Maverick optos problem, usual fixes not helping

You said you performed steps 1-4 in the S.B. When you get to step 4, do you get a switch closure at jumpering? Read the responses in step #4 in bold. Remember you must be in switch test as indicated in step #1

#3 9 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

Quoted from wayout440:
You said you performed steps 1-4 in the S.B. When you get to step 4, do you get a switch closure at jumpering? Read the responses in step #4 in bold. Remember you must be in switch test as indicated in step #1

Thanks and hate to write the whole thing out long hand but hard to answer typing and be super specific. Especially if I get other responses as well. I'll try to be clear, but please inquire if this is confusing

Following the above DE/Sega bulletin:
1. I entered diagnostics on Maverick and put it in switch test.

2. Blocked beam in switch test and no response in test from optos at 45. This is called on page 31 of manual the front lock. 46 the back lock optos respond fine when I do the above just for comparison.

3. It says to visually inspect the transmitter and it's glowing as bright it seems as the one on 46.

4. The instructions confuses me some on item #4. It says remove the 2 pin connector and gives the jumper instructions. However, it says pull the one with the green and white wire. That's actually on 46, not 45 which seems incorrect for my specific test. Anyway, tried it with the wires from the connector on 45 and no switch closure response. Just to compare tried it after that the same way on 46 and get switch closure on display.
I realize the transmitter and receiver at 45 could be out of alignment with one another, so I took them out of their locations completely. Had them connected electronically and lined them up carefully so the beam should be going from the transmitter and to the receiver. No response that way either in test mode.

In game play the ball briefly stays under the lock area, the plunger goes up to stop the ball in the lock area and it seems like it's going to register it's locked a ball. However, after a few seconds the plunger goes down, the ball exits the Lauren Belle and the machine doesn't register ever locking a ball no matter how many times you make this shot.

If I did it correctly (step 4) then I'm not getting a switch closure. It says remove the connector from the the green-white receiver and try the jumper test. But the green white is the lower or back lock opto 46 and the problem I'm having is with the one right above it #45.

#4 9 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Yes, your ball is not being registered as a lock because switch #45 is not being recognized.
The instructions say to short the column (GRN-XXX, where XXX is the color of the wire stripe) to the row (WHT-XXX, where XXX is the color of the wire stripe for the row)

Both lock optos use the same column so both switch #45 and #46 receiver should have one green wire with a blue stripe. Each switch receiver should also have a white wire with a stripe. #45 switch wire row return is a white wire with blue stripe . ( #46 row is a white wire with green stripe)

Shorting the white wire with blue stripe to the the green wire with a blue stripe is the only way to activate switch #45. If this does not happen, then there is no way the opto can trigger it even if the switch is perfectly working. Until you can make that switch closure with the row and column manually, it's useless to troubleshoot the opto. Also, If the color of the wires are incorrect, you'll need to trace them back to the other switches to figure out why.

mavsw.jpg

1 week later

#5 9 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

Hopefully today's the day I figure this out!

#6 9 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from WesleyCowan:
Hopefully today's the day I figure this out!

I've about lost hope and thinking I might have to call a tech.

2 weeks later

#7 9 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

In reading service update #67 it says the optos aren't infra red, i.e. like optos used in other pins. My tech doesn't believe other pinball optos will work as an alternative. It seems perhaps that we must find the rare optos the manual and service bulletin specify. Or a replacement opto board which I can't find anywhere. I'm wondering where to get the specific optos for these boards?

#8 9 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=OP-520-5102-00

OP
Quoted from WesleyCowan:
In reading service update #67 it says the optos aren't infra red, i.e. like optos used in other pins. My tech doesn't believe other pinball optos will work as an alternative. It seems perhaps that we must find the rare optos the manual and service bulletin specify. Or a replacement opto board which I can't find anywhere. I'm wondering where to get the specific optos for these boards?

You don't need any that are special or "rare" - but definitely not infrared. I repaired one of mine by cannibalizing a camper's headlamp to steal a bright visible red spectrum LED from it. Works great!

#9 9 years ago

DMR

PinballTiger225

Pinside member

Walker, LA

10y 30,650 188 2

#10 9 years ago

DMR

PinballTiger225

Pinside member

Walker, LA

10y 30,650 188 2

I got nothing if you want the 520-5103

#11 9 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballTiger225:
I got nothing if you want the 520-5103

Yes, trying to find the 520-5103 with no luck on any parts sites.

#12 9 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

What's wrong with the receiver? There's not a lot of components there, so really the only reason to replace the board is if it is missing, or severely damaged. Remember too, that it is just a switch. You could even replace it with a suitable infrared pair or rebuild the receiver from scratch if you can't locate the exact part.

opto.png

#13 9 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

I could do a rebuild and have on hand the transistors, leds/optos, and resistors. But finding a PCB board that would work and fit in the lock and align with the transmitter, not so sure about how to obtain that. I'm thinking cutting up a junk board wouldn't work.

3 weeks later

#14 8 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

Tried to fix the opto but couldn't get it to work. After looking in literally web-sites of pinball parts sellers from all over the world, found a seller from here that lives in Europe. Opto arrived after getting through customs and taking over a month. Installed and a game is working great!

Thanks for the responses and helpful info especially from wayout440!

#15 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

That's a great game, I'd be bumming if mine were down. Glad you got it going!

3 months later

#16 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

Nice to hear you got your opto prob fixed. I picked up a Maverick recently and it has not been working since day one. The ball will lock and register but then a bit later (randomly) the ball will release causing a 2 ball multiball (not correct).

