(Topic ID: 50762)

Metallica owner's thread


By swampfire

6 years ago



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#6501 3 years ago

New to the club and working on setting up my woodhead pro. for those that converted to LED did you go with the LED OCD board or just non ghosting bulbs? dont know much about the OCD board or if it would be worth it.

#6502 3 years ago

I have a premium so I can't say on metallica, but in general the OCD board is well worth it in my opinion. This will also allow you to buy less expensive LED's to help cover the cost of the OCD. Not sure if they pro has a lot of fades of the LED's or not, but in my Iron Man it looks great.

#6503 3 years ago
Quoted from PunkPin:

New to the club and working on setting up my woodhead pro. for those that converted to LED did you go with the LED OCD board or just non ghosting bulbs? dont know much about the OCD board or if it would be worth it.

I can't say enough good things about the LED OCD board. It's an awesome product, and I highly recommend it. My only caveat would be that I'm not sure whether or not it's compatible with the Total Lightshow mod. If you were considering adding the TL mod, you should check first to see if the two will play nicely together.

#6504 3 years ago
Quoted from PunkPin:

New to the club and working on setting up my woodhead pro. for those that converted to LED did you go with the LED OCD board or just non ghosting bulbs? dont know much about the OCD board or if it would be worth it.

So people want to spend more money to retroactively install a PCB so LED bulbs look like incandescent bulbs now?

I must be missing something again.

Why would people not just use proper LEDs or original bulbs with covers or glass dye dipped (if you want a different color) in the first place?

Dimming control is not a critical feature.

I watched the videos. The effect is only dramatic because the LED bulbs used in the machines were the wrong type for the inserts. It is part of the sales pitch.

Modern games that are properly visually tested do not have this problem.
Modern LED games have more issues asthethically than original bulbs right now due to spotlighting, ghosting, and timing unless the designer takes the time to "do it right the first time".

If you think about the logic here...

#6505 3 years ago
Quoted from PunkPin:

New to the club and working on setting up my woodhead pro. for those that converted to LED did you go with the LED OCD board or just non ghosting bulbs? dont know much about the OCD board or if it would be worth it.

I think the LED OCD board is a must for some titles (eg. LOTR) where there are bulb fading effects and the game was never designed with LEDs in mind. When I tried non-ghosting bulbs in LOTR it really wasn't satisfactory for me and I ended up putting in the LED OCD. Metallica was designed with LEDs in mind (Met Prem, LE, and later pros all came with LEDs installed and no LED OCD board). Does it look better with the LED OCD board? I think it does but it is subtle and the difference will depend personal taste as well as on the type and color of the LEDs installed as others have mentioned. I don't have one in my Metallica, but I can see how it might be worth it to others.

#6506 3 years ago

BlackNight you are way off here, games that were designed to work with incandescent bulbs do not look good with LEDs. This can be helped with non-ghosting bulbs but that does not change the fact that they have a very harsh on/off look.With OCD the originally fades in and out of the bulbs come back to life, but you still get the bright LED color pop! IMO huge improvement, now if you look at SPIKE games they have the ability to fade the LEDs in and out, KISS does this very very well.

#6507 3 years ago

Just my observation: I have non-ghosting LEDs in most of my 2013 MET's inserts, and it looks good to me (and I'm very picky about LED effects). I did order an LEDOCD for my LOTR, which I'm converting to LED now. My advice is to try the LEDs, and then order the LEDOCD if you're not happy. $135 isn't a lot of money, but it's not nothing.

#6508 3 years ago
Quoted from mandelbloom:

BlackNight you are way off here, games that were designed to work with incandescent bulbs do not look good with LEDs. This can be helped with non-ghosting bulbs but that does not change the fact that they have a very harsh on/off look.With OCD the originally fades in and out of the bulbs come back to life, but you still get the bright LED color pop! IMO huge improvement, now if you look at SPIKE games they have the ability to fade the LEDs in and out, KISS does this very very well.

That is is why I do not use LEDs in my games, unless they were designed from the factory with thoses facets in mind. I never said I did in context. I guess I am just a "purist", and never joined the revolution. I do not like unicorn playfield sharting which includes use of overly bright insert LEDs.

