Metallica (Premium)
Stern, 2013This has been a problem with my MET from day 1, but I'm now looking at doing something about it. The playfield does not sit level in the cabinet so it's either twisted or the rear cabinet supports are installed out of spec. The front right sits about 3mm lower than the left side and I'm not sure how the heck I'm supposed to fix this. Pushing the left side down seems to cause the playfield to twist somewhat and it's moderately affecting the level of the game.
Rob
pull out that left bracket and bend downwards, not a big problem?
or are they not mounted equally (holes drilled) into the playfield (left and right brackets)?
This may or may not be the case but when I got my WPT I had the same prob and when I looked the 2 pivits that are installed on the pf about 3/4 back that the pf slides on, were 2 different sizes. One was an inch taller than the other. I sent stern pics and they sent me the 4 dollar part, but it pissed me off that a new game got such little quality control. check it out. kruzman
Quoted from kruzman:This may or may not be the case but when I got my WPT I had the same prob and when I looked the 2 pivits that are installed on the pf about 3/4 back that the pf slides on, were 2 different sizes. One was an inch taller than the other. I sent stern pics and they sent me the 4 dollar part, but it pissed me off that a new game got such little quality control. check it out. kruzman
I may need to shim one of the pivots, probably the right one. I'll look at it more tonight when I am home.
Rob
Quoted from Ballsofsteel:pull out that left bracket and bend downwards, not a big problem?
or are they not mounted equally (holes drilled) into the playfield (left and right brackets)?
I think the brackets are fine, however the rear supports could be the problem. I'm going to pull them out tonight, swap them (as a test) and also measure the height of the slide rails on each side.
Rob
Here is a picture of my 'fix'. The problem is the right side cabinet rail is mounted almost 3/8 inch lower than the left side. I will get some longer screws and a proper shim the shape of the bracket made, but for now this fixes the problem completely.
I added a poll for how you would rate this cabinet 'flaw'.
Rob
20150306_225216.jpgI was talking to a very reputable person in the industry and he states that Stern's cabinet tolerances are crap because their tooling is old and worn. So no two cabinets are alike.
Quoted from SealClubber:I was talking to a very reputable person in the industry and he states that Stern's cabinet tolerances are crap because their tooling is old and worn. So no two cabinets are alike.
I agree the tolerances are bad. I put some metal half moon protectors on MET and the fit was spot on. Then I put some on ST and the flipper buttons are mounted 1mm - 2mm lower than they should be. So there's a little 1mm gap between the rail and the protector. Anyone with OCD would probably freak I suppose.
Rob
Quoted from Ballsofsteel:wow, that is worse than I assumed. glad you got it sorted out.
No, unfortunately it's not sorted out. 
I had to remove the shim because it was throwing the upper playfield level way out. I thought the problem was the rails, but evidently not. With the shim removed the top is now level again. The playfield is back to as before like it has a bit of a twist. So, maybe the playfield has a slight warp to it? I used a small (4 inch) bubble level to measure all over the playfield and everything seems ok. I'm going to put a rubber shim under the lockdown bar to keep the playfield hook pushed down on the left side. Maybe the playfield will sort itself out.
Rob
I thought I would follow up this thread and say I have contacted my distributor and Stern requesting a warranty evaluation. Instead of pictures, I created a short video which demonstrates the problem:
In the video, I think my measurement was too conservative and I should have said 1/8th at least. I did some searches and I cannot find a reference for anyone having a Stern game with a warped playfield.
I spoke with Chas at Stern and sent him the video link which he is going to forward to their QA team for warranty evaluation. I was upfront and asked for a populated playfield because this isn't just a cosmetic flaw, it considerably affects how the game plays (and levels). I also have a permanent disability and just can't do all the work needed for a playfield swap (anymore).
The game has a build date of August 2013, but I didn't get it until summer 2014. I knew there was a problem with the playfield, but never gave it any thought until recently when I was laid off from work and had time to tinker with my games more. I can't guess what will happen and will just have to wait for Stern or my distributor to get back to me.
Rob
I know it seems to obvious to have been overlooked - but if everything is level the only thing that might not be straight is the lockdown receiver.
It's also strange that everything is level even though the right side cabinet rail is still mounted 3/8 inch lower.
Really curious what the fix will be.
If you were to put something on top of the playfield hook tall enough for the lockdown bar to keep pressure on it when latched, would it alleviate the lift so a ball rolls normally down the playfield?
That looks so minor and you're able to flatten it with such a light touch. How much does it affect play?
Quoted from TOK:If you were to put something on top of the playfield hook tall enough for the lockdown bar to keep pressure on it when latched, would it alleviate the lift so a ball rolls normally down the playfield?
That looks so minor and you're able to flatten it with such a light touch. How much does it affect play?
I can do that, but should not have to. A warped play field also affects value and resale ability. The game level is affected by about .8 of a degree.
Rob
Quoted from someoneelse:I know it seems to obvious to have been overlooked - but if everything is level the only thing that might not be straight is the lockdown receiver.
It's also strange that everything is level even though the right side cabinet rail is still mounted 3/8 inch lower.
Really curious what the fix will be.
Everything is level except playfield. The cabinet and receiver appear ok too. I thought it might be cabinet, but after measuring again it seems ok.
Rob
Find an unused hole through the playfield. Send a screw through it with a fender washer. Let it stay like that for a bit and it will flatten itself back out.
