(Topic ID: 74701)

Maybe NAVL used to be good... be warned.


By adalogue

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by jeffspinballpalace
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    #1 5 years ago

    They just BLEW a time in transit estimate and it's arriving 6 days late due to issues with their agent in MO, who also lied about having contacted the receiving party about the delays.

    It was shipped with plenty of time to get there before Christmas based on their estimated delivery date, but will not arrive until after Christmas due to the delay.

    $460 from WA to MO and six days late?

    Never again.

    #2 5 years ago

    yep...thats becoming the norm. And don't even waste your time with trying to get some type of refund/credit.
    Michelle will "see what she can do" but you will never hear back from her.

    Feel bad for its late arrival especially at Christmas

    #3 5 years ago

    They have been Damaging a Ton of stuff recently too I'm told. Ive had to help a few guys out on claims

    Glad I can do LTL

    #4 5 years ago

    STI can be frustrating to deal with at times, and the cost sucks, but they are still the best option when it comes to moving pins across the 'States.

    Sorry about your luck though.

    #5 5 years ago

    Properly packaging a game for shipment via an LTL carrier isn't very difficult. Inconvenient maybe, but not difficult. If you ship and/or trade pins regularly, for $521 you can get a brand new steel strapping machine or probably $250 or less used. You can find an industrial business that has one (and everything else you'd need, including a dock and regular discounted LTL service for pickup) that would allow you access to use in their facility. You probably know someone. At least do it once so you can see how not hard it is

    #6 5 years ago

    You had to wait a few extra days for your toys. What were your other options? They are they ONLY shipper that both pays real insurance and doesn't require a pallet. Without NAVL, there are a bunch of us that wouldn't be able to buy or sell long distance without them. You'll have plenty of time to play your game, delays are frustrating, but keep it in perspective.

    Quoted from adalogue:

    $460 from WA to MO and six days late?

    It is actually. I deal with people on a daily basis that make we wonder how they figure out how to tie their shoes let alone properly pack my multiple thousand dollar game that's going to get paid out at pennies on the pound if destroyed.

    Quoted from Rush1169:

    Properly packaging a game for shipment via an LTL carrier isn't very difficult.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from burningman:

    yep...thats becoming the norm. And don't even waste your time with trying to get some type of refund/credit.
    Michelle will "see what she can do" but you will never hear back from her.

    Also my experience.

    Quoted from jalpert:

    You had to wait a few extra days for your toys. What were your other options? They are they ONLY shipper that both pays real insurance and doesn't require a pallet. Without NAVL, there are a bunch of us that wouldn't be able to buy or sell long distance without them. You'll have plenty of time to play your game, delays are frustrating, but keep it in perspective.

    Also very true!

    #8 5 years ago

    My NAVL shipment of a single pin from Florida to Missouri was 24 days past the estimated delivery. I can understand delays...the worst thing was the communication trail. Over the course of my machine's transit, I had to make over 30 phone calls attempting to get status--most calls began with stating that what I had been told the day before was incorrect. And...my machine was in "we have no idea where it is" land a total of 5 times.

    OP: maybe they just hate Missouri?

    #9 5 years ago

    Meh, winter freight shipping frequently has delays. Bad weather delays are really common for a 40 footer in the snow. I've had them take an extra 13 business days. They shipped to same address on other side of state somehow, lol. And it was so remote it took a while to get it out

    #10 5 years ago

    I was told that Michele no longer works at STI whenever I call there.What is that about ?

    #11 5 years ago

    She still works there as of 2 weeks ago,I just spoke to her.

    #12 5 years ago

    I have had four games shipped from the east coast to Vancouver B.C. using AFB and all arrived on time and in great condition. Also for under 400 bucks per machine.

    #13 5 years ago

    Well you guys can try
    Matthew Torgersen
    Office: (877) 331-5123 (x112)
    Fax: (801) 936-0962
    Email: matthew@freightwire.com
    Website: www.freightwire.com

    He delivered my pin 500 miles with no issue and beat Michelle by $80 bucks.

