next week. Are the factory led's any good in this game? Or do they need some changes so the game is properly lit ?

I leave mine white in the inserts cuz the facets "sparkle" with them in which you loose much of when you color match them.

#6745 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

8 foot "Paper manual" (batteries not included).
I can give new Stern versions as well, if I dig through my archives.
Some do have fold outs...

I'd like to see an example of a new stern that has a fold out in the paper manual. New, as in, a Stern that did not come with a manual in the game. No sense in posting a game that came with a manual. I looked through my GOT, MET, AC/DC, TF and AV and none of them had fold outs.

I specifically said the following for a reason in my previous post as I know people like to try and find examples of things that prove their points that aren't relevant to the discussion at hand. Posting a Bally manual in a Stern argument is invalid IMO as we are talking about the impacts of "Stern" manuals. If we want to start throwing oranges into this apples discussing I can do that too.

"Remember, we are talking about Stern here. Not Bally, Williams, Gotlieb, Data East, etc. Some of those manuals had fold outs which I would agree are very helpful. I can't think of any new sterns that have those fold outs."

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

but what is needed is acquiring the secondary WhiteStar/SAM manuals beyond the basic operator manuals that do not include them. Most people are not really aware of these for their games in general, but many are "generic" now.

And yet, that is not included in the manual that is sent with the game. That would be a much better argument to have with Stern than the one we are having.

Quoted from MustangPaul:

I agree, there's nothing like having a hard copy manual at your disposal. I've tried using a smart phone with their tiny screen to search an on line manual and it's a royal pain especially when you have to make calls WHILE your looking at a manual. We are waaay to dependent on this tech crap that they tell us we NEED. I'm not going to buy a lap top computer with a wireless set-up so I can bring it down stairs into my gameroom to look at diagrams and such while I work on a game. A $5-$10 hard copy manual makes waaaay more sense to have then spending hundreds of dollars on something to duplicate what I have upstairs. What happens when my hard copy manual slides off the pin next to the one I'm working on.....nothing. Now what happens when my new $300 computer slides off and hits the floor?

Then, by all means, print one out. It's their for that purpose. Their is no need in printing out thousands of these books just so that a very small % of people will have them at their finger tips in the event they want to use one. Also, if you don't have a tablet or a laptop already, then you are very much in the minority of NIB stern Pinball owners. Most people that spend $4.5K plus on a toy generally have the other basic electronic toys.

If you want to use your computer vs printing it out. Put the computer on a table or the floor or anything else. We can all think of ludicrous reasons to void the others argument. Like a computer falling off the game next to it. That's negligence.

#6746 7 years ago

Can we let the manual thing go. Its not included, maybe it should be. Its available online, maybe it shouldnt be.

#6748 7 years ago

Tired of manual talk as well.
Here is a photo just to break things up.
Love this game!!!

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#6749 7 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Their is no need in printing out thousands of these books just so that a very small % of people will have them at their finger tips in the event they want to use one

If that were the only issue.. then Stern could/should offer them for print on demand for a reasonable price for those that do want them... not the $40 they charge for their 'lite' manuals which are the standard now.

Documentation is an investment in your product and your customer service. You don't need to burn money, but you should provide all the support you can to your customers so they can function without needing you to lead them by the hand.

Stern's changes have been to cheapen out on COGS *and* in quality of documentation.

And it's not really negligence when something falls and you end up with the chain reaction that leads to the death of your electronics. Or how about I don't want to worry about greasy hands on my keyboard or tablet while up to my elbows in the game.

There are LOTS of things we expect from manufacturers we could do ourselves (like printing manuals) - that doesn't invalid the desire that the manufacturer do it for you as part of the product you purchased.

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