(Topic ID: 293410)

Medieval Madness Flippers not working

By wbkwbk

3 years ago


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  • 43 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by JohnTTwo
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#1 3 years ago

Hi
On my MM the flippers have stopped working. I've checked the fuses F115, F116, F117, F118 all are fine.
The power for the flipper coils seems to be all right: J119: pin 1,2 RED-GREEN have 70V, 4,5 RED-BLUE have 70V als well
Switch edges test the flipper opto board switches work very well, L, U.L, R, U.L Flipper buttons
Flipper Coil Test 12.01-04 Repeat/running (cycling through 01-04) nothing happens
Any help is very appreciated
Thank you

#2 3 years ago

Flipper activation on the Fliptronics board is controlled by the CPU through the flat ribbon cable, try reseating it to see if it makes any difference.

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Flipper activation on the Fliptronics board is controlled by the CPU through the flat ribbon cable, try reseating it to see if it makes any difference.

Thank you for this tip, I've tried that unfortunatelly still not working. I asume you are referring to the short ribbon cable that connects the CPU and the Power Driver Board. J211 on the CPU board

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from wbkwbk:

I asume you are referring to the short ribbon cable that connects the CPU and the Power Driver Board. J211 on the CPU board

I believe he is. MM doesn't have a separate fliptronics board.

LTG : )

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I believe he is. MM doesn't have a separate fliptronics board.
LTG : )

I did some progress. I've grounded the Diode 89 of Transistor 87 (Q87), and the left lower flipper worked. so it must be the control of the transistor 87, would you agree? In my oppinion the Power driver board J02 to CPU board J211 data bus connection must be working, as the flashers work.
Could it be that U8 / 74LS374 is faulty?

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from wbkwbk:

Could it be that U8 / 74LS374 is faulty?

Do the trolls work ?
Testmenu T.20 - page 1-23 in manual

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Do the trolls work ?
Testmenu T.20 - page 1-23 in manual

No the trolls do not work either

#8 3 years ago

it could be U8 but first try to reseat the ribbon cable between CPU- and Powerdriverboard.
And with machine OFF, press the ASIC on CPU-board careful in its socket.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

it could be U8 but first try to reseat the ribbon cable between CPU- and Powerdriverboard.
And with machine OFF, press the ASIC on CPU-board careful in its socket.

Thanks zaza
I've reseated the ribbon cable between CPU- and Powerdriverboard, still the same, also pressed the ASIC on CPU-board careful in its socket. So I currently have no other idea then replacing the U8. Altough to be honest it seems strange to me that such an IC just fails. But as mentioned I have no other idea at the moment then to replace the U8.

#10 3 years ago

Before removing U8, I would check with logic probe for pulsing pin 11 (CLK) and data lines.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from wbkwbk:

I've reseated the ribbon cable between CPU- and Powerdriverboard,

I wouldn't rule out a bad cable.

LTG : )

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Before removing U8, I would check with logic probe for pulsing pin 11 (CLK) and data lines.

Thank you for that hint, how can I perform this test? Many thanks

#13 3 years ago
#14 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I wouldn't rule out a bad cable.

The cable is fine I've tested every connection

#15 3 years ago

Perfect, Many thanks, I order the according hardware

#16 3 years ago

Sorry, wrong post - deleted

#17 3 years ago

So just to pile on this thread I am a new owner of MM original.

I get a switch error for the right flipper. Number 2 it seems like it must be the end switch or lower opto?

Any ideas on my first move to address this? I love fixing this stuff!

Thanks John

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Any ideas on my first move to address this?

What exactly does the error say, would help sort out the repair.

LTG : )

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

What exactly does the error say, would help sort out the repair.
LTG : )

Thanks for the response and I should have been more clear sorry.

Check Switch F2
R. .Flipper Button

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

R. .Flipper Button

Thank you.

Your right flipper button opto board has one of the two optos not working. If the right flipper works, it's the one for lane changes, entering initials, etc.

Tests - Switch Edge - pass something between each one, see which one isn't working.

