(Topic ID: 18409)

Medieval Madness remake, did anyone else get their email?


By vid1900

7 years ago



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  • 92 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zippydapinhead
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 92 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 7 years ago

I come from a unique perspective on all this.

I had a deposit in on the MM with Wayne. I did not like the delays and lack of information, so I got out. I found a MM on CL for a nice price. Using the deposit as part of the funding, I bought the MM and had it sent of the HEP. If I would not have bailed when I did, I truly believe I would have never gotten a MM. The prices have almost doubled since then.

So basically, by my actions, I really do believe a HEP MM > Wayne's MM.

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

So basically, by my actions, I really do believe a HEP MM > Wayne's MM.

No question there. I have seen HEP's work, and watched his vids, etc. They truly are a restore, and are better than NIB. The quality of his workmanship, in my opinion, is unsurpassed. And he truly restores them. A blown out SoL hole on an AFM? He doesn't scrap that play field and put in a Mirco, he actually repairs the original play field to better than new. That is a restore.

Slapping in a Mirco into that same machine? Might as well call it for what it is, a reproduction. Not a restore.

#53 7 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Given the choice between a perfect HUO original Wms MM and a totally restored MM (new decals, playfield, plastics, ramps, etc) which would your experience tell you a collector would prefer?

I consider myself a collector.HUO doesn't always equal CQ.Some people's homes are not that clean.Smoking,pets,trying to fix stuff improperly.You know what I'm saying.
I'll take a pro restoration over HUO.Doug Huse,Chris Hutchens type work.Better than new.
Now if it's NIB,that of course would be the ultimate find!!!Scott

#54 7 years ago

Let's not forget Jim!

#55 7 years ago

My guess is when interest rates were decent, this scam paid pretty well.

#56 7 years ago

OH! It's this old as dirt cock tease. For some reason I thought someone else had gotten the rights to make these.

#57 7 years ago

*sigh* This argument is over nothing. You know what...I'll let Banky explain...

"Banky: Alright, now see this? This is a four-way road, okay? And dead in the center is a crisp, new, hundred dollar bill. Now, at the end of each of these streets are four people, okay? You following?

Holden: Yeah.

Banky: Good. Over here, we have a fully working, high quality, good as original Wayne special reproduction Medieval Madness. Down here, we have a nice, highly rated, holy grail, original Williams produced Medieval Madness. Over here, we got Santa Claus, and up here the Easter Bunny. Which one is going to get to the hundred dollar bill first?

Holden: What is this supposed to prove?

Banky: No, I'm serious. This is a serious exercise. It's like an SAT question. Which one is going to get to the hundred dollar bill first? The Wayne reproduction Medieval Madness, the original Medieval Madness, Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny?

Holden: The original Medieval Madness.

Banky: Good. Why?

Holden: I don't know.

Banky: [shouting] Because the other three are figments of your f*cking imagination!"

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

*sigh* This argument is over nothing. You know what...I'll let Banky explain...
"Banky: Alright, now see this? This is a four-way road, okay? And dead in the center is a crisp, new, hundred dollar bill. Now, at the end of each of these streets are four people, okay? You following?
Holden: Yeah.
Banky: Good. Over here, we have a fully working, high quality, good as original Wayne special reproduction Medieval Madness. Down here, we have a nice, highly rated, holy grail, original Williams produced Medieval Madness. Over here, we got Santa Claus, and up here the Easter Bunny. Which one is going to get to the hundred dollar bill first?
Holden: What is this supposed to prove?
Banky: No, I'm serious. This is a serious exercise. It's like an SAT question. Which one is going to get to the hundred dollar bill first? The Wayne reproduction Medieval Madness, the original Medieval Madness, Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny?
Holden: The original Medieval Madness.
Banky: Good. Why?
Holden: I don't know.
Banky: [shouting] Because the other three are figments of your f*cking imagination!"

The lawyer version of that joke is a bag of money in a room with an honest lawyer, a dishonest lwyer and mickey mouse. Who stole the money?

Dan

#60 7 years ago

There'll be demand for the new MMs once they get finished, I'm sure of this, even at 12K.

There are a lot of negativity towards Wayne on rgp and here - but most of the pinball world is not aware of all this history. When new MMs become really for sale (on his website or on ebay), people just see that this great machine is for sale in NIB condition. That's what'll matter to them.

As for collectability and value, imo MM is different from BBB.
BBB got hyped because it never ran in production and it was rare, only 10 (or 12 or whatever..) produced. Even the re-run was very limited, less than 200, you had to enter in advance, ..
Most of its value is just because its rare. Original or repro matters more because of this.

MM on the other hand is just the greatest, best playing game ever made If WMS hadn't stopped making them, they might have have sold more of them than they did of TAF. It's just a game that everyone loves, and demand is very strong, even from non-pinball collectors.
It's value is mostly not because it's an extremely rare game, but because its a great game to play.
Therefor imo 'Bally MMs' will also be in demand.

