For DMD's I put it in my top 20

A few examples of games with center-dominating feature (bash, not bash, doesn't matter):

Austin Powers - Time Machine

Simpson's Pinball Party - Garage (best game ever made, by the way, so I'm not just a hater)

Lord of the Rings - ring/Balrog

Grand Prix/Nascar - Test car

Sopranos - Safe

Pirates/Caribbean - Ship

Spider Man - Sandman

Indy Jones - Ark

CSI - Centrifuge

Iron Man - Monger

Tron - Spinning Disk

Metallica - Sparky

X-Men - Magneto

Star Trek - Starship

Mustang - Gears targets (but I LIKE them)

Walking Dead - Cell block

Some of these features are less dominant than others. Some can be argued they're not even in the center.
Yes, I know you don't HAVE to shoot the giant domineering feature in the center of the playfield. But it is designed to be hit from the sweet spot of (most of them) both flippers. Probably because the BOZOS need to be able to hit SOMETHING and get entertainment value out of the thing. It just seems to me that placing a feature up there, dead center of the playfield, that anyone can hit just by flipping when the ball is in the middle of the flipper lacks something. Creativity? Not necessarily, because some of these games have awesome features otherwise. Lazy? Perhaps. Doing what the Boss says to do? Maybe. Rambling, now, so I'll close.

I just wanted to express why I said what I did, and why the game doesn't click for me. If you like these games, more power to you. That is fine, I don't want to argue why you like it. I accept it without question.

Aurich, you are correct, Theater of Magic should be renamed Shoot Trunk.

I disagree. Metallik had it right when he said all you should do on ToM is shoot the left orbit again and again...and again.

Once you figure out that's where all the points really are, it gets harder to enjoy the pin, despite having superb flow and some nice satisfying shots.

Why would you purposely make a lame game even MORE boring?

Because you want to beat your high score.

C'mon, Popeye is about ACDC good!

Metallica trounces ACDC. Big time!

Or your opponents in league. And yea, it makes a bad game worse.

To Cody, what exactly DO you want in the middle of the playfield, a gobble hole? Dracula's 3bank? You're kinda limited to the same thing as everywhere else: targets, scoops/ejects and ramps. If it's going to be a target, might as well make it an interesting, 3D target..

Having Metallica now in the top 10 makes me question the review system on Pinside...

You've been hear almost 3 years and this is what finally put you over the top?

I'm starting to wonder if there are people who don't think the exact same way I do out there ...

Where's the option for "not top 50?" Is it that inconceivable that this game could not make it into SOMEONE's top 50?

*I'm not saying it's not a top 50 game; I don't have enough time on it to give an informed opinion. I'm guessing there are people who genuinely don't care for it, though, same as any pin.

I agree with the rating and if I had the chance MET would be my next pin.

Yes, a cool interactive gadget is better than a block of wood or cow patty...it's that dead center "just try not to hit me" design that is so freaking stale at this point. As I was going down the list of modern Sterns, pretty much every game that didn't have a center bozo shot looked much more interesting and most of them I like better than the ones with it. With a few exceptions, of course.

Having MM as #1 brings the whole rating system into question. It's all subjective opinion and should only carry the weight of such. Keep in mind anyone can rate a game on Pinside and this site has quite a few drama queens that don't think before they type.

Among the games you listed...

POTC: Ship is one of the coolest gadgets Stern has ever made. The actual "center" shot here is a small U-turn lane...

CSI: Centrifuge... isn't a block of wood or anything else like that, it's a lane to a turntable. Looks like a gadget to me

Tron: spinning disc is a gadget, and puts more English on the ball than any other device Stern has made to date..

Sparky, Monger and Zombie are similar, but I attribute that to Borg being in a slight rut lately more than anything else.

LOTR/Sopranos: Balrog and Safe are cool gadgets, especially because they alter the shot map when invoked: LOTR Ring normally available, but Balrog blocks it. SOP lane normally NOT available, but safe "cracks" to reveal it.

I saved this one for last, because it's a perfect example of how designers are kinda limited in where they put things. The center of the playfield is where the flippers tend to be most powerful, and stuff here tends to get destroyed. Balrog's work OK, but Soprano's safe tends to break a lot. You just can't put any old thing right there at ground zero.

Metallica is another one of those pins I don't get why people love it. I only played it a handful of times but it just didn't pull me in. Maybe it's because I don't care for the band, art, and playfield toys. I will have to learn more about the rules and give it another try. I'm not a big fan of the art or music of ACDC either but that is a lot more fun to play imo.

Not to highjack the thread into a gadget discussion...but...

Yes, I absolutely agree some of the gadgets have cool interaction. I didn't mean to imply that every example turned my stomach. It's placement of the gadget and it's relative dominance over the rest of the field as much as anything else. I acknowledged that some may not be exact dead center, or even bad gadgets...I wasn't talking in absolutes.