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    Well you guys can try
    Matthew Torgersen
    Office: (877) 331-5123 (x112)
    Fax: (801) 936-0962
    Email: matthew@freightwire.com
    Website: http://www.freightwire.com
    He delivered my pin 500 miles with no issue and beat Michelle by $80 bucks.

    Hell yeah. Always looking for new shippers

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from Elevatorman:

    She still works there as of 2 weeks ago,I just spoke to her.

    What # did you call ?

    #16 5 years ago

    Sometimes NAVL flat out drops the ball and it sucks. But, in my experience, the grass isn't always greener. Delays can happen, and with NAVL probably happen more frequently. Damage can happen, with NAVL it happens about the same, maybe a little less.

    It's how NAVL handles the claims. I've heard tons of people bitch about delays and a few about damage, but when it comes time to pay, very few complaints.

    For me, and maybe someone else is different, I've sent and recieved 20+ games and never had a scratch, and the real insurance I've been luckily enough to only heard about makes me feel pretty good.

    I can list a ton of complaints, like the time the shipper was sending a game to me and someone else, and they local guys swapped the tags. Or the time when they said it was a weekly pickup zone and it took them a month to pick up.

    I care about that stuff that day, but having a game wrecked and not being compensated fairly would sting 100 times harder and 100 times longer.

    Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:

    My NAVL shipment of a single pin from Florida to Missouri was 24 days past the estimated delivery.

    LOL. I'll let you guys test out the "new shippers." Nobody is doubting that you can ship quicker and cheaper. It'll be interesting to see how the situation is handled when someone drives a forklift through the game. You might seriously regret trying to save a few bucks and few days. Maybe not, but I'll stick with Michelle for now.

    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    Well you guys can try
    Matthew Torgersen
    Office: (877) 331-5123 (x112)
    Fax: (801) 936-0962
    Email: matthew@freightwire.com
    Website: http://www.freightwire.com

    He delivered my pin 500 miles with no issue and beat Michelle by $80 bucks.

    #17 5 years ago

    Whats michelles new contact number?

    #18 5 years ago

    jalpert...I totally agree.

    However, for me, being in an industry where customer service is king. You don't over-promise and under-deliver.

    I like to think of myself as a very easy going guy. But man, please don't tell me that you will get back to me and never call. Or make me call you 4 times to try and figure out why I am sitting in my living room at noon when I was told, the day before, that I was the first delivery the next day, (8am) and they showed up at 12:45 in the afternoon on a work day. And that was the second time they were supposed to deliver.

    I am very happy to hear about Matt and AFB. At least we may have an alternative. By the way, is there any contact info for AFB?

    When a company has no competition they can do whatever they want. Regardless of the game, or the deal, I will NEVER use NAVL/STI or Michelle for any shipping, ever again. I just hope that Matt and AFB can become the go-to guys (as well as pinballs on the move) vs. having to be stuck with NAVL/STI/Michelle.

    #19 5 years ago

    Do what I did -- ask to pay by credit card! This gave me the option to file a chargeback with my card company when they didn't deliver and tried charging me additional fees.

    The person I dealt with was Judy Metallo. I asked for Michelle several times but was always told she was on vacation. Judy would rarely answer my emails or messages and I usually had to keep calling over and over until she picked up.

    NAVL/Precision struck me as a poorly managed company with no concern for customer satisfaction. There may be worse, but there's got to be better.

    #20 5 years ago

    Let's take a step back. When you ship a pinball you have at least seven parties involved. You have Michelle / Judy, you have the local guys doing the pickup, you have the local dock, you have the truck driver, you have the remote dock (usually multiple docks and trucks along the way), then you have the destination dock, and then the local guys delivering the game.

    Michelle is an agent for STI, then you have STI, then the local pickup, then local delivery.... You have so many hands in the pot, if one of them goes bad you get a bad taste in your mouth.

