1968 Gottlieb Spin Wheel - 120v coil reset bank under playfield which controls the field sequences will not consistently allow all relays to engage to reset known state.

Example Video -

Shows the reset manually - 5 lights on, when normal reset via 120V coil, not all relays reset, several lights don't come back on as a good indicator it didn't reset.

Troubleshooting I have worked through:
- cleaned all metal on metal friction points where relays slide as reset bar gets pulled back (see picture)
- to rule it out, I did lube one of the coil reset items, did not make a difference
- cleaned 120V coil plastic tube and metal shaft (reassembled dry)
- filed and adjusted armature switch that breaks the 120V coil when relay #6 is reset
- adjusted position of the 120v coil, down all the way, up all the way, and multiple positions in the middle
- adjusted thumb screws to be even with the edges of the holder used to flip down whole reset bank - as noted on pinrepair.com, tried other positions as well
- sequence relay #1 (on the left) I shorted the return spring by 2 turns, no change
- verified on resetting, no switches are putting force on the bar - no switches to adjust

I considered all new springs, however when I shorted one, it didn't have an effect. When I pushed the reset bar by hand after a reset, it does not take much to click the relays that didn't reset.

I can't see anything in the way that would be interfering with the reset bar, hard place to work on under the playfield. There are a couple wires that come down the but they appear to be out of the way.

Seeking any tips on things I can try. The other reset bank got the same treatment regarding cleaning. It seems to be working without any issues.

BTW working around the 120V relay, so far I haven't done the 60hertz dance! Hope to get this figured out so I can stop working so close to that section!!

Cheers!

Referenced sources for troubleshooting:
- http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm
- https://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0435.html
- a few pinside posts, but seemly they were not mechanical issues

coil reset latch (resized).png

Also noticed that relay nbr 2 reset arm appears to require more travel than the others. When others are reset, they all align, however nbr hangs down. Each time the reset bar presses on nbr 2 it has to push differently then on the others. I would not see where it may have been bent, or out of alignment compared to the others. The other reset bank in the cabinet all align.

relay 2 out of wack (resized).png

Took out the nbr 2 actuating arm, it appears BENT - See picture.

First will attempt to bend it back to being straight without breaking it... and going to check out what else I need to order, and give Steve a call over at Pinball Resource. Never like to order just one thing... but given the time spent messing around so far, will be worth it to get it right. May also replace the top springs as well.

Getting the arm out wasn't hard after watching this video...

Thanks Mike at Pinball Help!

actuating arm (resized).png

Thanks edednedy for the suggestion. I adjusted the 3b 3rd switch score motor to be as close as I could without contact - no change. Refer to picture.

I created this video to show where I took the dwell time out of the troubleshooting by manually holding the 3B score motor switch closed with the #7 Armature switch jumped closed. In the video, the 5 lights are all on while 120v coil is engaged (switches are reset), however it doesn't latch all of them.

I also fixed the armature that was bent - did not improve it.

Seems that I have something mechanical preventing the latching - only thing left I can see is replace all the springs... however when I shortened 1 spring it didn't help.

I suspect this kind of issue and the complexity is why Gottlieb may have sunset this design in later years... While reading on pinrepair.com, he talks about how the armature switch is rare for sequence bank. I could just leave it by-passed, however I don't think based on the video that is causing the issue...

Schematic and adjustment pictures (resized).png

Thanks MarkG for the suggestion, that idea hadn't come up so far in what I have been reading else where...

Yes, I followed that again, also tried in several positions, no change.

I have two Gottlieb reset banks each with the same 120V Coil. I removed both coils, labeling all the parts to keep them separate. While out of the cabinet, I did a quick resistance check:
- sequence bank (what I have been troubleshooting) = 13.1 omh
- control bank = 13.7 omh

Next I swapped the coils in tact. I did not take the sleeves or the stops off. Because it is in a two piece bracket around the coil I was able to swap like for like.

The sequence coil is now actuating the control bank with no issue. The control bank has consistently reset without issue. Would seem the sleeve, coil, and stop are not an issue.

The control coil is now actuating the sequence bank - no change. The sequence bank still does not reset. Something mechanical still seems to be the issue.

I also tried removing one of the reset bar springs - no change.

Only thing I have left is to start taking parts off or moving parts and around. Worst case could be to swap the whole sequence bank and control bank... I suspect that introduce more issues with the working control bank.

I might look around and see if I can find another Gottlieb 7 relay reset bank to swap in.

Two more troubleshooting attempts.

1. Swap reset spring between control bank and sequence bank (the one that isn't working). No change. Control bank continued to reset fully, sequence bank did not.

2. adjusted reset bar hard stop. Tried both extending the travel of the reset bar, and reducing the reset bar travel. To reduce, I tripped all of the relays, pushed the reset bar just to the point before the switches started to activate (based on field lighting starting to change).

Both adjustments appeared to have no change.

relay reset spring - on top (resized).png

reset bar stop adjustment (resized).png

S O L V E D -- Adjusted the switches for the playfield 1-5 kick out holes, added more gap required before switch contacts close.

The root-cause was the vibration and violent action shaking the playfield when the 120V coil kicked the reset bar. It is mounted on the under the field close to the switches that activate the 1-5 sequent relays. As the reset engages, the playfield switches gap were to close and would close several times causing the reset back to pull in several relays.

I found this with a SLOW-MOTION video of the reset action. In the video, the reset back stops are not engaged, so there is extra play, however it is VERY obvious that the sequence relay #1 coil is activating a multiple times even though it should be resetting. To troubleshoot I disabled the switches in line with the coil to find the ones that required adjustment. More gap added, reset the back stops and now working consistently.

This experience has proven to be a DEEP DEEP lesson into the inner workings of the Gottlieb Reset Bank! Thank you all for your ideas and a contributions. Hope this helps someone in the future!!
solved - vibration closes field switches (resized).png