Personally, I'm disappointed with this update. Yes, it's better than it was. But it does not feel like a new game or anything that major. The crank it up modes are great but you may not even see them every game. The band member modes are still unimplemented. The game still doesn't have any of the strategy typical in Lyman coded games. I know the changelog list is long. But the game does not feel al that different to me. It's still not blasting through the multiballs. I think acdc is way better code wise.

If its really only a couple more weeks then sure. What evidence is there that it won't be a few more months? The game is pretty fun. And the crank it up modes did make it so you're not just repeating the same old thing. But am I the only one that doesn't see any real strategy in this game? If I am, can some of you point it out to me? The way I see it is you basically start a mb or two, do your best and repeat.

Other Lyman games have lots of strategy that I feel is lacking here. For example, MM has huge strategy in getting the madness modes started without starting the first one too early. Or in using mb to safely destroy castles. Acdc has massive scoring strategies on when to take jackpots, using mb to progress on to encore etc. Spiderman has great stacking and strategies as to getting the white spider modes started before a mutiball starts. I don't feel Metallica really has any of this.

And all the new code really is stuff that happens later in the game. It's not unreasonable to expect to play a couple games and never notice any of the significant new features.

I guess "very disappointed" is a bit strong. How about "somewhat disappointed".

Anyway, if another update really is just around the corner then I am ok with things and will wait it out. I expected something game changing though like when Lyman introduced VIP pass. I don't feel we got anything like that.

That's pretty cool then. I'll go update my friends LE and see how things look there. I'm glad some of those features are panning out for LE owners. I hope the next drop adds the dimension of rules strategy that Lyman usually provides in his games. Then I'll be happy.

I believe lady justice and fuel already existed though. So you got crank it up which is really cool no doubt. But the crank it up modes are somewhat difficult to get to and I doubt you see crank it up every game. That means the changes are at least somewhat subtle in that you may have a few games where you notice nothing different. Compare this to the big acdc drop last year when you skill shot VIP pass and have some super awesome strategic ways to use it like having your mb restart as you drain your last ball.

I'm not saying I know everything about the new rules. You're pretty good with rules. What types of strategy do you see here?

I never said there wasn't much to the update. In fact, I even pointed out that the changelog was long. What I said was I was disappointed in the update and am not finding there to be strategy typical with Lyman rulesets. It shouldn't take "a few days" to feel like the game is a lot different or not. I was able to tell after plunging the ball that acdc was dramatically changed on its big update last year. Woz update is completely different. This one feels rather minor for 7 months of waiting. I'm not here complaining about it or bashing stern. I'm simply saying that while it is better than it was, it falls short of my expectations. However, I was not aware that another update is due out in a couple weeks. Based on that, I will reserve my judgement for that.

Can anyone expand on this strategy? How do you light inserts and which inserts do you mean to light?

Thank you for your answer. This is very helpful. Using this strategy, I did get Crank it up after my first multiball.

I'd own a premium if it weren't for the square plate behind the hammer. It's not the hammer that ruins it but the plate. The round captive ball on the pro is so much more fun to shoot at.

So thanks to the strategies you guys gave me last night I am finding this update to be a lot better now. The crank it up stuff is really good and pretty easy to get into if you light a few inserts then start a multiball. I like the option to cash in or continue. Is the continue at a higher scoring rate or anything? I cashed in each time.

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I am in the same boat. I'm going to a friends to update his LE tonight and will give it a few plays to test and see if I change my mind. It's that square plate behind the hammer that ruins it.

Well in one way the pro is better: the ball is way better to hit than the metal plate. I can accept someone claiming that the sum of the premium is better than the sum of the pro. But its crazy to say "in no way". That's wrong because there is this one way. I'm going to update my friends LE shortly and test it a bit. If the net experience is greater, I'll upgrade.

I can accept your stance on that. But you can't say the premium is better "in every way" only that you feel its sums of benefits over the pro outweigh its shortcoming. I can accept that stance.

I spent some time on my friends LE tonight. Its plays pretty well. I'm not sure that the hammer plate was accepting all ball hits. On my pro, coffin mb starts very early on but on the LE it was very late in the game. It also seems there were a couple phantom locks. How often does that generally happen? Also, the captive ball is very sensitive. If you barely tap it it registers a hit. The plate seems to need a much stronger hit. Is that common or perhaps his game needs some tweaking?

I did like the hammer when it worked on an actual lock. It's well synced to the sound now and gives a great effect.

Are we sure these are coming? I heard "Lars is lit" and his insert was lit. Not sure how you light them. But perhaps that's all that's intended.

