(Topic ID: 36452)

A fool and his money are soon parted. :D


By The_Gorilla

7 years ago



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  • 133 posts
  • 59 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by cal50
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 133 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 7 years ago
Quoted from Capper96:

I think the major point that everyone needs to take from this is that just because this pin is asking 22k for it does not make your routed mm worth 11k

If it costs less than $11K for Chris to work his magic on it, then I'd argue that you're wrong. This, of course, assumes that the game actually sells for the asking price. It's a pretty simple equation:

The sale price of a HEP MM - the cost of a full HEP restore = the value of non restored MM.

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Around 1980, you could purchase a Shelby AC Cobra for around $10,000. It's only a matter of time before Barrett-Jackson starts wheeling these HEP MMs out between Shelbys and Hemi Mopars.

What cost $10000 in 1980 would cost $26868.17 in 2011.

Here's one listed for $34k. http://inv.idealclassiccars.net/view/1811/Maroon-1965-AC-Cobra-in-Sarasota-FL

I don't think the price really increased beyond inflation *that* much. If you consider than in 33 years that a number of the cars probably were lost/wrecked, that the price has mostly matched inflation + the value of a dwindling supply.

The problem I have is that most of the MM sales above say 10k is something that's happened in the last 3 years? so let's say you can buy a MM for 5k in 2008. Now it's 22k. 400% inflation over four years. that's a much different story and worth talking about.

#53 7 years ago
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#55 7 years ago

Just to put things in proper perspective and nothing related to the game or seller in question.
A HEP this or that doesn't specifically cost X or Y.
HEP makes a living off of one thing.Labor.Period end of discussion.
The rest is a series of factors such as the cost of a base game,options,parts,mods,shipping,no shipping etc.
HEP labor can range from $4000 to $5500 generally speaking.
You could have a MM that you bought for $1500 and a $4000 restore for a total of $5500 on one extreme or you could have a Popeye that you bought for $8000 and a $5500 restore for $13500.
Point is there are way more factors involved when figuring cost than HEP .HEP is service.It typically prices out at about $30-$35 an hour labor and materials.The title of the game has no meaning here only the amount of work needed to accomplish your goal or vision for it.I have restored many games over the years and I have determined long ago they are all built about the same.The " title market" and is what makes one cost much more than the other little else.

#56 7 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

What cost $10000 in 1980 would cost $26868.17 in 2011.
Here's one listed for $34k. http://inv.idealclassiccars.net/view/1811/Maroon-1965-AC-Cobra-in-Sarasota-FL
I don't think the price really increased beyond inflation *that* much. If you consider than in 33 years that a number of the cars probably were lost/wrecked, that the price has mostly matched inflation + the value of a dwindling supply.
The problem I have is that most of the MM sales above say 10k is something that's happened in the last 3 years? so let's say you can buy a MM for 5k in 2008. Now it's 22k. 400% inflation over four years. that's a much different story and worth talking about.

Well, I think you need to add another zero to the $26868.17, possibly add another 300k as well for a genuine Shelby CSX 289 or 427. The kits can be had all day in the 20-100k range.

Don't even get me started on cars I had a chance to purchase for a song that today would bring huge returns. The one I remember most - Daytona Yellow 1969 Camaro Z-28 with the JL8 rear disc brake option in need of restoration - $3200 in around 1989....

If MM prices keep going up, the market will split for un-restored originals as opposed to restored examples I bet. Same thing happens in the car market with the un-restored originals commanding much more. People will be looking for the perfect original MM with no repro parts, matching number boards, zero mods, etc in the coming years.

#57 7 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

Some guys get it, some don't. The best now. Wait in a couple years, you may see 25k or more for same pin. Core game goes up, mods go up, HEP charges more, transportation is more....

Yet the game-play stays the same as it ever was.

#58 7 years ago

Ooh, that's a nice bra. (Too bad she had to get implants to fill it up though.)

#59 7 years ago

I am a bit offended...well....maybe not....

#60 7 years ago

People looked at me like I had five eyes when I sold my MM back in 2000 for 12k with a new NOS everything....the whole RGP newsgroup dropped their jaws! The game was totally mint! I replaced it with a very nice MM (not NOS of course) but it is just amazing the price climb on this game.

I have to say....its just a pinball machine

Chris

#61 7 years ago

Lay off its cool its the new going rate! You must have maneur for brains if you don't jump on that.

#62 7 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

I'll take a guess..
LoTR - $3,500 -- purchased around 2009 or before
TAF - $3,500 - purchased around 2009 or before
TRS - $3,600 -- purchased Pro NIB or used in 2010-2011
Avatar - $3,800 -- purchased Pro NIB or used in 2010-2012
Tron Pro - $3,800 -- purchased NIB or used in 2011
ACDC Pro -- $3,800 -- purchased NIB or used in 2012.
That's $22K. The key is to remember that used TAF was a $3K game not too long ago. The Stern Pros could always be found for less than $4K through the right avenues.
Just a guess mind you, but a plausible guess.
Marcus

I guess in a perfect world with no shipping, no tax and super low pricing on Tron and ACDC.