I doubt my opinion will change with LED OCD, but I will gladly bench test if someone wants an impartial opinion by sending me a sample board. It takes dozens of games to compare, and not all are created equal via manufacturer and era anyway. DE, BLY/WMS, AG, Stern (old and new), GTB, Zac, CC, etc. The only thing that is approximately equal is GI, and many agree to use #44 or #47 anyway.

Spending more money on LEDs that you just said "don't look right" or have brightness control problems and then more money for a board to correct the problem is my exactly point in the first place.

Just use old bulbs if they look best and either condom or color dye them. People do not need to change bulbs that often, unless they own only a couple of machines or keep them running constantly. If you hate changing bulbs, use a few LEDs that are in hard to reach areas of you must. These are cheaper simple solutions.

I am not getting in a "bulb PCB war" discussion. I test, not use conjecture. These are not pinball displays whether LCD, LED, specialized plasma, or digitized. People spend even more money on plastic Walmart toys I know.

You supported my opinion, and went in a circle.
I am reminded of commercial right now.

I+ll+buy+that+for+a+dollar+_6dc66710d8e0d8639e8f5165836c0485_(resized).jpg

#6509 3 years ago

Duplicate post.

#6510 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

That is is why I do not use LEDs in my games.

Well now you can with Hergs LED OCD boards

#6511 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Dimming control is not a critical feature.

Try telling that to my capcom Airborne...it's hugely critical as LEDs were HORRID in it before. And the power draw with incadescents (especially with the controlled GI lighting) was too much for these old capcom boards. It feels better now

#6512 3 years ago

factory LEDs on Met Premium/LE are the worst. I would much rather have sockets than the LED boards. They are not nearly bright enough and have no fading. I have LEDOCD boards in all my games that support it. It is one of those things that once you have in one machine you need it in all of them.

#6513 3 years ago

Blackknight I have LED OCD in two games.

IronMan VE which came with LEDS and looks great with them, even has an LED mode but turn that off and use an OCD and its ever better!

No Good Gofers, this game is very colorful looks great with LED's in the inserts, but the OCD plays nice with the fades etc... I think it a win win. The price is not out of line people spend more on a topper!

To each his own though.

#6514 3 years ago
Quoted from Troutfarm:

factory LEDs on Met Premium/LE are the worst.

Let Stern know, maybe there is still time to change the same design on GB LE before they start being built next month.
The design in the LED control boards has remain unchanged since ST. Good or bad, that is the current state, and it is still cheaper to manufacturer than lamp boards with sockets.

#6515 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Let Stern know, maybe there is still time to change the same design on GB LE before they start being built next month.
The design in the LED control boards has remain unchanged since ST. Good or bad, that is the current state, and it is still cheaper to manufacturer than lamp boards with sockets.

This is not true, with the new spike system they look great and fade in and out nicely.

#6516 3 years ago
Quoted from mandelbloom:

This is not true, with the new spike system they look great and fade in and out nicely.

SAM System games, this is a MET thread.
Unless Stern did something I am completely unaware recently on the production line.

"Long live LEDS" and "Long live OCD".
I concede.

#6517 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Let Stern know, maybe there is still time to change the same design on GB LE before they start being built next month.

GB is Spike

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

SAM System games, this is a MET thread.
Unless Stern did something I am completely unaware recently on the production line.

You brought up GB

#6518 3 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

GB is Spike

You brought up GB

Thanks

#6519 3 years ago

TDK, you sound exactly like I did a few years ago. So I think I'm in a unique position to discuss this with you.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

I do not like unicorn playfield sharting which includes use of overly bright insert LEDs.

Creative colorization of white inserts is one of my pet peeves. But colored LEDs can greatly improve pale blue or purple inserts. And I like important inserts to be obvious: ON or OFF. For example, I decided that my 2010 IM really needed LEDs for the drone and shield inserts. But I left most of the others unchanged. I like to fix problems one insert at a time, and only fix what's broken.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Spending more money on LEDs that you just said "don't look right" or have brightness control problems and then more money for a board to correct the problem is my exactly point in the first place.

I view the LEDs and the board as a system. If you know a particular title is going to require LEDOCD, don't cheap out - get the board. most "Owner's Club" threads will tell you if a particular title needs an LEDOCD or not. If $200+ is too much to LED your inserts, then keep them incandescent.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Just use old bulbs if they look best and either condom or color dye them.