You could reseat the connector to the flipper button opto board, and clean the optos too. Won't hurt, might help. If not replace the opto or get a new flipper button opto board.

LTG : )

#21 3 years ago

Swap the left and right flipper opto boards and see if the fault changes sides.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Thank you.
Your right flipper button opto board has one of the two optos not working. If the right flipper works, it's the one for lane changes, entering initials, etc.
Tests - Switch Edge - pass something between each one, see which one isn't working.
You could reseat the connector to the flipper button opto board, and clean the optos too. Won't hurt, might help. If not replace the opto or get a new flipper button opto board.
LTG : )

Thanks so much, I believe it is the the secondary switch because it flips when it should just doesn't trip the second switch. As a newbie would you suggest getting a new opto board or the opto itself? I am not afraid to try stuff and have ruined stuff with soldering stuff before and can laugh it off, education is expensive and I am not afraid to learn

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

Swap the left and right flipper opto boards and see if the fault changes sides.

Thanks with them flipped 180 from each other I did not know if they were interchangeable.

Will give this a whirl!

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Thanks so much, I believe it is the the secondary switch because it flips when it should just doesn't trip the second switch. As a newbie would you suggest getting a new opto board or the opto itself? I am not afraid to try stuff and have ruined stuff with soldering stuff before and can laugh it off, education is expensive and I am not afraid to learn

Start by cleaning the optos with a q-tip soaked in rubbing alcohol then be sure the interruptor is actually moving far enough out of the way to allow the opto beam to close. If it still doesn't work the optos themselves are easy to replace but be sure it's not a bad connector or a wire hasn't come loose in the connector first.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Start by cleaning the optos with a q-tip soaked in rubbing alcohol then be sure the interruptor is actually moving far enough out of the way to allow the opto beam to close. If it still doesn't work the optos themselves are easy to replace but be sure it's not a bad connector or a wire hasn't come loose in the connector first.

So an opto works by breaking the light beam or beam with an object. So normally open, the interruption breaks the circuit and trips the switch correct? If so what is the best way to jumper the switch to see if the opto is working. Thanks so much for helping and I bet this is answered 100's of times on this site. Just use a piece of wire and touch both connections on the opto intermittently would that ID the opto as bad or good?

Thanks this is fun!!!

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Thanks this is fun!!!

Remember you said that.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

So an opto works by breaking the light beam or beam with an object. So normally open, the interruption breaks the circuit and trips the switch correct? If so what is the best way to jumper the switch to see if the opto is working.

The emitter shines an invisible light. If the receiver detects it the switch shows as closed.

Have you used the switch test built into the software? I’d start with that, comparing the working side to the non-working side. A phone camera may pick up the signal from the emitter, that may tell you if the emitter is bad.

Your manual may have a drawing of the switch assembly that would show you what interrupts the beam. Then you could look inside the cabinet and figure out what’s going on.

#28 3 years ago

I was going to switch them but here what they look like.

10CEC8BB-35ED-45DA-800F-749C7BC7303B (resized).jpeg10CEC8BB-35ED-45DA-800F-749C7BC7303B (resized).jpegFD6C9FF0-30E9-4BFA-B59A-DEEF6663B0B5 (resized).jpegFD6C9FF0-30E9-4BFA-B59A-DEEF6663B0B5 (resized).jpeg
#29 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I was going to switch them but here what they look like.

You can switch them, but you do have do different styles of boards. The right one does have optos. If you can, just replace it.

Quoted from JohnTTwo:

If so what is the best way to jumper the switch to see if the opto is working.

Block the light beam path, I wouldn't go jumping anything.

LTG : )

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Just use a piece of wire and touch both connections on the opto intermittently would that ID the opto as bad or good?
Thanks this is fun!!!

Don't do this. Jumpering things when you don't fully understand the circuit is never, ever a good idea and will more than likely cause more problems.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

You can switch them, but you do have do different styles of boards. The right one does have optos. If you can, just replace it.

Block the light beam path, I wouldn't go jumping anything.
LTG : )

I take it the left one is the magnet based after-market board, I've never seen one of those in person, just pictures.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I take it the left one is the magnet based after-market board,

Yes the left one is.