    The local guys in Denver are better than great, I'd say fantastic/phenomenal. However, in your city, you might have a bad "NAVL" experience because a local guy screwed you.

    I guess my point is, let's not be so quick to blame Michelle, someone who is probably bending over backwards and doing everything she can for you, when at the end of the day, the problem is out of her control / authority.

    Quoted from burningman:

    that I was the first delivery the next day, (8am) and they showed up at 12:45 in the afternoon on a work day. And that was the second time they were supposed to deliver.

    I hope you find another shipper, competition is great and NAVL is expensive. Please be sure and let us know how it goes. But honestly, until you ship 100 games, and only 10-15 get dinged or damaged, and then they pay fairly every time, it's not worth saving $80 and a few days for me. Too much risk, I'd have one less pinball in my collection if a game I was responsible for got trashed and the shipper didn't pay.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    I guess my point is, let's not be so quick to blame Michelle, someone who is probably bending over backwards and doing everything she can for you, when at the end of the day, the problem is out of her control / authority.

    Man, how do I get into this racket. Sounds like my dream job. I want to run this business where I supervise a bunch of people, but have no direct financial responsibility to make sure they do their job with any modicum of care. All I want to do is collect the money, shift the blame, and MAKE IT RAIN.

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from burningman:

    jalpert...I totally agree.
    However, for me, being in an industry where customer service is king. You don't over-promise and under-deliver.
    I like to think of myself as a very easy going guy. But man, please don't tell me that you will get back to me and never call. Or make me call you 4 times to try and figure out why I am sitting in my living room at noon when I was told, the day before, that I was the first delivery the next day, (8am) and they showed up at 12:45 in the afternoon on a work day. And that was the second time they were supposed to deliver.
    I am very happy to hear about Matt and AFB. At least we may have an alternative. By the way, is there any contact info for AFB?
    When a company has no competition they can do whatever they want. Regardless of the game, or the deal, I will NEVER use NAVL/STI or Michelle for any shipping, ever again. I just hope that Matt and AFB can become the go-to guys (as well as pinballs on the move) vs. having to be stuck with NAVL/STI/Michelle.

    abfs.com is the website if you want to check it out.

    #23 5 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    I guess my point is, let's not be so quick to blame Michelle, someone who is probably bending over backwards and doing everything she can for you, when at the end of the day, the problem is out of her control / authority.

    I am with you on that...I run into this issue often. Nothing worse than having people who are not under your control working for you. But the difference is, I communicate this to my customers. I let them know beforehand how things will be handled, where possible pitfalls may come up, and (this is the best part), I do call them back, repetitively to make sure they are in the loop as to whats going on.

    I delt with Michelle. Michelle said she would call me back (more than once). Also said she would look into resolving the issue. Michelle said this to me. Not her dock person, or some other guy in another State. She said that to me. She made the promise to call, and did not, nor resolve anything. So, in my case, my first and biggest issue is with her directly and the lack of follow-up, professionalism, and frankly her outright lies to me. (she had no intention to call me back nor to resolve anything as I am now seeing by others who have had the same issues)

    So yes, STI's local people may be bad, weather delays, dock people may not work hard, etc....but for me, Michelle is the problem right out of the gate.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    I hope you find another shipper, competition is great and NAVL is expensive. Please be sure and let us know how it goes. But honestly, until you ship 100 games, and only 10-15 get dinged or damaged, and then they pay fairly every time, it's not worth saving $80 and a few days for me.

    10-15 out of 100?!? So you are saying that 10-15% of your shipments have been damaged and you are happy with that? Wow. Those are some low expectations. If I dealt with any company and they screwed up 10-15% of the time, someone else would have had my business a long time ago.

    #25 5 years ago

    I have had a dozen or so shipments with Michelle/STI over the last 4 years. I experienced good service every time. No problems. I'm not sure but I think Michelle/STI is not or no longer affiliated with NAVL.