Back to Met...Sparky doesn't kill the game for me. It's annoying for me personally as a player, but the whole package turns me off. Sparky is just the fly on top of the mound.

You answered your own question.

Until you understand a game it's difficult to judge it.

I would like to be able to cancel the sparky sequence and animation. It's cool the first time, but after that, please kill it? k?

Wire up an external volume switch. Dial the volume one notch up or down to cancel Sparky.

No doubt there...Sure you get some sips of beer in but still...let's go already

Waiting through the Sparky animation is one of my few gripes with the game. The choice to skip it would be nice, but I'm not sure how that would work in cases of the magnet not catching the ball. It's a nice freebie to have that time to shoot a few picks if you need them.

Would also love an animation skip. I guess I've gotten used to stepping back and playing air guitar, but cmon.

Unless you have played the all the different Crank It Up Modes, you haven't played Metallica or given it a fair chance. I don't just go up the middle to smash Sparky, I work to qualify for the next Crank It Up.

I've played all the CIU modes, 3 in one game... They're great modes...

But it's a lot of bash-bash-bash wood- shedding to get there...

Regarding CIU, I look at it more as providing incentive to spread your shots around and not focus on one shot/area. Sparky is IMO one of the coolest toys in pinball never gets old to me. But hey that's just like my opinion maan..

I like Metallica the band and I like the artwork on it. I really wanted to like the pin. I played it a few times but never really got into it. Then it clicked. I own one now awesome game! I think I like it better than ACDC but still a bit early in owning it.

Always returning to Sparky MB is the key to unlimited hits towards CIU. Sparky is near zero risk and I have yet to hear a compelling reason against this strategy. Sorry that makes it a 2-dimensional game at best. And once in CIU you get Battery for even more low risk Sparky bashing! Not top 10 for me

Uh, okay. I'll remember that next time the magnet tosses the ball SDTM.

Seriously, I don't care if people don't like the game! Totally fine by me. But at least just say you don't like it. Calling it "two dimensional" is just ridiculous, and only indicates you don't actually understand the rules.

Someone just linked this up, I'm reading through it now, seems like a solid place to start:

http://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/metallica-pro.3077/

Explain to me how this game is a grind? ALL the modes are wide open for you to pursue. You can go any direction with this game at any given time.
For example, Star Trek is a GRIND game. Stuck in one mode till you finish it. Spiderman which is designed by the same person as Star Trek and has an almost identical layout to it, is not a grind because the rules are completely different.

Metallica? Is Very beatifull!!!

I like Metallica.....but I like ST even more. I don't find it to be a grind at all. If you generally don't care for a game playing that game becomes a grind. I started to feel that way about LOTR after owning it for eight years and I felt that way about AC/DC Pro after a few months.

This is why variety and different games are a good thing. I have METLE and Star Trek Premium. My ST pretty much gathers dust, Metallica gets played all the time.

I'm crossing my fingers for a ST update next month that will draw me back in!

Perfectly said! When you feel that way, time to sell.

I just played my Met with the thought of this thread fresh on my mind, I wanted to see if I was over-looking the bash-this/bash-that, chopping wood etc. feel to it. I don't see it that way, I enjoy playing it and try different strategies almost every time to mix things up. Sometimes I just play it for the fun of playing it.

I think a lot of people worry too much about points and what's needed to achieve a high score ("I must hit the snake,then the ramp,then Sparky" etc.), if that's all you're focused on I believe it takes some of the fun away (for a home game). That's when it's repetitive.

I'd also like to mention I play my game in a dark room, sound up with an external sub, under-cab and speaker lights, creeping-death art & lighting added, etc. for a much better game immersion. Of course if I didn't like any of the music or the theme, it wouldn't help.

I find most games to be repetitive after a while, doesn't matter what title it is. That's when it goes up for sale!

Same here!

MetallicA is simply Awesome Top 5 !

Turn your magnets on

I never get Sparky before CIU #1...leave him ready for right after CIU to help get to CIU #2

Just say no to drugs! Probably to late in your case though

Metallica is a top-20 game to me and a top-5 Stern.

Will probably prefer ST when (if... ) code is finished, despite Met's superior artwork and animations.

Never had one at home but played it often. A friend who owned one also experienced the Rob-T (and others) syndrome: total addiction for a few months followed by overdose.

I think working toward CIU is a grind. Blackened is a grind (have to complete the pics about a bazillion times?). Almost every "hit this feature x many times" game I find grindy.

That's a legit complaint if you don't like that style of game.

Me personally? I like hitting things with a pinball, so long as it feels like it's worth it, and I'm not "trapped". That's why I like Metallica, because you can work towards completing so many things at the same time. Just about every shot you make counts for something.