I gotta admit it when I'm wrong and this time it seems I was. You were right. Another day of solid play and I'm really changing my perspective here. The way crank it up was implemented really gives a ton of strategy to this game a I'm having a blast with it for the first time in months.

If I remember right from an interview with stern, John Borg said he designs both models at the as time. Steve Ritchie said he designs the LE and strips features for pro, and Gomez said he designs the pro and adds for the LE.

Did you toggle adjustment #80?

And if you do the above with no USB drive installed what happens? If it boot and asks for USB drive, get another USB. If it does the same thing, your boot rom is probably corrupted. You'll have to call stern.

If you are freezing up without the USB inserted, it obviously has nothing to do with the contents of the USB. Call Stern. Your boot rom is hosed. It's possible that an updated ROM will fix it, or possible that you need a new CPU board. They'll help you.

Sorry guys, all this is irrelevant to his problem. He cant even get it to boot without the usb inserted.

Can someone with a premium or LE go into their switch test and give me the switch numbers (row col) for each of the two spinners? Is it 37 and 38?

Alright. Thank you.

You might want to spend time playing both. Here is my break down in my opinion of course:

- color changing arrows - big plus on the premium. No alternative on the pro. This is the number 1 reason to go premium.
- colored GI segments - while neat, it's not as big of an impact as say xmen or acdc. A nicely led pro does well here. Not just as well but it's not huge either
- snake jaw - I think this is another big one. Especially with the add a ball multiball. The pro gives you option to immediate spit out the ball or if you don't enable that, you might get two stuck in there, which sucks if you only have two balls left in the mb.
- cross - I prefer the stationary one over the moving one. The flashers behind the cross are directly visible to the eye when the cross is down. The stationary one looks cool and has flasher built in
- Spinners - nice effect. No rules to them yet. Sounds are neat. But not a game changer
- hammer - this is pretty bad ass now. I really like it. But the downside is:
- captive ball - pro has an awesome captive ball. Premium has a horrible square plate. Common shots are captive ball bounce into snake. Captive ball bounce into sparky. Captive ball bounce over left ramp. With the square plate, you can occasionally do some of these things but not very often, not very easy to do them intentionally, and the ball always kind of comes back dead. It's not near as fun to shoot.

In my opinion, it really comes down to captive ball vs color changing inserts. You should spend time on both games to really decide.

I don't think this will matter. What will matter is that one the pro the shots to the captive ball almost never come directly backwards. It'll be almost impossible to actually lock balls. I'd love to hear how this turns out. If good, and I'm wrong about the above, I'll buy premium.

It really can't be the same to hit the cube vs the ball. If it were, they would have left the ball in on the LE design. The ball is round so only very straight on hits cause balls to float back where the magnet could grab the ball. This type of shot is infrequent. On the LE, it is designed to send the ball back at the magnet. This is the frequent result of the shot. On the LE, you can sometimes combo a ricochet from plate to snake but it's very hard to do and usually done by accident. This is by design or (again) the magnet couldn't reliably catch the ball. On the pro, you can reliably aim for the ball to snake combo. Ball to sparky is harder but happens frequently.

Remember, I had both pro and LE in my house together for several days making this comparison before settling on the pro. Unless someone has played a few hours on both games they may not know what one offers over the other. It's really not the same.

Please report how this turns out. Maybe its own thread when you get it done with the analysis.

Historically, Lyman has not opted to add optional ball savers even when massively requested to do so. Same was requested for acdc on made correct canon shot. At one point he even told he he would break down and do it because of overwhelming number of requests but ultimately never did.

Yes yes... You've already stated tons of times in the acdc threads that you think making a designated shot resulting in a cheap drain is fun. After all, who wouldn't find that fun? This isn't about that. It's an example of why Lyman probably won't implement the ball save for CIU.

Ok, can someone clarify how the CIU qualification works? I was under the impression that all I need to do is shoot completed lit inserts 15 times. I assumed this meant mark a lane, shoot sparky, shoot snake, shoot grave, remark the lane, complete at snake, now shoot that lane 15 times. What does captive ball have to do with it after all this? Im sorry if this was already discussed, but a few posts ago I was given the strategy for this and it wasn't the same as the above with the captive ball.

On the ball saver for the CIU mode, what do you guys think of this. Instead of a ball-saver, flash the CIU light for say 15 seconds. If you drain within that time you lose your ball, but CIU is still lit and you get an opportunity to start it on your next ball without requalifying it all over again.

I don't really agree. You need to be able to play the mode for it to be fun. If the mode starts and the ball drains instantly, (which happened to me today), well then you didn't play the mode nor did you have fun with it. Not only is this not fun, but it is also extremely irritating. If I had the chance on the next ball to shoot the scoop and try the mode again, then ok.