After reading this, I played four games in a row. I got Robert first the first two times, Lars first the third, and Kirk first the fourth. Must be random.

I never paid attention, but alot of games randomly switch what mode is about to light with pop hits.

I believe you can flail away on the block during a MB and get it.

Snake is another question - I had a bonus collect of over 15 snake hits on ball one, but I didn't have snake lit for CIU yet. Do only snake mouth and snake insert shots count - ie not jaw shots?

I wonder...how hard would it be to replace the metal plate on the premium/le with a pro style captive ball?

I'm slowly working on doing this. The one concern I have that most people probably aren't thinking of is the newton block is actually non magnetic, where a captive ball assembly typically is magnetic. I don't know what the repercussions will be with the coffin magnet so close so I'm looking at building a non magnetic version in the near future to try it out.

doublepost

what would be the end result you would like to accomplish by doing this?

No problem! Glad to help

To make that part of the game play more like the pro.

If you want to make your coffin lock even more useless then go for it. You dont think Stern tried it out then decided they needed to switch to the cube instead?

I think they changed the captive ball to the block to get the ball to roll down over the magnet after being hit vs ricocheting all over. It is hard enough to get the magnet to actually catch a fast moving ball, this would just make the ball less likely(impossible) to hit the magnet ( but you never know).

Hey I'am getting my premium from Trent in Ohio as well, my first NIB. How was the shipping? He said they will have it shipped to my door, will the driver actually pallet jack the pin in the Stern box to my front door? My garage is 20 feet from the street, if he bring in there that's perfect and I can take it from there. How does this delivery process work? Tip the driver, etc.?

The tipping question started a long thread a few months ago. Completely your call. I always do.

Depending on the size of the truck, I would count on the end of your driveway.

Played LE today then Pro.

Love the color changers - really good.

The rest is a mixture really as prefer the open p/f without the hammer and having the captive ball.

If I could swop from pro to premium it would be a no brainer but I wouldn't for the $$$$ you need to do it because of the negatives.

I picked it up at the show and saved big. I would recommend tipping the driver. I would especially do it if you plan to buy other pins shipped in the future. Two delivered my LOTR and I gave them $10 a piece.

After playing the new code for a couple days now, I couldn't agree more. I reached CIU about 6 times and lost the ball within the first 2-5 seconds several times. Bummer. I submitted a request for adding this...

Same here, but how is this different than SoS in Tron? Both are 1 ball modes that are hard to start, and if you drain, you're done.

Everyone I talk to wants a ball save on CIU, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lyman/Stern listen. I'd call that the #1 complaint about the new code even.

The problem is you can start it, and then have the ball leave the scoop, never touch a flipper, and drain. That sounds like a fair use of a ball saver. It's only on for a few seconds, not gonna help you finish the mode.

To me ball saves are about avoiding frustration, not helping you cheat.

ok, not hide, let's than talk to a more "open playfield", as some didnt like wolverine in x-men

Sounds like a broken eject scoop. Why not just fix it so it delivers to the left flipper every time? I'd hope we're past the days we need software ballsavers to compensate for crummy hardware design...

I can see the logic behind that, and I'm certainly not against an option for a ball save, even if it's on by default. My scoop does hit the flipper every time, but not in a way that I can control. If yours doesn't, that would be a PITA. Assuming the scoop kickout does hit the flipper, it would help if there was a kickout warning.

I thought the same thing.

My scoop shoots to the left flipper everytime, I would look at your scoop.

My thought as well. Only gripe I have is the scoop kickout on Metallica is unannounced and quite aggressive. There needs to be a cue of either sound or light to let you know that thing is coming at you.

the ball will eject on command when both flippers are pressed simultaneously.

"SCOOP DA WOOP! I'M A FIRING MUH PINBALL!"

I don't own the game, so I dunno what to say, that's the story I got just yesterday from someone at Pinball Land. I see the complaint all over the forums here. I'm sure if they add it it will be optional, don't turn it on if you don't want it.

On my Shadow I turn on the ball saver (all or 3-4 seconds if that) for the middle shot. It's a hard enough game without getting the SDTM drains. If you don't have it on on your Shadow, hey, your game. I don't pretend my game room is a PAPA tournament. Nor do I set my games on 5 balls and bring in all my outlane posts, but if I wanted to I would, what's the point of owning your very own pinballs if you can't set them up in a way that makes you happy?