It's my biggest complaint about Star Trek. It's a great shooting game, but I rarely feel like I'm being purposeful, and there are times (between missions mostly) where it feels like most shots are worthless and pointless and there's nothing to do but try and hit the scoop or under the flipper.

I can see how Metallica can feel "grindy" as I've had that feeling while playing. The best parts of Metallica are the CIU and Blackened modes which take a lot of work once you make it past the first CIU mode. It seems like I'm always trying to start "Sparky" so that I can work on hammering the pick targets for Blackened and it gets repetitive when working towards the 2nd and third CIU modes. The problem is that those really good games where you see multiple CIU modes, SaD and Blackened are few and far between and it can seem like a grind going through quite a few sub par games where you just play thru the multiballs a bunch of times and possibly 1 CIU and don't get that far. The fun stuff (the risk/reward CIU modes) just takes work to get there. Still a great game though and one I'd like to own someday. I think what it's lacking compared to ACDC is the ability to have 2 lousy balls and then blow it up in a matter of minutes on the third ball without a lot of work if you get everything setup just right.

Ummm....you start another mission. I always try to have a mission running regardless of what else I'm going for. I can nail the left "start mission" when it drops from behind the center stand up more than half the time.....really fun shot. So if I have both locks lit I can go center - left in two shots...pretty sweet. I also think the "behind the right upper flipper" shot is a fun shot. I'll try an hit it while mutiball is going. In fact if you have a couple cradled on the right flipper you can backhand the lower ball right into it.

Yes, yes. I like mode based games, but not when it's pointless to play if you're not in a mode. I prefer games with multiple approaches. Like Shadow is a mode based game, but you have other things to shoot for if you're not in a mode. If you couldn't do anything in that game unless you kept making that saucer shot it would be annoying.

Just different strokes I guess. Star Trek has 18 primary modes and you can play them any way you like. One level at a time or go three deep on a single level before moving on.....in addition to the various multiball modes and wizard modes. It's not a "hassle" (to me) to just always have one running. Lots of variety in the different modes....to me. I realize some think the modes all feel the same....I think they are not paying close enough attention.

I never go strictly for blackened...one of those things that happens naturally as I progress through the MBs to CIUs. I will never deny that it can feel grindy; you have to collect so many of each thing that it's just going to end up that way. Only by lighting more chances to collect items can you speed it up...throw a MB in there to help you along the way. To me it seems weighted very well though...and I usually prefer a true mode based DMD.

But that's my problem with Metallica; there really isn't many different approaches to it and there's a ton in ST. I can go for the destroy the Drill scoring method which relies on going for Nero 3 and PD then lighting DTR up. Or I can go for depth and get my KB3 and STE3 ready for multiballs and get a double 3 in a row ready for double scoring - this strat ends up in e.amok on good games. Or I can go the conservative boring route and play the missions linear getting Kobayashi mb and going for amok. Or I can play out the GAT missions for diversity. Or I can go for the KB3 exploit. Not to mention the intensity of playing the multiballs and vengeance 2 is always adrenalin filled playing for an EB. That's not to say there aren't bug flaws with ST cause there are. Update incoming sooooon?

Metallica is limited on strategies. CIU; talk about being stuck in a mode - granted it's easy (yet dangerous) to get out of CIU. Blackened; hell ya great mode but holy crap what a grind to open it up, those pick targets aren't very satisfying. Sparky; awesome mb rules but gets boring and repetitive. Seek and destroy; another kick ass mode that's a grind to get started. I can go on but you get the idea, Metallica has great rules on its modes, but strategies and opening modes are very grindy.

bottom line both games has pros and cons just so happens my pros in ST are other people's cons and vice versa for metallica

You know I love you SKB, but I couldn't disagree more on these two games, at least at the current state of code. Here are my thoughts. When I am playing Met, I am having fun at whatever I am progressing, and in the mode that I am playing. Even as you state - Blackened = fun, CIUs = fun, SnD = fun, even Fuel and Justice = fun. All 4 multiballs are varied but more importantly fun. But in addition, the beauty of Met's rules is that there is choice in what to shoot for and stacking which does not close you off from progress in the game.

Key difference for me with ST is that the modes just aren't diverse or more importantly fun. Level 1's are an absolute joke. You are stuck in the same mode for 30 seconds regardless of how well you shoot. And each mode feels the same. Bland and boring. And God help you if you start a MB before stating a mode. You are locked out from progress. Now I have to keep hearing "Klingon Jackpot!" over and over when I just want to progress in other parts of the game. But I can't. Because there is no stacking. So keep grinding on a MB, waiting to drain so that I can get on to other parts of the game.

And who the hell cares about the galactic "modes". These aren't modes.

After playing ST a few times, I feel like I don't need to play again for months. I just don't find it fun at all.