Now that's how you write some f***ing release notes.
So unless I missed it I didn't see anything in there about using the color changing LEDs to more effect, curious to see if real testing shows them doing more. That's one thing the Premium/LE really has over the Pro, but it may be that Lyman didn't want to lean on them too much.
Quoted from notaflyingtoy:
I wonder if the update will cause Aurich to like the hammer now...
Let's not be too hasty!
The real question is do things like the color changing LEDs offset the hammer? And does it work better now? I see all the notes about fixes for it. Plus it sounds like they finally gave it a proper sound?
I'm gonna get some time in on Rarehero's and see how it all feels.
Quoted from markmon:
If its really only a couple more weeks then sure. What evidence is there that it won't be a few more months?
Well think about it. A few more songs would probably help with the band modes, they probably count on them existing so as to not reuse other modes' songs. We already know that they're coming in a few weeks, Stern announced it today:
We will start programming these songs into the game immediately and in a few weeks we will release another update that integrates these songs into the game.
"integrates these songs" - I'd feel confident Lyman doesn't need a few weeks to add them to the jukebox. So I think it's reasonable to think there's more coming in a few weeks, and they just didn't want to make people keep waiting. Originally they implied the songs would be in by today remember? That didn't work out, so they dropped a major code update to tide people over.
I think we need to give Stern credit here. We bitched, and they listened. There has been more communication lately. X-Men, the game that people thought would rot got not just one update, but several bug fixes to afterwards. Metallica drops, it's not done, but Stern gives us a timeline for when to expect more.
We can be mad about the past, or we can recognize the improvements. I'm personally hoping to see some Star Trek love soon.
Quoted from pninja005:
So with new code which is best to get: pro or premium?
I would have said Pro before, better value, hammer of dubious value, kinda in the way, doesn't always work.
Now Rarehero's messing with that over the lighting advantages the Premium has. I hate giving up that kind of stuff, not just the light show, but the functional aspects of the inserts too. I was too tired to drive my ass to his house last night to try it myself, but I trust his judgement, so I'm definitely considering abandoning my hunt for a Pro now. Damnit.
There was obviously a reason they swapped the cube in instead. Otherwise why have two designs?
Man, easily the worst thing about this game now are the band callouts. Sorry, but they really suck. I'm still looking forward to playing the new code, a lot, but ugh. The game needs like 500% more Sparky, and 1000% less lifeless band members reading lines in a booth.
Also, One is a terrible pinball song.
Thanks for the video though!
I could happily never hear One again ever, pinball or otherwise. The first overexposed Metallica song.
I'm glad to hear they at least took out some of the lame callouts. It's cool that it's the band, sounds nice on paper, but they're not exactly professional voice actors. Steve Ritchie could show them how it's done!
Quoted from Rarehero:
Overexposed is a snob's word for GOOD. lol ...it was played a lot cuz people wanted to hear it. One & Sandman are classics.
Music is all personal, so I only argue for the fun of it, but to me One and Sandman aren't classics, they're watered down and mass appeal friendly. Which is basically how I feel about the entire Black album, and it's why I stopped bothering to listen to anything they did after it.
Now I freely admit that even RTL and MOP are on the "soft" side of my metal scale, so I'm personally not calibrated towards the more ballad stuff.
I do think, less subjectively, that One has way too long of a soft and slow build up to make a good pinball song though. I want more energy while I'm playing.
I still really want to play the game now though! Maybe I'll go to Pinball Land today and see how badly the LE there is mobbed.
Quoted from RobT:
Ironically I was thinking how much better they are now. I like them.
I'm going purely off that video posted. I still need to play the new code. See how they feel to me now.
And vex, it's okay for things to not be perfect. ACDC has shitty art. It's still a great game.
Yeah, that's what's doing me in, it just sounds like something I don't want to miss out on. The toys aren't such a big deal to me, but there's just a lot going on now with the Prem/LE lighting. I'll make it out to Greg's some night next week and see what I think. I'm not in a rush to buy, Star Trek is still new in my collection, but have to see how much longer they're gonna run it on the line.
Quoted from Rickwh:
If you do get one, will you be doing up any of your magic on it? Like Rule/price apron cards/decals etc.?
Yeah, for sure. Not entirely certain what all I'll touch, but you know me, can't leave well enough alone! Once the band member modes are in and the bugs worked out I'll look at condensing the rules into a card or two. Might take two for this one now like AC/DC did with everything Lyman is doing. There's a pattern forming here ...
Quoted from Rickwh:
I can make a few if people are interested. Just shoot me a pm and we can work it out. Im not looking to make money and dont have a ton of time, but id make a few if people are interested.
You know, hitting up Joe or someone with a laser cutter to make a batch would be a super easier way to do those if you wanted to make a stack for people. Just a thought.
Everyone I talk to wants a ball save on CIU, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lyman/Stern listen. I'd call that the #1 complaint about the new code even.
The problem is you can start it, and then have the ball leave the scoop, never touch a flipper, and drain. That sounds like a fair use of a ball saver. It's only on for a few seconds, not gonna help you finish the mode.
To me ball saves are about avoiding frustration, not helping you cheat.
Quoted from metallik:
Sounds like a broken eject scoop. Why not just fix it so it delivers to the left flipper every time? I'd hope we're past the days we need software ballsavers to compensate for crummy hardware design...
I don't own the game, so I dunno what to say, that's the story I got just yesterday from someone at Pinball Land. I see the complaint all over the forums here. I'm sure if they add it it will be optional, don't turn it on if you don't want it.