If a bulb is in plain view, a colored bulb or a #44 with a condom is my preferred solution. But this doesn't work for inserts, because they end up being way too dim. Believe me, I'm cheap and if condoms solved my insert color problems, I'd use them.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

People do not need to change bulbs that often, unless they own only a couple of machines or keep them running constantly.

I agree that this oft-cited reason for using LEDs is silly. I have 14 games set up at a time, and I think I go through maybe 20#44s a year, total cost of $2. More often I end up changing bulbs in newly-acquired 80's games because the bulbs have NOT burned out, and they've gotten dim. Just like a 30-year-old LED would have.

#6520 3 years ago

Something to consider:

LED underside playfield control PCBs are the same design for SAM and SPIKE games as they were for WWE, GoT, and KISS including GB release now. They had the same boards part numbers from the sample I inspected.

The primary LED circuits are running from these independent boards NOT the backbox SPIKE master board. SPIKE system for FEATURE lighting remain unchanged. Flasher control did change.

#6521 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

So people want to spend more money to retroactively install a PCB so LED bulbs look like incandescent bulbs now?
I must be missing something again.
Why would people not just use proper LEDs or original bulbs with covers or glass dye dipped (if you want a different color) in the first place?
Dimming control is not a critical feature.
I watched the videos. The effect is only dramatic because the LED bulbs used in the machines were the wrong type for the inserts. It is part of the sales pitch.
Modern games that are properly visually tested do not have this problem.
Modern LED games have more issues asthethically than original bulbs right now due to spotlighting, ghosting, and timing unless the designer takes the time to "do it right the first time".
If you think about the logic here...

Yup your missing,

1 - 60% power savings

2 - Less stress on older power boards

3 - Less heat build up under inserts

4 - Never have to replace burned out bulbs again

5 - Gives you back the great light shows that were only available with incandescent bulbs

6 - greater bulb color choice

and a few other reasons I can't think of right now.

#6522 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

So people want to spend more money to retroactively install a PCB so LED bulbs look like incandescent bulbs now?
I must be missing something again.

You are.. the OCD performs several functions
1) addresses the ghosting and current issues in ONE place.. rather than trying to solve the problem at every bulb. Result: More consistent and can buy cheaper bulbs
2) allows you to control the ramping properties of the driver circuit to effectively emulate the filament glow of incandescents so you don't have the binary on/off look where you don't want it
3) allows you to control the intensity of the bulbs so you can customize the look to exactly what you want vs trying to solve problems with bulb swaps till you get what you want

You get the classic look with all the benefits you want of LEDs... the intensity, the color, the lifetime, the reduced heat, the customization... without the negatives of ghosting, flicker, harsh lights, or paying more for fancier bulbs.

#6523 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

I doubt my opinion will change with LED OCD, but I will gladly bench test if someone wants an impartial opinion by sending me a sample board

Or simply go see other people's games... your attitude here takes an innocent topic and makes it about your ego vs the world.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

It takes dozens of games to compare, and not all are created equal via manufacturer and era anyway. DE, BLY/WMS, AG, Stern (old and new), GTB, Zac, CC, etc.

And thousands of games have been done and observed by many through the years.. just without you in the picture.

#6524 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Yup your missing,
1 - 60% power savings
2 - Less stress on older power boards
3 - Less heat build up under inserts
4 - Never have to replace burned out bulbs again
5 - Gives you back the great light shows that were only available with incandescent bulbs
6 - greater bulb color choice
and a few other reasons I can't think of right now.

Most of your points have one solution.
Turn your game off when you are not playing it. When I pulled many of my games out of storage after a decade, 95% of the bulbs still worked.

The last two I already have, colored lighting which can be achieved with "glass dye" from a craft store with hundreds of colors to choose from overall. The dye costs less than an LED, and you can use it many times for more bulbs.

Cheaper than $300 LED Kits and $150 electronic board that requires power as well. You do not get highly visual "flicker" from regular bulbs unlike LEDs IF the boards are well maintained. If your GI is too bright use #47, or you can go even lower via resistor or another type of bulb.
You can make your own "dim control" with a simple green board and a few parts if you want get creative.

If somebody wants to OCD (which the name is appropriate here) for bulbs and board, great. I am not crapping on a product.

I choose not to join the "LED revolution".
LEDs do have a purpose, but they are many times misused badly. I own LEDs, for tricky spots albeit rarely but it is not like they are sacrelige.