When I had HSII, it would drain every time I started 4th Gear Super Charger. No ball save. It became comical, like the pinball gods were having a good laugh.

The ball is wild.

Personally, I don't think there should be a ball save on CIU, and I don't think there should be ball saves at the beginning of multi-balls, either.

Do you turn them off in your game settings?

Too lazy.

That's true…I'd like one on SoS as well And a 2-second GEM save...

Heck yes. Can anyone confirm/deny that the Premium cube and Pro ball use the same mounting holes? If so, I'm changing my LE cube to a ball.

Unfortunately it's not even close to the same thing, in my experience. I've never hit the cube and combo'd a free Sparky hit. I have, however, combo'd the cube to left outlane a couple dozen times. Never happens when I play a Pro.

Why not just have a ball save constantly active?

Recently I had to tighten up all three cube mounting nuts when I noticed it was getting harder & harder to score a hit over time. Loose cube was leeching a lot of the ball's momentum. Thankfully it's just a standard maintenance thing.

Sorry to bust everyone's bubble, but that is default TOPS scoring that has been in every SAM game ever made (and also most of the late-model Whitestars). It has nothing to do with the default high scores of the game itself, and all 5 scores are set low to ensure people that actually play the game in TOPS mode get to enter their names. It's not like I didn't work there for 9 years. I guess they're taking a dig/slam at Joe Blackwell too, huh?

Honestly this just makes me feel sorry for you guys trying to dig up dramas.

The cube needs to be tapered to slow the ball down rather then sending it bouncing back.

Why the hyperbole? I hope they do add a ball save, people would like it. If you own the game you can turn it off. I imagine any serious tournaments will leave it turned off too. So what's the problem?

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Lyman to add a ball save.

Why, does he have a history of not doing that?

I don't think this will matter. What will matter is that one the pro the shots to the captive ball almost never come directly backwards. It'll be almost impossible to actually lock balls. I'd love to hear how this turns out. If good, and I'm wrong about the above, I'll buy premium.

Well if they won't add a ball save, maybe they can add an option for the scoop power, like on the slingshots. Having adjustability might help?

I can't think of any ball saver being added to any Stern based on "customer requests".

It really can't be the same to hit the cube vs the ball. If it were, they would have left the ball in on the LE design. The ball is round so only very straight on hits cause balls to float back where the magnet could grab the ball. This type of shot is infrequent. On the LE, it is designed to send the ball back at the magnet. This is the frequent result of the shot. On the LE, you can sometimes combo a ricochet from plate to snake but it's very hard to do and usually done by accident. This is by design or (again) the magnet couldn't reliably catch the ball. On the pro, you can reliably aim for the ball to snake combo. Ball to sparky is harder but happens frequently.

Remember, I had both pro and LE in my house together for several days making this comparison before settling on the pro. Unless someone has played a few hours on both games they may not know what one offers over the other. It's really not the same.

I wouldn't know, I'm not really versed in the Stern history, but this is Lyman, what he does is what Lyman does right? He just strikes me as the kind of guy who does what makes sense, and what makes his games better. Which is why he (supposedly) keeps working on his code from home for years after the games are released.

Anyways, I don't know him, so I won't speculate further, I just thought it was interesting that it seems like the closest thing to a "universal" request after the new code. Clearly some people think ball savers are cheap or cheating or something, but as long as it's an option, even if it defaults to off, seems okay to me. I wouldn't feel embarrassed to turn it on on my game at home personally.

Ultimately I get few if any locks off a captive ball hit anyway... I really doubt my lock frequency will drop with a geometry change as most of my locks come from random roll overs and snake jaws. My bet is Stern had good intentions of that cube fixing things I don't see it working well as it is so why not try a few changes.

It's ultimately a minor part to trial and error a few ideas. Just have to get my butt in gear.

Disk restart on Tron isn't a ball saver but a similar gripe that was implemented after a few players mentioned it I understand.

I don't see this specific one happening though.

What was perceived as a joke is drama? All business and sense over there at JJP. Can we discuss what makes us feel sorry for you guys now?

Yes but that's got nothing to do with the fact it's unannounced if you don't do that. Rushing and fast forwarding animations/award delays aren't what most control players (nor myself) usually do. That's frankly usually where I get myself in trouble by rushing things.