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

There'll be demand for the new MMs once they get finished, I'm sure of this, even at 12K.
There are a lot of negativity towards Wayne on rgp and here - but most of the pinball world is not aware of all this history. When new MMs become really for sale (on his website or on ebay), people just see that this great machine is for sale in NIB condition. That's what'll matter to them.
As for collectability and value, imo MM is different from BBB.
BBB got hyped because it never ran in production and it was rare, only 10 (or 12 or whatever..) produced. Even the re-run was very limited, less than 200, you had to enter in advance, ..
Most of its value is just because its rare. Original or repro matters more because of this.
MM on the other hand is just the greatest, best playing game ever made If WMS hadn't stopped making them, they might have have sold more of them than they did of TAF. It's just a game that everyone loves, and demand is very strong, even from non-pinball collectors.
It's value is mostly not because it's an extremely rare game, but because its a great game to play.
Therefor imo 'Bally MMs' will also be in demand.

Well Said. I'm going to bring mine to Jim (Honda350r) in the near future to make it as good or better than HEP. I have personally seen Jim's work and I would 100% rather have him restore and and add some newer mod's & features to mine than buy a NIB. The nice thing about this hobby is everyone likes something different when it comes to spending their hard earned cash. I worked my tail off to save and trade to get my MM so I feel for those who have had a deposit down for ?? years.

#62 7 years ago
Quoted from ctozzi:

I'm going to bring mine to Jim (Honda350r) in the near future to make it as good or better than HEP.

Better then HEP? You mean Chris Hutchins @ HighEndPins?

That's a pretty tall order, even for Jim!

#63 7 years ago

Was the original question answered?? Just curious if I missed any posts confirming it.

#64 7 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Better then HEP? You mean Chris Hutchins @ HighEndPins?

That's a pretty tall order, even for Jim!

Lets just say Chris is the King, he has more ins and outs than anybody, and can make any machine better than new.

Jim is a stud, and has some mad skills. He is a close friend to Chris and I know that they talk all the time. The best way for friends to become ex-friends is to start a pissing contest. Ask Jim, he will gladly tell you Chris is the man.

Having said that, if you have either one do a restore for you, you are one lucky person.

#65 7 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

Ask Jim, he will gladly tell you Chris is the man.

I knew that, hence the winky in my post! No contest required, peeing or otherwise.

#66 7 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I personally wouldn't care as long as it looked and played the same or better. I'm not into this as an investment, just fun.

Me too. But again, not at 12K. If I could get a repo like this at say... 6-7k I would be all over it as well as may others. But that is not going to happen.

#67 7 years ago

I don't use the word "schadenfreude" often.

However, that's exactly what I'll be feeling when MM is reproduced.

Smokedog paid attention to the whistling in the reeds. Twice.

There's a rude awakening afoot, and I'm first in the que for the "I todaso"

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

That's a pretty tall order, even for Jim!

Ain't that the truth ! Everything I know is what I stole from Chris ! Chris is on another level of experience and expertise . I will always play catch up . I am happy to call Chris my friend and mentor !

Ctozzi's comment was not meant as a dig to anyone just a guy giving me props ,thanks Tozzi ! Thanks Ted and JimJim for the nice words !

Jim

#69 7 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Better then HEP? You mean Chris Hutchins @ HighEndPins?
That's a pretty tall order, even for Jim!

Jim always gives a helluva lot of credit to Chris, who deserves it. And Chris comes up with some great combinations of color and mods, (witness my Black AFM). I've seen some of Chris's pins, and have Jim's work, and I can't see any difference. Chris has more years of experience, but a longer wait due to a deservedly good reputation. Jim is starting to build up that backlog of machines due to his growing great rep.

Two great guys with great work and complete honesty and reliability. Jim would tell you Chris has helped him to develop his skills in the area.

#70 7 years ago

Agree on all counts. My comment was not to disparage Jim's work at all (and I don't believe it did). He does great things for dying pins by bringing them back to life.

#71 7 years ago

Why you all give Wayno the light of day after all he hasn't done is beyond me.

#72 7 years ago

Since we know he has the playfields and CPUs done, I'd just tell him to ship me all the parts - I'll put it together myself.

#73 7 years ago

I was in on the original plan and had a low 200 number. I got out last year and thought I was one of the last holdouts. I did receive my deposit back in full when I asked for it without much hassle. I am not sure what to think of this now. Will they ever actually be made? Will they play the same? Are they really going to honor the original price? If the answer to all of these is yes than I have just missed out again. No problemo, its just pinball. Play on.

#74 7 years ago

If and its a big if, he really can come to market with a 1000 units, I am sure he gave back the refund very happily as he now has a table to sell for way,way more.

#75 7 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

he really can come to market with a 1000 units,

1000 units at $12K per is quite a tall order to fulfill...

#76 7 years ago
Quoted from marksf123:

1000 units at $12K per is quite a tall order to fulfill...

Especially considered any out there willing to spend 12k on a nice MM already has one.

#77 7 years ago

I bet at 9,999. He would sell them in 30 days.

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Since we know he has the playfields and CPUs done, I'd just tell him to ship me all the parts - I'll put it together myself.