    #26 5 years ago
    Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:

    I can understand delays...the worst thing was the communication trail. Over the course of my machine's transit, I had to make over 30 phone calls attempting to get status--most calls began with stating that what I had been told the day before was incorrect. And...my machine was in "we have no idea where it is" land a total of 5 times.

    Did you try using their tracking site?

    https://extranet.spectransinc.com/BOSShipmentTracking/BOSShipTrack.aspx

    #27 5 years ago

    Lots of mis-information about how NAVL works. Michelle supervises nobody. STI has always taken financial responsibility when a game is damaged. Just so I understand, how much "financial responsibility" do you think they should take because your toy is a few days late?

    Quoted from Frax:

    Man, how do I get into this racket. Sounds like my dream job. I want to run this business where I supervise a bunch of people, but have no direct financial responsibility to make sure they do their job with any modicum of care. All I want to do is collect the money, shift the blame, and MAKE IT RAIN.

    I don't ship much, I've only shipped / received about 20, never had a problem. I'm not sure what the actual number is, but a scuff on one game out of 10 seems realistic to me. What's realistic to you? Never? 1 in 100? Maybe I set the bar too low, maybe you too high, I don't know. I do think I've been a bit lucky I've never had an issue though.

    Quoted from LesManley:

    10-15 out of 100?!? So you are saying that 10-15% of your shipments have been damaged and you are happy with that? Wow. Those are some low expectations. If I dealt with any company and they screwed up 10-15% of the time, someone else would have had my business a long time ago.

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Man, how do I get into this racket. Sounds like my dream job. I want to run this business where I supervise a bunch of people, but have no direct financial responsibility to make sure they do their job with any modicum of care. All I want to do is collect the money, shift the blame, and MAKE IT RAIN.

    Easy, become a freight broker. Subscribe to Transport Topics for the best insight.

    #29 5 years ago

    Their tracking only monitors the truck your shipment was (supposed to be) on, not your actual shipment. Case in point, I watched the STI tracking site religiously as I tracked my pin coming from Denver. It got closer and closer, and was right on time. After it reached the final stop before heading to my local shipper on a Friday night, I noticed my "shipment" was now headed back towards Denver--and finally "arrived" a day later! Of course, no one would respond from STI with an answer on Monday morning. The seller (a super good guy) was able to track down the problem by calling the local shipper himself. Turns out it had never left the Denver shipping dock as it had been bumped off the truck at the last minute and was never re-scanned into the system! STI tracking is of no real use unless your pin was never removed from the truck prior to being delivered.

    #30 5 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    Just so I understand, how much "financial responsibility" do you think they should take because your toy is a few days late?

    Lets see...
    TAF was to arrive on a Friday, but they could not give me a time. Wife took a day off, and they didn't show.
    TAF was to arrive on the following Friday first delivery, shows up at 12:45, I ended up having to take a day off.

    Hummmm...2 full days of work, and my wifes salary is....and my salary is............
    Let me put it to you this way....our salaries are worth a hell of a lot more than the cost of shipping that damn pinball machine. Oh, and this is just one example...let me tell you about the time when they were going to pick up 3 games from me....lmao

    #31 5 years ago

    Call STI corporate 1-800-443-0940.

    The largest window should have been 4 hours. Some local guys are great, some are horrible. If your local guys are constantly horrible, let them know. Give them a chance to fix the issue. Talk to the dock manager, talk to STI corprate and then see what happens. Again, maybe nothing, STI is far from perfect. Have you done everything you can do as a consumer as well? Maybe you have, I dunno, just asking.

    Quoted from burningman:

    TAF was to arrive on a Friday, but they could not give me a time. Wife took a day off, and they didn't show.
    TAF was to arrive on the following Friday first delivery, shows up at 12:45, I ended up having to take a day off.