LTG : )

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Block the light beam path, I wouldn't go jumping anything.
LTG : )

How about in your younger days. Just kidding couldn’t resist.

Thanks so much for your help.

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

How about in your younger days. Just kidding couldn’t resist.
Thanks so much for your help.

Any suggestions on best place to buy one?

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Any suggestions on best place to buy one?

https://www.pinballlife.com/fliptronics-type-2-opto-board-replacement.html

You might get two, a new one for both sides. Save the magnet one as a spare.

Quoted from JohnTTwo:

How about in your younger days. Just kidding couldn’t resist.

I did your mom and your sister in my younger days. Hey, this is fun.

LTG : )

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

https://www.pinballlife.com/fliptronics-type-2-opto-board-replacement.html
You might get two, a new one for both sides. Save the magnet one as a spare.

I did your mom and your sister in my younger days. Hey, this is fun.
LTG : )

Love it ha ha ha!

I will order them up.

The game plays fine now. I am assuming the second opto not working cuts some power to the coil so it won’t heat up and possibly burn out.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

https://www.pinballlife.com/fliptronics-type-2-opto-board-replacement.html
You might get two, a new one for both sides. Save the magnet one as a spare.

I did your mom and your sister in my younger days. Hey, this is fun.
LTG : )

So I don't have the original flipper items for the left side but like to fix things right and would like to do it up. Should I find the parts on PL or is this like a ebay thing?

Thanks

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I am assuming the second opto not working cuts some power to the coil so it won’t heat up and possibly burn out.

No - read this from post 20 :

Quoted from LTG:

it's the one for lane changes, entering initials, etc.

LTG : )

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

So I don't have the original flipper items for the left side but like to fix things right and would like to do it up.

No idea where you'd source parts for it and you couldn't convert it to optos.

If you want to just replace the opto on the right side : Look at the back of your board to see if you need the five legged one or the four legged one.

https://www.pinballlife.com/fliptronics-type-2-opto-board-replacement.html

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-12451-00

LTG : )

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Thank you.
Your right flipper button opto board has one of the two optos not working. If the right flipper works, it's the one for lane changes, entering initials, etc.
Tests - Switch Edge - pass something between each one, see which one isn't working.
You could reseat the connector to the flipper button opto board, and clean the optos too. Won't hurt, might help. If not replace the opto or get a new flipper button opto board.
LTG : )

I see said the blind man. Gotcha and at least I know the guy I bought this from had no idea it was broke cuz I hit a high score and was able to enter my initials. So it happened after that (one week ago).

But would this be a normally closed opto since the flipper plastic blocks the signal unless you push the button in?

How do you not get frustrated with greenies?

Thanks so much my sister says hi!

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

No idea where you'd source parts for it and you couldn't convert it to optos.
If you want to just replace the opto on the right side : Look at the back of your board to see if you need the five legged one or the four legged one.
https://www.pinballlife.com/fliptronics-type-2-opto-board-replacement.html
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-12451-00
LTG : )

5 legger dang nab it! I wanted to take an opto out of my old TZ clock and put it in this board but the TZ opto is a 4 legger! Man I could have really wrecked something soldered my first board. Maybe I will take out some of the TZ optos on that old board for fun.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

and was able to enter my initials.

You could scroll through the initials or lane changes in one direction only.

Quoted from JohnTTwo:

How do you not get frustrated with greenies?

I never think of that. I just hope as they grow and learn, that in the future they pass it on and help others. To keep pinball strong.

Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Thanks so much my sister says hi!

Please say hi back. I really miss the double hump bump thing she did.

LTG : )

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

You could scroll through the initials or lane changes in one direction only.

I never think of that. I just hope as they grow and learn, that in the future they pass it on and help others. To keep pinball strong.

Please say hi back. I really miss the double hump bump thing she did.
LTG : )

Oh I was able to scroll forward and back when entering initials I should have said that.

All the guys say that is her special thing, go to move I guess. Wish she would tell my wife about it.

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