(Topic ID: 283825)

MELTED CHIP Node 9 GB Premium

By BradVR4

10 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by pinballplusMN
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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20200630_182050 (resized).jpg
GP Node 9 Burnt Chip (resized).jpg
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GP Node 9 Burnt Chip Barcodes (resized).jpg
GP Node 8 Good Chip (resized).jpg
GB Chip Close Up (resized).jpg

#1 10 months ago

BURNT CHIP!

I purchased a HUO Ghostbuster Premium the other week - been having fun on it, and I woke up this morning to half the playfield being dark (I left machine on overnight) - the diagnostic failed Node 9 board. I did some searches and decided to pull the board after reseating the cat5 connections (didn't work) - and was going to swap with Node 8 and see if that told me anything. Before I did that - I noticed on the board that a whole chip had fried. I'm posting pictures here. Any advice on getting it fixed, or talking with Stern? Thanks!

GB Board Full (resized).jpgGB Chip Close Up (resized).jpgGP Node 8 Good Chip (resized).jpgGP Node 9 Burnt Chip (resized).jpgGP Node 9 Burnt Chip Barcodes (resized).jpg
#2 10 months ago

Someone else posted pictures of that exact same chip fried on another Spike 1 game. There were a few other components around that chip that also were damaged. Seems to be a common failure point unfortunately.

I'd contact Stern and see what they'd do for you. I'd at least try that before I'd even think of buying another node board.

#3 10 months ago

Wonder if bad led or short on playfiled would cause this?

#4 10 months ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

Wonder if bad led or short on playfiled would cause this?

Biggest cause of node issues are this chip blowing. It is a voltage reducing chip and cannot handle spikes or other electrical issues very well.

#5 10 months ago
Quoted from BradVR4:

BURNT CHIP!
I purchased a HUO Ghostbuster Premium the other week - been having fun on it, and I woke up this morning to half the playfield being dark (I left machine on overnight) - the diagnostic failed Node 9 board. I did some searches and decided to pull the board after reseating the cat5 connections (didn't work) - and was going to swap with Node 8 and see if that told me anything. Before I did that - I noticed on the board that a whole chip had fried. I'm posting pictures here. Any advice on getting it fixed, or talking with Stern? Thanks![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

If it helps you we have successfully replaced that chip only on Node boards and got them working properly. Any person with the correct equipment can replace it quite easily. We are in Australia so I cannot help out with repairer options.

Stern will want to sell you another node board if the game is out of warranty. The replacement node boards have different chip numbers.

#6 10 months ago

Thanks for the replies. I found this thread after a bit more searching - it has the same blown chip:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-spike-schematics-coming-this-month/page/5#post-5567829

I would love to find someone stateside that could replace it. I found the chip on mouser/digikey for like $3. Curious if other items have failed along with it. My biggest concern is what caused the failure in the first place. Last thing I want to do is drop $280 on a new board and have it happen again.

#7 10 months ago

schudel5 and pinballaddicted

Can you guys suggest what other components should be replaced if I decide to get board repaired? Also pinballaddicted - when you say cant handle voltage spikes and electrical issues very well - would theses be spikes coming from my home power source, or shorts/mods/etc on the playfield itself? Any suggestions would be great - I don't want to plug a new board in and have it happen again!

Thanks in advance.

-Brad

#8 10 months ago

it looks like you have the large, transistor-like diodes installed at D9 (which is almost right next to the chip that blew,) and that diode hasn't been stabilized yet. the legs on this diode can break due to vibration and can take out additional node boards and other stuff when it does.

[for reference, there are smaller versions also that hug the board and don't take need this reinforcement; my GB Pro has them.]

check out Stern Service Bulletin #189 for info on how to take care of this.

https://sternpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Stern-SB189.pdf

#9 10 months ago
Quoted from BradVR4:

schudel5 and pinballaddicted
Can you guys suggest what other components should be replaced if I decide to get board repaired? Also pinballaddicted - when you say cant handle voltage spikes and electrical issues very well - would theses be spikes coming from my home power source, or shorts/mods/etc on the playfield itself? Any suggestions would be great - I don't want to plug a new board in and have it happen again!
Thanks in advance.
-Brad

We have only ever changed the chip. We bought a pack of 10 chips. We have a electronics repair guys near us and we get him to swap the chips out. He also cleans the boards and tests other components on the board.

I am not exactly sure why they blow, we from our games and the games we look after have seen 4 go. Games have no mods and are plugged into surge protectors.

We have been in the hobby for a while and my outlaws own a sound and lighting company. Pinball machines and audio equipment have the same sort of chips fail. Voltage reducers, switch chips. Mosfets, transistors. Sometimes the part numbers are the same for audio and pinball. Sometimes the chips fail, swap them out and move on.

We have done both boards on our GBLE. Our distro swapped them out with different boards but cost was the same. Talk to Stern or a distro about that before you buy replacements.

Good luck!

Cheers

Con

20200630_182050 (resized).jpg

#11 10 months ago

pinballaddicted

Thanks for all the great info about the repair. May I ask what you are charged by your repair guy, so I can shop around for similar services here in the USA and know about what to expect? Wasn't sure if it was a 5 min job, or an hour long job. I'll definitely be calling Stern as well to chat. I get that stuff will "fail" over time.. but out of all the electronics I've owned over the years, rarely does anything stop working like this, and rarely does it have a HOLE burnt in the chip, and to see it repeated on multiple peoples machine in the EXACT same place, makes me think it is a systemic problem that shouldn't be the consumers responsibility in this case. Perhaps I am being unfair?