    #32 5 years ago

    I used them once and won't ever again. they insisted on an all day window which was strike one. strike two was when they gave me three days as options in the next three weeks. the third was when the English as a second language driver tried to extort payment from my 77 year old mother even though the bill was clearly marked paid. put it this way. they left a lasting impression.

    #33 5 years ago

    Michelle works for STI/former or still is division of NAVL.
    She has always answered my call and promptly provided me with tracking #, decent contract price, and except for a week long delay during a recent heavy ice storm here.. never a problem and always packed right.
    (630) 352-3312
    (877) 432-2646

    #34 5 years ago

    talk all you want about michelle but I never heard anything from navl after I emailed to complain.

    #35 5 years ago
    Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

    Michelle works for STI/former or still is division of NAVL.
    She has always answered my call and promptly provided me with tracking #, decent contract price, and except for a week long delay during a recent heavy ice storm here.. never a problem and always packed right.
    (630) 352-3312
    (877) 432-2646

    navl and STI are no longer associated with each other. they havent been for many years (according to michelle). try calling NAVL to get a shipping price! yikes.
    and matt is a great alternative but it is especially good if you can ship to and from a loading dock. otherwise, he runs into the same issues as michelle at STI and costs around the same.

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    10-15 out of 100?!? So you are saying that 10-15% of your shipments have been damaged and you are happy with that? Wow. Those are some low expectations. If I dealt with any company and they screwed up 10-15% of the time, someone else would have had my business a long time ago.

    +1000.

    I shipped a game one time in my life, with STI, and it arrived with a shattered backglass. Losing an easily replaceable glass on a common game is one thing, but on a rare game that is a good portion of the value right there, almost priceless. I will never ship a game again.

    #37 5 years ago

    Maybe you know what you're doing, but there are two sides to every story. While STI will take your game, when you are shipping a game with a glass you need to be especially careful with the pack job.

    Quoted from wayout440:

    +1000.

    I shipped a game one time in my life, with STI, and it arrived with a shattered backglass. Losing an easily replaceable glass on a common game is one thing, but on a rare game that is a good portion of the value right there, almost priceless. I will never ship a game again.

    #38 5 years ago
    Quoted from burningman:

    Lets see...
    TAF was to arrive on a Friday, but they could not give me a time. Wife took a day off, and they didn't show.
    TAF was to arrive on the following Friday first delivery, shows up at 12:45, I ended up having to take a day off.
    Hummmm...2 full days of work, and my wifes salary is....and my salary is............
    Let me put it to you this way....our salaries are worth a hell of a lot more than the cost of shipping that damn pinball machine. Oh, and this is just one example...let me tell you about the time when they were going to pick up 3 games from me....lmao

    Also, see if you can pickup at local terminal and set it up that way. I always do that since for me its a 15-20min drive and I get it at least a day faster, sometimes more.

    I've shipped via pallet with RTL a couple times. Much much lower price comparatively and actually seems less likely to get damaged since forklift etc doesn't pick up by game itself.

    #39 5 years ago

    Fun read here, and all I can do is speak my experience to add to the mix.
    Michelle has been very good to work with. I've shipped/received maybe 6-8 pins using her. Prices are up there, and they usually meet their delivery window, but it's all up to the local drivers. My local crew is average at best. They never give the 60 minute alert call. They show up and often refuse to put the game at my front door since my driveway is a small hill. I won't ask them to go into my front door since it's steps, and I understand that. Transit time is always odd to my mind. I had 2 games from the west coast hit me in under a week, yet I had a game from SC take 3 weeks to get here, and it went via Ohio if I recall.

    That said, games always come safe and sound, so no damage.
    I will say I've worked with a few other companies and had good and bad. My MB came from another local carrier. Their truck came out and the liftgate was broken. The driver and I actually worked together and humped the machine down which I'm sure STI wouldn't dream of. Machine was well packed, so no worries there.

    On the other hand, I had a coin pusher I shipped by a contractor from uShip. Guy showed up late (11 PM), it was crammed between two motorcycles and a bed,and pretty much slid it down the rear gate of his trailer, left it on the curb, and off he went.