#63 7 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

Well, I think you need to add another zero to the $26868.17,

Add two zeros. Whether an AC Cobra, MM pin or the original Ruby slippers from WOZ, If it its known as the most desirable item in any genre ( whether car, pin or piece of movie memorabilia) it can't help but increasing in price until only very wealthy can afford it. Especially if it has gone through a HEP restoration. Who really knows how many of the original 4000 or so MMs are left in salvageable
condition?

#64 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

If it costs less than $11K for Chris to work his magic on it, then I'd argue that you're wrong. This, of course, assumes that the game actually sells for the asking price. It's a pretty simple equation:
The sale price of a HEP MM - the cost of a full HEP restore = the value of non restored MM.

With this logic I'll just go invest money to get the rights for the creature statue, pay a guy to build an exact rep of it, then pay another guy to make the hologram. Slap it in my machine, list my creature for 15k, and make all the routed creechs now cost 9 grand.

You can install a gold toilet in your house but that does not raise the value or your home nor does it raise the value of all the other houses on the block.

#65 7 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Add two zeros. Whether an AC Cobra, MM pin or the original Ruby slippers from WOZ, If it its known as the most desirable item in any genre ( whether car, pin or piece of movie memorabilia) it can't help but increasing in price until only very wealthy can afford it. Especially if it has gone through a HEP restoration. Who really knows how many of the original 4000 or so MMs are left in salvageable
condition?

Nailed it! It doesn't matter that the value of MM= x number of other pins. It doesn't matter if it's not fun to play. Bang for the buck doesn't matter. The widespread opinion is it's the number one pin. Look at it's value over the past 4 years for further proof.

#66 7 years ago
Quoted from Ninefingers:

Nailed it! It doesn't matter that the value of MM= x number of other pins. It doesn't matter if it's not fun to play. Bang for the buck doesn't matter. The widespread opinion is it's the number one pin. Look at it's value over the past 4 years for further proof.

It is definitely the 1967 Corvette L-71 of pinball machines....

#67 7 years ago

the titties were the best part of this thread. sorry, gorilla. no offense meant.

#68 7 years ago

The game is sold.

#69 7 years ago
Quoted from jaimmy127:

The game is sold.

I know where there is still an AC Cobra available!

#70 7 years ago

And the ones who don't get it go on to the next fs post and complain................Maybe they will learn someday.

"It is what it is"

Congrats on sale.

#71 7 years ago

Yes nice game congrats

#72 7 years ago

Lastly, anyone arguing that this isn't worth what it sold for should recognize that it sold in like 3 days.
That's just rude.
Grats to buyer and seller!

#73 7 years ago
Quoted from PinJer:

That machine is S-I-C-K though... I would have that thing insured to the maximum and I sure as hell wouldn't touch it without gloves on. Hats off to (Chris, I believe) at HEP for making that thing the finest piece of Pinball specimen I have ever seen. I'd straight trade my girlfriend and RFM for it, but in all honesty, you know someone will buy it... there is plenty of money out there.

Please forward a picture of your girlfriend. We may be able to work something out.

Steve

#74 7 years ago

someone mentioned to me it has to do with the increase in prices on new machines. makes some sense.

#75 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Lastly, anyone arguing that this isn't worth what it sold for should recognize that it sold in like 3 days.That's just rude.Grats to buyer and seller!

good point

#76 7 years ago
Quoted from jaimmy127:

The game is sold.

SWEET !!

#77 7 years ago

It's been making the Price Police look foolish since the beginning of last decade. Get clued in to the fact that MM is no fad.

#78 7 years ago

they just don't realize how silly they look, time and time again.

#79 7 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

Ooh, that's a nice bra. (Too bad she had to get implants to fill it up though.)

Actually, they're real. Hard to tell with that crazy push up bra though.

Steve

-1
#80 7 years ago
Quoted from jaimmy127:

The game is sold.

Awesome.

Time to end the thread.

#81 7 years ago

Oh shit...here come the pinball bubble bursting threads

#82 7 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

The " title market" and is what makes one cost much more than the other little else

Well said Chris, but your labor will make any title as nice as it can possibly be!

#83 7 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

The difference being they kept building more houses. There is a relatively know fixed quantity of MM's.

And no sub prime pinball loans at 0% down. Although this would probably be a safer investment.

#84 7 years ago
Quoted from jaimmy127:

The game is sold.

