You're totally missing my point. I didn't mean it would be great if movie clips were used but given that Stern and SkitB are using movie clips on a DMD which look awful, at least they would look better on a HD colour display.

I'm sure you're not the only one who doesn't want to see film clips and that includes me and of course many here would like to see more original themes but it's not going to happen or if it does it's still going to be a minority. But repeating my original point, having a HD colour display doesn't mean you *have* to use film clips but if the designers decide to use them at least they will look good. Ultimately the LCD means more choice for game designers.

Saying no to a new tool because someone MIGHT use it in a way that you don't like doesn't make the tool bad. Blame the user.

I wasn't talking about WOZ. I was replying to the guy who said the main plus of an LCD screen is using film clips. Which is why I quoted him in my reply.

Although I do appreciate the irony of a WOZ defender using a straw man argument.

The tool's application in pinball doesn't interest me. Maybe someone will do something amazing enough with an LCD backbox to change my mind. I'm not holding my breath.

I'm more optimistic about P3-like uses of LCD screens, even if what I've seen so far is more of a novelty than a gameplay innovation.

Exactly!,,..... I have a phone for all that,can even play pinball on it

It sounds like you are anti display in general. I do relate to that and it should be about the playfield action first and foremost but a display is needed in some form or other to keep scores and help guide your game. Is it just the animations you are against or the messages and info too? Like I said an LCD can be used purely to display the score simply, staticly in whatever form you choose. Designer's choice. Why would you use anything else?

Mmm, I guess I was thinking more of Fatsquash's words when I responded ("I really dig the creativity that's involved with a DOT package, and am more impressed with that than full-motion video clips and whatnot."), and he was talking more about WOZ. I've ammended my post to remove your quote.

A bit off topic but continuing to ask from another thread. So where does a WOZ owner that got a game last week with earlier code download 1.4?

Just for the fun of it... here's a few JJP animations converted to dots.

That's pretty rough to watch. Looks a lot like Stern's movie clips on the dots.

Next to creating a smaller dot DMD to compensate, this will always be a problem when converting video to dots.

Toto escapes is the only dot that turned out well IMO. The others just look blurry.
Glad it comes with an LCD screen.

Well, exactly! There's only so much you can do with 128x32 resolution and 16 shades monochrome (although real-world, it's said only 12 or so shades are useful with Stern's system, and of course WMS only had 4). Plus, obviously, animations intended for such a screen need to be designed with that in mind in terms of size of elements and contrast.

My conversion is purely for the entertainment value. Kind of a... here's an approximation of what WOZ buyers might be looking forward to getting in the coming months if JJP hadn't decided to go for a display with 2,560% more pixels and 1,048,576% more colors than the existing standard.

They both look terrible. Somebody bring back score reels. Stat!

An LCD would have been great in my SM. The DMD is the weak link.

I think you'd want it bigger than that. I like the size of the LCD on WOZ to eaily see progress on objectives. Having that in a DMD sized display would make it hard to read? Why not use as much of the backglass area as possible? I'd rather have a larger display that just see a translite. Just my 2 cents...

The mini-game possibilities on LCD backglasses have an almost endless amount of potential.

The dots on Metallica are amazing having seen them firsthand. But the potential on the lcd from WOZ is limitless. However I do not like the content on the woz display as I do not care for the theme at all. BUT what I have seen from the tech side of the lcd ie: test screens it looks even better than p2k as far as techy stuff. I also am in the camp that the lcd is to big. To each there own.

Blah, blah blah.... dots are on their way out, the end. Loooong overdue. One, maybe two more machines then they'll be put out to pasture...

The days of me getting excited about new DOTS ended a long time ago, before the internet... New Dots is a pinball oxymoron...

Haven't seen a finished WOZ yet. Some of the animations I really liked...last time I played it it must have been "updated" to a newer version with a the witch slowly moving back and forth...looked horrible. Probably been fixed by now.