-Brad

#12 10 months ago
Quoted from BradVR4:

shouldn't be the consumers responsibility in this case.

The 30 day warranty has been printed on every manual for years. The occasional failures are well known at this point.

You should take responsibility. You assumed the risk when you purchased the table.

What is your rationale for it being someone else’s responsibility?

#13 10 months ago

YeOldPinPlayer

I appreciate your thoughts! I definitely do not argue with printed warranty periods, and such - Stern did not force me to buy their product, they can set the rules they want. They can also stand behind the quality of their products if they want - or not want to.

The rationale I have building for this particular issue is multi-faceted:

1) It is a relatively new machine with low plays, with new technology, and protections. Seems premature.
2) It isn't a part that in my mind is expected to be normal wear - like playfields, coils, other moving parts.
3) It seems to be an issue that repeats itself in the same manner over and over again from the initial research I'm seeing. And fairly scary when I think of something getting hot enough to melt itself, it bleeds over into a potential safety issue.

Various manufacturers over the years issue recalls, service bulletins, etc. that aim to rectify an issue that was missed during development. I feel that perhaps this might be one of those cases. I have not spoken to Stern yet personally, so I am not sure what remedies they will offer (if any) - just trying to understand the issue as much as I can so I can have an intelligent (and hopefully informed) conversation.

-Brad

#15 10 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

The 30 day warranty has been printed on every manual for years. The occasional failures are well known at this point.
You should take responsibility. You assumed the risk when you purchased the table.
What is your rationale for it being someone else’s responsibility?

Actually it's 2 months for circuit boards. But that's from the date Stern ships from Elk Grove to their distributor. So it could be out of warranty when you receive it.

That said, Stern seems to honor defective board replacement up to a year. I've had my distributor replace a defective node board after a year and also a second owner. You may not get anywhere, but I still think it's worth seeing if Stern will give you a $20 node board vs. paying over $100 for a replacement.

#16 10 months ago

I think it would be a fairly easy job to replace that chip, hot-air station if you have one but solder-bridging both sides quickly side-to-side is certainly doable as well.

#17 10 months ago
Quoted from BradVR4:

The rationale I have building for this particular issue is multi-faceted:

1) It is a relatively new machine with low plays, with new technology, and protections. Seems premature.
2) It isn't a part that in my mind is expected to be normal wear - like playfields, coils, other moving parts.
3) It seems to be an issue that repeats itself in the same manner over and over again from the initial research I'm seeing. And fairly scary when I think of something getting hot enough to melt itself, it bleeds over into a potential safety issue.

Those seem like good points to base a discussion around. I appreciate your willingness to explain your reasoning, I find that very helpful.

In my mind, everything has an expected failure rate. Obviously if MINE has failed that's bad for me, the question is 'what is normal'. No individual can answer that. Gathering data at scale might do it. It's hard to compare the failure rate of this component on this node board. Is it specific to this application? This position in the Spike architecture? Bad lot of chips? Sub-optimal component choice during the design?

The chip melting doesn't concern me much because that's an expected result from an internal short. When a chip fails open nothing happens but it stops working. If it fails closed that circuit heats up until it melts the short and goes open. Hopefully that will be before it catches anything else on fire.

Stern has the schematic available but it looks like a later revision maybe? 72D vs your 72B
https://sternpinball.com/support/ scroll to the bottom where all the Spike schematics are located.

#18 10 months ago
Quoted from BradVR4:

pinballaddicted
Thanks for all the great info about the repair. May I ask what you are charged by your repair guy, so I can shop around for similar services here in the USA and know about what to expect? Wasn't sure if it was a 5 min job, or an hour long job. I'll definitely be calling Stern as well to chat. I get that stuff will "fail" over time.. but out of all the electronics I've owned over the years, rarely does anything stop working like this, and rarely does it have a HOLE burnt in the chip, and to see it repeated on multiple peoples machine in the EXACT same place, makes me think it is a systemic problem that shouldn't be the consumers responsibility in this case. Perhaps I am being unfair?
-Brad

As bobukcat has explained for someone that knows what they are doing, looks really easy. Hot air station, magnifying computer to see what you are doing and takes less than 5 minutes to swap the chip out. It takes longer to clean the board and check it out. In Australia the node boards cost $400. Cost me $70 to get it fixed. 10 chips from Mouser did not cost much.

Have fun

#19 10 months ago
Quoted from BradVR4:

pinballaddicted
Thanks for all the great info about the repair. May I ask what you are charged by your repair guy, so I can shop around for similar services here in the USA and know about what to expect? Wasn't sure if it was a 5 min job, or an hour long job. I'll definitely be calling Stern as well to chat. I get that stuff will "fail" over time.. but out of all the electronics I've owned over the years, rarely does anything stop working like this, and rarely does it have a HOLE burnt in the chip, and to see it repeated on multiple peoples machine in the EXACT same place, makes me think it is a systemic problem that shouldn't be the consumers responsibility in this case. Perhaps I am being unfair?
-Brad

Youre being more than fair with the cost of these games.

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