Congrats

#85 7 years ago
Quoted from SteveW:

Please forward a picture of your girlfriend. We may be able to work something out.
Steve

She's somewhere along the lines of what Habo posted above... ^^^ haha. MM worthy my friend. lol

#86 7 years ago

congrats to the seller, price was not that bad, mm will hit 25k before summer.

#88 7 years ago

$30,000 by Christmas!

#89 7 years ago

With a HEP MM clear coated play field, a HEP MM cabinet, all the MM mods, nickel trim everywhere, a HEP MM quality head and boards, that Jd can reach for the stars. If you're going to dream, dream big!

#90 7 years ago

If the price goes up much more than 22k someone in China will start making reproductions . . . trademarks, copyrights, and patents be damned . . . at some point fakes/reproductions will come into being if the prices continue like this and the hobby grows much more (perhaps doubles in size, which would be pretty easy for it to do considering how small it is).

#91 7 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

With a HEP MM clear coated play field, a HEP MM cabinet, all the MM mods, nickel trim everywhere, a HEP MM quality head and boards, that Jd can reach for the stars. If you're going to dream, dream big!

Yeah but is this all really worth it? I mean, assuming it's dialed in, how much 'better' does an HEP pin play versus a routed one?

The games I have the most fun on lately are newer Sterns, and mostly because they've seen less plays and tend to have stronger flippers and less wear that affects key shots. If you keep a MM dialed in, service the flippers, slings, pops and catapult, and keep the ramps adjusted, is having a shiny HEP version really that much better? I mean, I appreciate the 'looks' and art of a pin, 100%. But I sure enjoy playing them a lot more. And dishing out $22k vs maybe finding a rougher machine for half that, which might be able to play just as good... and then having a lot left over for other fun games. I guess I'd rather be in the latter camp than the former.

I used to be in the 'has to be perfect' camp back when I was a teenager fixing up cars. But after I got my first paint job on my first 'nice' car, and I found my first gouge from a rock on the highway in the paint job, I had to learn that you can have pretty things, and you can use pretty things, but if you use them, they won't stay pretty forever. I almost fell in that trap with pinball, too. If you go back in my post history I remember once I started realizing what playfield wear was, I freaked out and got really bummed out that my Super Mario Bros (HA!) would never be 'perfect'. The crew here at pinside straightened me out though.

I guess what I'm saying is, for $22k I'd much rather have lots of machines than a nickel-plated 'collectors item'.

#92 7 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Yeah but is this all really worth it? I mean, assuming it's dialed in, how much 'better' does an HEP pin play versus a routed one?

Quoted from Richthofen:

I guess what I'm saying is, for $22k I'd much rather have lots of machines than a nickel-plated 'collectors item'.

It is to the buyer. That's all that matters.

#93 7 years ago

Rich, not everyone is like you. As poster above says, it is to the buyer. That's all that matters.
Have you ever spent top dollar on something you like?

Don't spend too much time on this, your life will pass you by.

#94 7 years ago

Wow if he would of sold this game on EBay he would of got about 10k for it.....
After eBay took their cut out of the 22k sale price

#95 7 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I guess what I'm saying is, for $22k I'd much rather have lots of machines than a nickel-plated 'collectors item'.

It all boils down to what type of collector you are. Some people simply enjoy playing the games and don't care at all about cosmetics as long as the machine is in decent mechanical condition. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have the collectors who want all of their games to be as close to perfect as possible, and can't stand the thought of even a minor blemish. Most of us fall somewhere in between.

#96 7 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Yeah but is this all really worth it? I mean, assuming it's dialed in, how much 'better' does an HEP pin play versus a routed one?

Doesn't matter.

#97 7 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Yeah but is this all really worth it? I mean, assuming it's dialed in, how much 'better' does an HEP pin play versus a routed one?

A HEP Pin that has been dialed in by Chris plays light years better than a routed game. It's not even close. It's akin to an NFL Football team playing your local high school football team. While both are playing football, there is no question that the NFL team plays on a superior level.

While both can offer hours of fun, a HEP pinball machine separates itself from the routed machine. It will have smoother shots, more pop in the pop bumpers, more action off the slings and perfect power on the flippers.

Now the price to acquire that difference may be beyond what you feel comfortable paying, but there is no denying the quality difference.

To quote one of the greatest philosophers of the 20th Century, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

Marcus

#98 7 years ago

To quote one of the greatest philosophers of the 20th Century, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."
Marcus

Anyone else get that quote?
Anyone...
Anyone...

#99 7 years ago

I got it immediately. If I ever have a male child, he will be named Ferris.

The question isn't "what are we going to do," the question is "what aren't we going to do?"

#100 7 years ago

In case you missed out on this fine machine, this other fine machine is still available.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=5037&aid=466

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