A board will not fix that problem with the types, use, or color.
The point I can making here is there are many ways to address solutions, not "one way" (ie the PinSide phenomena) and feeling the need to defend a product.

If people are happy with their purchase, fantastic.
Pick something about MET now.

#6525 3 years ago

I'm not a fan of modding a game until it's way more than it cost originally, but the LEDOCD is a good value at $135. At least it's impacting the most important part of the game, and it's easy to remove and resell (if necessary) to lower the cost to the next buyer.

#6526 3 years ago

My 2013 Met pro (wooden backbox) came with incandescents, i swapped in CT nonghosting premium LEDs amd they look great. No flicker. Metallica doesnt do the ramp up ramp down fading so the ledocd board isnt necessary to me.

However when i did the same to my TSPP it was horrible flickering/ghosting even with the nonghosting LEDs. After getting the LEDOCD board, I bought much cheaper CT LEDs and they look great!

So its a case by case basis for me, Not necessary on Met, necessary for TSPP.

#6527 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Most of your points have one solution.
Turn your game off when you are not playing it.

Now why didn't I think of that and what happens when I have a party that lasts more the 12 hours...which does happen? So your saying that running 15 games at say 300 watts each at .11 per kw hour that I won't save a lot of money running them at 150 watts at .11 per kw hour for 12 hours. Your arguments are totally lame. You do what you want to do but don't come on here and tell US we're crazy.

#6528 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Now why didn't I think of that and what happens when I have a party that lasts more the 12 hours...which does happen? So your saying that running 15 games at say 300 watts each at .11 per kw hour that I won't save a lot of money running them at 150 watts at .11 per kw hour for 12 hours. Your arguments are totally lame. You do what you want to do but don't come on here and tell US we're crazy.

100W * 15 games * 12 hours * $0.11/1000 watt-hours = $1.98. Dude, that won't even buy a beer. But I do like LEDs in the inserts.

EDIT: if you party every day for 12 hours, more power to you.

#6529 3 years ago
Quoted from Rickwh:

So its a case by case basis for me, Not necessary on Met, necessary for TSPP.

Exactly. My LEDOCD for LOTR just came in today...can't wait.

#6530 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

100W * 15 games * 12 hours * $0.11/1000 watt-hours = $1.98. Dude, that won't even buy a beer. But I do like LEDs in the inserts.

But at 300w that equals out to $5.94. It's the same reasoning people are putting led bulbs in their homes and business's, save some here save some there and together we save a WHOLE LOT. When I was a kid in the '50's they used to advertise on tv that electricity was "penny cheap", yup 1000w cost one penny, now it's 11cents and going up. Since I've gotten into pinball I've had months where I've used over a million and a half watts....and I'm single. I've signed up for Sun Share, a solar garden set up and hope to save up to $500 a year, we'll see but any savings is well worth checking out because the price per kwh is going up. End of lecture.

#6531 3 years ago

the d-knight is still stuck back 5-10 years where 'To LED or not to LED' was a huge debate in the community where many people were divided over the value and look it created. The technology and tastes have matured since then because of the options available, the results, and the greater acceptance of game 'customization' in the hobby as the results have become more tasteful.

Let's not turn this into a general LED/Anti-LED thread - this is thread is about Metallica and our games.

#6532 3 years ago

It's rude to talk about people in the 3rd person when they're part of the conversation. And why not talk about lighting? We've talked about far less important things in this thread.

#6533 3 years ago

This is a MET thread, take your LED OCD to a different thread please.

#6534 3 years ago

Just wanted to pop by and thank you guys who responded to my question about the playfield.

Glad I won't need to have any OCD when my NIB arrives soon!

#6535 3 years ago

Thanks for the help on friends flasher issue. While he def caused F8 to blow I think the flashers not lighting may be a board issue. They are sending a new board to swap and test. Great customer service.

#6536 3 years ago

So I guess the consensus for inserts with LEDs in MET is that LEDOCD is NOT needed.

#6537 3 years ago

Pic of newly installed Newton ball assembly on my MET premium.

I think this will be much more stable in the long haul with its 3 anchor bolts & I definitely like it better than that awkward cube.