The playfields and board sets aren't the hard part. All of that can be obtained without too much trouble (or if you don't want to track down the boards, you could buy a cheap, low-rated WPC-95 game like NBA Fastbreak and re-use its boards, cabinet, and some other parts - I think this is what Wally did). The hard part of reproducing MM or any other WPC game is going to be all the parts which are custom enough that you can't get them off-the-shelf, but durable or esoteric enough that they haven't been reproduced. I don't believe there is any current off-the-shelf source for the habitrails, for instance, or for the metal ball guide rails (such as the one which outlines the joust orbit). Those would have to be reproduced by hand using crude methods (which could be quite difficult), or re-engineered in a CAD program and sent to someone who can do low-volume prototyping. The same might be true of some metal brackets underneath the playfield.

#79 7 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

If and its a big if, he really can come to market with a 1000 units, I am sure he gave back the refund very happily as he now has a table to sell for way,way more.

This is 100% correct if it ever happens.

#80 7 years ago
Quoted from JDG1980:

I don't believe there is any current off-the-shelf source for the habitrails, for instance, or for the metal ball guide rails (such as the one which outlines the joust orbit). Those would have to be reproduced by hand using crude methods (which could be quite difficult), or re-engineered in a CAD program and sent to someone who can do low-volume prototyping. The same might be true of some metal brackets underneath the playfield.

Anyone who can weld can make all the habitrails in an afternoon. You could powder coat at home or drop them off at any plating shop and ask for heavy chrome.

The ball guide rails are easily cut at any laser cutter shop (like Cliffy has at work) or you could just spot weld "L tabs" to standard stainless strips (we used to have a spot welder back in the route days just for this).

The hard parts would be the exploding castle base and the drawbridge mech.

#81 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The hard parts would be the exploding castle base and the drawbridge mech.

I'm not too familiar with these mechanisms - how does the exploding castle work? Is it coil-driven or are there motors involved?
What parts of the drawbridge mechanism are unavailable? I think they sell the motor and gearshaft at various online parts stores, but not the whole assembly. If the missing parts are plastic, then a 3D printer might work to replicate them.

#82 7 years ago

The drawbridge has a lot of gears.

They are probably off the shelf standard sizes, but it looks complicated.

KGrHqNpEE-7EcJ9BPvZ8Enr7w60_12.JPG

#83 7 years ago

I Googled and found the exploding castle base:

http://mrpinballa2.cart.net.au/details/2901312.html

base.jpg

#84 7 years ago

I welcome them if they're made, if not, scammed people isn't cool at all.

#85 7 years ago

That castle base indeed looks like a rather complicated part. Of course, if you were doing a hand build for your own use, why not just buy it from that website you linked?
Regarding the drawbridge assembly, looks like there's a NOS full assembly on eBay now for $450. Kind of steep. There are enough moving parts in there that I suspect someone is going to have to reproduce these just to keep existing machines running - what do people do now if their MM drawbridge breaks?
I hate myself for thinking this (I don't like the loss of domestic manufacturing) but I have to wonder how much it would cost to have some factory in China churn out 100-1000 of those drawbridge gates. I think the original motor was Chinese anyway.

#86 7 years ago
Quoted from JDG1980:

Of course, if you were doing a hand build for your own use, why not just buy it from that website you linked?

A few months ago I could not find one for sale - had to eat my words...

#87 7 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I really don't know where you guys get this info from?

The art is the same the only thing missing is the Williams Trademarks.

As for the triangles the old coot Gene didn't pay the patent renewal, so no problems there.

As for the 12k this number has been mentioned before, we will need to get more for cancelled orders to offset the cost of producing less than 1,000 games.

The market will set that price.

I will answer the odd question but don't have the time in a day to reply to every post on several forums

I want to know what type of company is too busy to answer customer's questions. He makes a statemant like the one above, then disappears. I hope he makes the game. I have no horse in this race, but if I put a deposit down, my questions better get answered, odd or not. Poor business to ignore your customers IMHO.

#88 7 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I bet at 9,999. He would sell them in 30 days.

Why do you say that? If someone wants to spend 10k on a MM, they can buy a nice one right now. I'm skeptical that there are 1000 buyers willing to spend 10k, yet are unable to find a nice MM. Are you saying the since it's new, more people will get into the market?

1 year later
#89 6 years ago

"I todaso"

#90 6 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

When pigs fly people!!!

OOOHHHH PIGS ARE FLYING !!!!!

#91 6 years ago
Quoted from PinCrush:

Why do you say that? If someone wants to spend 10k on a MM, they can buy a nice one right now. I'm skeptical that there are 1000 buyers willing to spend 10k, yet are unable to find a nice MM. Are you saying the since it's new, more people will get into the market?

Bingo!!! Maybe it was not 9999 and 30 days but hey 8k in 12 hours was pretty close : )

And yes…because its new and lots of buyers came in to the market.

#92 6 years ago

Thread_NecroRD.jpg

Quoted from thunderking50:OOOHHHH PIGS ARE FLYING !!!!!

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