On my Shadow I turn on the ball saver (all or 3-4 seconds if that) for the middle shot. It's a hard enough game without getting the SDTM drains. If you don't have it on on your Shadow, hey, your game. I don't pretend my game room is a PAPA tournament. Nor do I set my games on 5 balls and bring in all my outlane posts, but if I wanted to I would, what's the point of owning your very own pinballs if you can't set them up in a way that makes you happy?
Quoted from Sparky:
When I had HSII, it would drain every time I started 4th Gear Super Charger. No ball save. It became comical, like the pinball gods were having a good laugh.
The ball is wild.
Personally, I don't think there should be a ball save on CIU, and I don't think there should be ball saves at the beginning of multi-balls, either.
Do you turn them off in your game settings?
Quoted from RobT:
I can't think of any ball saver being added to any Stern based on "customer requests".
I wouldn't know, I'm not really versed in the Stern history, but this is Lyman, what he does is what Lyman does right? He just strikes me as the kind of guy who does what makes sense, and what makes his games better. Which is why he (supposedly) keeps working on his code from home for years after the games are released.
Anyways, I don't know him, so I won't speculate further, I just thought it was interesting that it seems like the closest thing to a "universal" request after the new code. Clearly some people think ball savers are cheap or cheating or something, but as long as it's an option, even if it defaults to off, seems okay to me. I wouldn't feel embarrassed to turn it on on my game at home personally.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:
The scoop kickout doesn't have a ball saver ever, what makes the CIU or SoS kickout different? Because it's high pressure?
Because it sucks to do all that work and then drain without even getting a chance for it to be your own fault? On Tron there's a sound cue and flasher to let you know the ball is being ejected anyways. Hopefully Metallica gets that too. And maybe the story I heard yesterday from someone with a Met Prem about eject, sling, sling, drain, with no flippers involved is because the scoop needed to be tuned, I dunno. But when you don't even get a chance to touch the ball that's not really all that awesome or hardcore, it's just stupid and not particularly fun. IMHO. If it's a flaw in the hardware and software can fix it, I say do it.
With the cannon you fire it. The angle it hits at is your choice. Maybe it should have a ball save, I wouldn't care if it was an option there. Don't use it if you don't like it. But at least you have some control.
Not if the problem is that the ball didn't even make it to the flippers no, which is why I think a ball save sounds good. But an "eject alert" is nice for timing purposes.
Quoted from sk8ball:
I did a simple mod. Added drop target foam to the top of the cube to help direct the ball down yet allow cube hits to register. Works almost 100% from the right flipper now.
Not sure this link will work but...
Can you post a pic of what that looks like?
Hey, Metallica threads have a betting tradition now! Anyone want to put up a $50 donation that says Lyman won't add a ball save? I'll spot you if Rarehero won't, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Family Guy is good for it.
How about it phishrace, you know "how Lyman rolls", you want to make Pinside some money?
Quoted from RobT:
It's pretty simple. You stick drop dead foam against the cube.
Why you need a pic of that?
He said the top to direct it down, not clear what that looks like. Sounded like more than just some foam on the face.
I guess I don't think of this as being a problem since I don't get drains from the scoop very often at all.
Maybe some people's scoops aren't aimed right? Someone was telling me about his machine doing it yesterday at Pinball Land, never got near the flippers.
There is a brief (~5 sec.) ball saver (after the ball has exited the bumpers) at the start of each ball. A ball saver is also in place at the start of any multiball, at the start of Royal Madness (which is not a multiball), and if you should complete Trolls! during Multiball Madness.
As they note, Royal Madness isn't a multiball, and it has a ball saver. So obviously Lyman isn't opposed to the idea.
Thanks sk8ball, that's what I figured from your description but that's helpful to see.
Welp, I'm officially over my hammer hate, and I'm really glad I didn't stumble on a deal for a cheap Pro, because as much as I hate to say it, I think I need the Premium now. The lighting differences are just too great. Got to spend some time on Rarehero's LE tonight, I'm sold.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:
'cheap pro' is hardly accurate. I'm unsure why we sometimes feel the need to rip down something else to say how much we like another. Pro is a bad ass machine man.
Quoted from smassa:
pretty sure he meant the price of the pro not how it plays.
Yup, I meant cheap like "two thousand dollars less". Or better yet, a used one for $3800 like I've seen before. Post new code probably gonna be a bit before we see those again though.
Pro is a great machine, used to be I thought it was the better option. I just personally can't give up the new lighting effects now that I've seen them. That stuff is pretty important to me. If that means waiting a bit because it's more money then so be it.
Yeah, the eyeballs coffin decal is great, I haven't seen one in person yet, but the design is solid.
Sure, they're successful, way more than when Cliff was alive. But come one now, that's not really the yardstick we're going to break out is it? I don't even really like Kill Em All, it's a bit too rock demo tape for me. Only track I ever pull out is Anesthesia, for obvious reasons. I feel like a broken record on this topic, but IMHO RTL and MOP are two of the best metal albums of all time, and whatever they became after that, for better or for worse, you can't take that away.
Quoted from Frax:
I mean, you've got pops, orbits, and ramps... but there's no spinners on the 4th one.
This has to rank up there with one of the dumbest things Stern has ever done. Was anyone seriously going to spend $1500 more to get the spinner? Which is a cheap part. Totally boned the game by gimping the Pro artificially like that.
And I mean the whole game, because now Lyman has to either ignore the spinner for the most part, or make rules that are better and make sense for Prem/LE and stupid for the Pro. Nobody wins with that. Should have left the spinner in place.
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