I love the "lcd is too big" comments. The *only* thing you give up with the LCD is a static image on the backbox. Sheesh. And you get so many more options with a larger display--more real estate to display scores plus mode progress plus animations plus setup plus tutorial plus.... And many things can be displayed simultaneously. Yes, bigger is better.And if a blank screen is *that* bothersome, just turn the damn game on when you're in the room. I bet there will be a 'screensaver' mode added at some point, with just the lcd display showing one or more backbox images. (Hey, you're not stuck with a single image! Or a static one!)

If the witch was slowing moving if I understand your comment it was likely on a prototype game with the old motherboard. It has trouble dealing with new animation stacking. Runs like cheap quite frankly and that's why we beefed it up to the hilt to future proof it.

Yeah, I'd rather see a full backbox LCD than a semi-large one awkwardly framed by a mostly wasted backglass. To be fair, they're just now shipping game 1 of the LCD era. Early days.

have you seen it in person?

We need to get some pinsiders the book 'Who moved my cheese'. LCD is the future and it started with WOZ. We can debate the size and location of it in the pin, like the OP and others are, but it will replace the dots eventually. Who doesn't think Stern will have an LCD in their pins by next year?

Many times.

I don't think they will. It is a pretty massive undertaking and unless they have it well underway, it is going to take awhile. They are also probably comforted by MOPLE buyers trying to protect their investment by saying "how great the dots are" and "I don't play the backglass" and "I am old school and would rather have a static translite".

I bet they do.

You might be right, but Stern has never struck me as a "progressive" pinball company. They have not really advanced the games too much technology-wise over the past 12 years IMHO. They haven't even come out with stereo sound for their music-themed pins let alone any types of new displays.

They have to keep with the Jack's

I know it sounds far-fetched on Pinside, but it's still possible to have actual aesthetic preferences, regardless of perceived financial implications.

The crazy part of that is Stern actually regressed - SAM is mono period, Whitestar was mono but *designed* to be stereo (all thay had to do is install the right components - you can see the empty channel on any Whitestar board)... and even sadder, if you go back far enough Data East was actually the first pinball company to even come out with stereo sound on Laser War in 1987.

A quarter century later... sigh.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think Gary cares one bit about what JJP does. I think Stern sees JJP as a boutique shop that will put out a different game every couple of years. If Stern keeps pumping out titles, regardless of features, themed around middle-aged males they will continue to do well with the LE/Premium/Pro model. If Stern were to announce a Led Zeppelin or Monty Python pin, it could have one flipper and a basic display and sell in advance like no tomorrow.

I disagree! Ithink Stern hiring Steve and bringing back Lyman was directly related to JJP'S start up.And I am glad they did,Steve is my favorite!!!

Yeah lets compare guys just saying
JJP design team is JOE BALCER
vs
STERNS design team
Steve Ritchie aka THE KING
John Borg
George Gomez
and
John Trudeau

Stern 4 games per year, JJP... well, definitely less than one. Seems an appropriate number of designers so far.

But jeez man, you have a real hate-on for Joe Balcer - this is far from the first time you've brought him up for no particular reason. What did the poor guy ever do to you?

I am glad they did as well. I am not a Stern hater. I have two HUO versions in my collection right now and plan on getting an AC/DC premium in the near future. I just think there are two different "models" out there in terms of the business between Stern and JJP. One will put out a game every couple of years that will push technology boundaries while the other will crank out three titles annually which do not.

I don't get this attitude. Why are MOPLE buyers "trying to protect their investment" instead of genuinely being happy with their purchase? People can have likes and dislikes without having an agenda.

Personally I prefer P3's approach to the modern pinball display. And I have no investment in P3 to protect.

Yeah I could tell something wasn't quite right.

That big ol' LCD does NOTHING for the advancement of the game of pinball. You WOZ/Jack worshippers need to get over that.

That has worked for them in the past. Maybe that is his plan now.

You are correct. Gary is a follow-the-leader type. Always. The only time his companies have pushed the envelope was with Kaminkow. Otherwise, it's wait, do nothing, same-old-same-old unless someone shows him otherwise.

Gary will finally change his display and follow Jack's lead into color displays, but he will sit back and be cautious about it. And as long as he can raise the prices with each release and everyone keeps pre-ordering, then he's in no rush at all. My guess would be Stern stays with monochrome dots into next year...