    So good and bad I guess, but as everyone else mentioned, lots of people involved.

    #40 5 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    Maybe you know what you're doing, but there are two sides to every story. While STI will take your game, when you are shipping a game with a glass you need to be especially careful with the pack job.

    You're right, they were not careful with the pack job. I'm a hobbyist, I don't have any materials or knowledge how to pack games properly, I am not a shipper - that's their job. The pack and ship was all discussed and arranged ahead of time, and I made that perfectly clear to the buyer and STI.

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    Lots of mis-information about how NAVL works. Michelle supervises nobody. STI has always taken financial responsibility when a game is damaged. Just so I understand, how much "financial responsibility" do you think they should take because your toy is a few days late?

    I was talking about the people that run NAVL, or any of these stupid shipping companies for that matter, that take LTL freight and treat it all as if it was corporate garbage.

    Got nothing to do with when it arrives.

    #42 5 years ago

    I cannot believe you guys still use NAVL...I've been with Uship for around 4 years-actually longer I think-but I have NEVER had an issue with them. To date, I've had about 65-80 shipments, not all pins though, and have never looked back. They run MUCH cheaper than NAVL too, FWIW. Try them or keep complaining about NAVL!

    Norm

    #43 5 years ago

    After reading this thread I went and looked over my Tron LE and found a nice indentation on the head that I know was not there before it left former owner. The tron pro I sent for this trade also was received with a similar ding on the head.

    I think you really need to go the extra mile with packaging and use cardboard or bubble wrap or your asking for cabinet damage. I have seen worse, so I cannot say I won't use them again.

    #44 5 years ago

    Yep. And it was regularly kicking out statuses that were cryptic to me or didn't match what NAVL was telling me. These prompted me to call NAVL/ STI who didn't know what they meant either. So they would refer me to whoever they thought had the machine at the time, and their info would not match up either. Such is the game when dealing wthi sub-contractors and in my case, sub-contractors of sub-contractors. I just wish NAVL would've done the legwork instead of sending me off to these other companies to try to get info.

    Note: my shipping contact at NAVL was Judy Mentallo. I was told that Michelle wasn't available.

    Even though my machine was almost a month late, would I use NAVL again? Given the lack of other solid choices, yep.

    #45 5 years ago

    people defending navl is crazy (if you had a pin damaged.) if I bought a 50k car and had it shipped I would expect it to arrive scratch free. if I bought a $500 washer I would expect it to arrive scratch free. if I bought a $5000 pin I would expect it to arrive scratch free 100% of the time. if there was any additional damage AT ALL I would expect/demand compensation. why are expectations lowered because the supposedly have/had decent service?!?

    #46 5 years ago

    They also *lost* my friends Flintstones. Gone, No idea where it went.

    #47 5 years ago
    Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:

    Even though my machine was almost a month late, would I use NAVL again? Given the lack of other solid choices, yep.

    So that's the story then, they are not great but they are the supposedly the best game around?

    #48 5 years ago

    Sorry to hear about the delays. I have been using STI for years now and my delivery guy Leonard has been great each and every time. Blanket wrapped with stretch film and corner protectors (cardboard angles). Just picked up FirePower and did a great ob. Plus friendly and nice to talk to. Leonard does good and I understand the many hands in the pot issue.....

    #49 5 years ago

    I have shipped many machines with Judy as our contact and NEVER, EVER had a problem.

    Pack 'em as you would want 'em to arrive at your place and you will never have an issue.

    HD

    #50 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    They have been Damaging a Ton of stuff recently too I'm told. Ive had to help a few guys out on claims
    Glad I can do LTL

    They shipped a pin I won from an eBay auction. They told the seller leave the legs on.
    When I got my machine, the legs were bent at least 10 degrees. The machine had gotten slammed hard.
    All I got from STI was a check for new legs and 1 hour tech time.
    The machine never played right again.

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