-Jim
My friend came over sunday and we spent 2 hours trying to level everything correctly. Even with the playfield seeming to be somewhat level in the middle, the ball rolls off the left flipper far too easy and traps on the right flipper easily. If one of us pushes down on the left side of the apron moderately, the corner pushes down and the left flipper traps better. Pushing the playfield hook down alone is not enough to level the playfield at the flippers so therefore putting something under the lockdown bar will not help. We did other measurements with different size levels and notice the 'rear right' and 'front left' playfield corners are both high. It's like the playfield has a diagonal warp. Of course the biggest symptom is that the ball doesn't trap on the left flipper very well. We just can't seem to get it to play level no matter how much we adjust the levellers. If we adjust too much, the playfield starts jamming in the cabinet and can't be pulled out then.
Rob
Have you had it longer than 1 year? If not,you'll be OK,but if so,Stern's gonna want you to cough up some $ to get another PF. I had to battle with them over a backglass that had a flaw & broke after 1 year warranty. About 4 weeks later,& $400,I got a new one.
Knowing stern better than most here is what I am gonna almost guarantee happens. One they do nothing. After all when they sold me a tf play field with no clear they offered to send me krylon clear. I paint cars too. Thought it was hilarious.
Secondly they say send the entire machine back. More than likely though they will do nothing. When it comes to things like this they view it as nit picky. Now if it was damage in shipping or a bad part they are awesome with that stuff.
Quoted from Rob_G:In the video, I think my measurement was too conservative and I should have said 1/8th at least. I did some searches and I cannot find a reference for anyone having a Stern game with a warped playfield.
A local op here has a BBH with a warped playfield from day 1. Thing is horrible to play. If that was the only BBH I had ever played, I would never want to play one again. There was another one on route with the warped one when it first came out and I could drop 125 million + on it. On the warped one, 45 million was like getting a billion. Biggest problem was that it was like the bird shot would move, you could never dial it in. Getting through 2 bird modes was damn near impossible even if that was all you shot for. He never did anything about it and everyone who played it suffered.
I pulled the apron off tonight and did some more checking. I noticed the hooks are were not aligned properly so I removed the left one. Upon taking the screws out, one was considerably bent. It's like the hook was mounted wrong and someone hammered it over to make it fit? The screw has about a 10 degree bend on it.
Rob
I have seen this type of damage from a pin being dropped while in the box. Jolted it enough to bend those hooks.
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:I have seen this type of damage from a pin being dropped while in the box. Jolted it enough to bend those hooks.
That makes perfect sense, as I really can't imagine a line worker trying to install that screw.
Unless it was on a Monday morning. 
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:I have seen this type of damage from a pin being dropped while in the box. Jolted it enough to bend those hooks.
I don't agree. If I put the hook on with straight screws, it doesn't fit properly. It's too far to the right. This was done at the factory to make it fit. To fix it properly I will need to slot the holes so I can move it left.
Rob
Quoted from Zitt:Man - that's nuts.
I would say that's bolts
Quoted from Rob_G:Offending screw:
Beat to fit, looks like you took it in the Stern.
ug.
at this point, i'd try to send in the entire assembled playfield to stern for a new one, and/or the entire machine for replacement?
hope it works out somehow for you.
Quoted from Ballsofsteel:ug.
at this point, i'd try to send in the entire assembled playfield to stern for a new one, and/or the entire machine for replacement?
hope it works out somehow for you.
After more work on the playfield and waiting for Stern to reply, I can't say for sure how the screw was bent like that. I shouldn't have said it was factory as there's no way to know for sure. There are these 'fingers' mounted in the cabinet sides which help align the playfield and once adjusted better, the playfield hooks are lined up correctly. The game is still a PITA to level and ball trapping on the flippers always favours the right side.
Rob
Quoted from DevilsTuner:Knowing stern better than most here is what I am gonna almost guarantee happens. One they do nothing. After all when they sold me a tf play field with no clear they offered to send me krylon clear. I paint cars too. Thought it was hilarious.
Secondly they say send the entire machine back. More than likely though they will do nothing. When it comes to things like this they view it as nit picky. Now if it was damage in shipping or a bad part they are awesome with that stuff.
So far they have done nothing except Chas keeps saying he will talk to someone and I never hear from him again. The last time he said he would talk to my distributor and that was 2 weeks ago. Before that he was going to talk to their warranty department. Obviously they don't want to replace a playfield, let alone a populated one.
Time to send a few more emails and maybe make a few more calls next week. I don't care if it takes time, but at least I would like to know they aren't ignoring me and just hoping I forget about it.
Rob
Who did you purchase the machine from? If NIB from Starburst, as you are in Canada, call them up and deal with them. Let them dick around with Stern, but if your bill or sale is within Canada, and with SB, you have a contract of sale for fitness of a product that does not meet it's own standard.
Looking at the last picture, is there a gap along most of the playfield/rail junction?
If yes, try this:
Remove the screws from the bottom of the playfield that hold the rail on. Does the playfield relax?
Sighting the now removed rail like you would a riffle. Is the rail straight or does it bow?
If the rail is totally straight, use about 5 clamps along the length of the rail, and clamp the rail tightly to the playfield before running the screws back in. This way there will be no gaps between.
Quoted from vid1900:Looking at the last picture, is there a gap along most of the playfield/rail junction?
If yes, try this:
Remove the screws from the bottom of the playfield that hold the rail on. Does the playfield relax?
Sighting the now removed rail like you would a riffle. Is the rail straight or does it bow?
If the rail is totally straight, use about 5 clamps along the length of the rail, and clamp the rail tightly to the playfield before running the screws back in. This way there will be no gaps between.
Chas contacted Starburst who in turn want Jason (smokedog) to come take a look at the game. Jason is the regional distributor I bought the game through. I have decided not to mess with it any further pending Jason taking a look and going from there.
Yes there are gaps between the side rail and playfield. I'm not sure why that is, but I thought I would make note of it anyhow. Maybe I got a monday game? lol
Rob
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