20160328_210411_(resized).jpg

#6538 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

the d-knight is still stuck back 5-10 years where 'To LED or not to LED' was a huge debate in the community where many people were divided over the value and look it created. The technology and tastes have matured since then because of the options available, the results, and the greater acceptance of game 'customization' in the hobby as the results have become more tasteful.
Let's not turn this into a general LED/Anti-LED thread - this is thread is about Metallica and our games.

Feel free to discuss your opinion with me personally at PAGG, NWPS, or the Expo. I will ensure other collectors listen to your perspective allowing everyone judge the situation impartially.

This includes judgements of personal integrity, interpretations of age or personal choice.

I was not disrespectful to you in any way.
In fact the only thing I am guilty in this case by "defenders" is having a differing opinion, which is automatically conferred as "wrong". There are contexts such costs for large private collections and profit margins for operators that are just not being considered, but this would just go in direction that would be unwise.

If you or any other have personal issues with me, address it via PM, I will listen.

The recent image examples shown below are not mature nor tasteful regarding use of LEDS. It is however, common. There is nothing inherently wrong with LED use in general, but not if you cover up the artwork and are blinded.

MET used LEDs very well in the game design, both in feature lighting, spotlight changes, effects, and GI. It is one of several reasons I purchased the machine title, and why I would recommend it for others.

pUukCrf_(resized).jpg

00x0x_cKqpynalt74_600x450_(resized).jpg

#6539 3 years ago

That is one nasty looking LOTR!

#6540 3 years ago

As my NIB pro is getting closer to arrival, I am trying to get all the protection ready to put in on day 1. My question is, To cliffy or not to cliffy?. Ive read some just put Mylar around the magnets. I'm just wondering what owners have done as far as NIB protection, It's my first NIB and I want to be as thorough as possible any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Jay

#6541 3 years ago

Mylar around Sparky magnet from day 1. Some people like the new carbon fiber ring, but I would not suggest the metal rings that I have heard bend over time and can lift clearcoat/art on removal. I bought metal rings, but never installed them. I didn't put mylar on the graveyard magnet, and it seems to be fine after two years. I would also suggest Cliffy or Mantis style Mystery scoop protector, and shooter lane protection. Maybe also sling protectors and larger Sparky airball shield. Beyond that is up to you, but I see this as the bare minimum for a NIB Met Pro.

#6542 3 years ago

I did both, mylar around the magnet edges then the carbon ring on top of the mylar.

#6543 3 years ago

Saw this thread blow up again and thought something new happened with MET only to find, yet again, another off topic discussion. Can we please just keep this thread to MET and move off topic discussions to new threads? With over 6K post in this thread now having all the OT stuff makes it hard to scan through for solutions when someone has a question.

#6544 3 years ago

And the other 6500 posts are all on-topic and not repetitive? lol.

#6545 3 years ago

I can officially say I'm a part of the club now! Just set up my Monsters and wow that clear coat looks amazing.. for those of you that have been waiting for awhile like I have, you will not be disappointed.

#6546 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

LEDs do have a purpose, but they are many times misused badly. I own LEDs, for tricky spots albeit rarely but it is not like they are sacrelige.
A board will not fix that problem with the types, use, or color.

Sounds like your only issue is with people's choice of LEDs (which I agree), as the value of LEDs is undeniable with new and older games, eliminating heat damage to plastics, backglasses, and inserts, and they can restore original coloring of faded inserts.

Quoted from swampfire:

So I guess the consensus for inserts with LEDs in MET is that LEDOCD is NOT needed.

MET is one of the few games for which I didn't add an LED OCD because it was designed with LEDs from the beginning and the fading effects are not as prevalent as many games designed with incandescents... but the LED OCD technology is superior to what Stern or PPS includes in their LED games, so I could see it being an improvement as others have testified to. I'd be curious to see before/after video if anyone has it.

universe_(resized).jpg

#6547 3 years ago

One of the lesser-known LEDOCD benefits is that you can individually dim individual inserts at different levels. So if you have a clear insert and you want to tone it down, you can.

#6548 3 years ago

Replaced my plastic post with a metal one last night.
Don't notice any difference at all, left side rejects back down the left orbit, right side goes into the pops.
5% of the time the opposite happens, but that's the same as it was with the plastic post.

#6549 3 years ago

Adjust the height of the post. Most likely need to lower it. Also check the level of the back of the playfield.

#6550 3 years ago

I changed my post out to the metal one and only very very rarely get a bounce back now. Love it.

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