I reflowed boat opto 1 on (receiver and transmitter). when putting it back together it did not work. it turns out that is was not aligned. so after much tweaking i got them aligned.

I thoroughly tested the boat optos (with balls). everything worked in switch test. fire up a game and shortly after locking ball one, during single ball play the boat released the ball again.

Maybe i still need to tweak the alignment of boat opto 1. Is there something else i should be looking at?

#17 8 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

Quoted from Shenanigander:
Nice to hear you got your opto prob fixed. I picked up a Maverick recently and it has not been working since day one. The ball will lock and register but then a bit later (randomly) the ball will release causing a 2 ball multiball (not correct).
I reflowed boat opto 1 on (receiver and transmitter). when putting it back together it did not work. it turns out that is was not aligned. so after much tweaking i got them aligned.
I thoroughly tested the boat optos (with balls). everything worked in switch test. fire up a game and shortly after locking ball one, during single ball play the boat released the ball again.
Maybe i still need to tweak the alignment of boat opto 1. Is there something else i should be looking at?

Those darn optos can be hard to get all aligned and working. And then vibrations from the machine can create alignment problems. I'm guessing you have optos not working real great. If you do get them to work consistently for awhile some people use tied downs to help them better stay aligned.

2 months later

#18 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

Well it turns out i was working on the boat optos when i should have been working on the boat entrance opto. turns out that the optos have been replaced with a read switch that does not work well. it seems to register randomly making my machine think that a ball has entered so it releases a 2nd ball into play.

I would like to put optos back in there. does anyone know where i can get a set that would work for this? is there a plug and play option?

I guess i should start with finding the part number and see anyone has them.

#19 8 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

Quoted from Shenanigander:
Well it turns out i was working on the boat optos when i should have been working on the boat entrance opto. turns out that the optos have been replaced with a read switch that does not work well. it seems to register randomly making my machine think that a ball has entered so it releases a 2nd ball into play.
I would like to put optos back in there. does anyone know where i can get a set that would work for this? is there a plug and play option?
I guess i should start with finding the part number and see anyone has them.

I tried and tried to find both the receiver and the transmitter optos and found no one that sells both. Marcos and Action Pinball list both on their sites, but I just looked and out of stock. Bay Area Amusements lists having the transmitter for $30 each. But out of the receiver. I found no one when I was looking months ago that sold the receiver except for a guy on Pinside who sold me a used one and it did work fine.

Part #: 520-5103-00 Opto receiver board
Part #: 520-5102-00 Opto Transmitter board

I believe you have to have those exact boards and can't use any other opto options at there, but I could be wrong and if so, someone else that's found a working alternative hopefully will give you their ideas. I think the guy I eventually bought from was in Belgium. I'm trying to remember and if I do, maybe he has more and can help you out? I see if I can figure it out and get back to you.

#20 8 years ago

???

WesleyCowan

Pinside member

http://www.pinballrebel.com/game/pins/mav/fix/fix.htm

"Well it turns out i was working on the boat optos when i should have been working on the boat entrance opto. turns out that the optos have been replaced with a reed switch that does not work well. it seems to register randomly making my machine think that a ball has entered so it releases a 2nd ball into play."

atariaction,

The above link talks about installing the reed switch where your is, I believe. Perhaps this info could get yours working better. I remember some poeple have tried this and found it to work. Others tried it, if I'm recalling corectly and found it didn't work great sometimes. But maybe it's real picky about placement, game vibrations or something else you can tweak?

One criticism of Maverick by some was the choice to use optos for the boat and paddlewheel areas. However, once you can get the problems you've been mentioning fixed, I personally think Maverick is a very fun game.

#21 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

So I wonder why optos were never a good solution in the first place? Why did they not work well for that application? (boat entrance)

I wonder if I swapped back to optos (if i can find them) if i will just encounter the same original problems?

My reed switch is essentially having the same problems that I imagine the optos were having.

Maybe there is some adjustment I can do to my reed switch that will solve the issue as you suggested.

Anyone have any experience with reed switch adjustments and any recommendations?

1 week later

#22 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Quoted from Shenanigander:
So I wonder why optos were never a good solution in the first place? Why did they not work well for that application? (boat entrance)

Opto's are a fine solution - in principle. No moving parts to wear out and no friction with the ball. The problems are more with mounting, the execution of the design, than with the fact they are optical switches. With a better design from the start in regards to a rigid mount that keeps the opto aligned, and some better wiring attachment resistant to vibration, and nobody would be talking about "all the opto problems with Maverick". Mine work perfectly. Optical switches are used everywhere in modern technology, and there's no reason for them to not be able to work in a pinball machine.

#23 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

Quoted from wayout440:
Opto's are a fine solution - in principle. No moving parts to wear out and no friction with the ball. The problems are more with mounting, the execution of the design, than with the fact they are optical switches. With a better design from the start in regards to a rigid mount that keeps the opto aligned, and some better wiring attachment resistant to vibration, and nobody would be talking about "all the opto problems with Maverick". Mine work perfectly. Optical switches are used everywhere in modern technology, and there's no reason for them to not be able to work in a pinball machine.

Good info! Maybe I will revert to optos if I can find the boards!

1 month later

#24 8 years ago

SJD

muzikman

Pinside member

I am excited to get my Maverick machine up and running, but I see that I face the same challenge as most Maverick owners - the paddle wheel entrance optos. The opto on the left side of the wheel entrance is missing - just a metal bracket there. I don't see a reed switch there either but I see where some holes may have been drilled to try that. I see a reed switch for $16 at Marco and some optos on ebay for $30 that say they work for Maverick. Is there another bracket or mounting assembly that I a missing if I wanted to put in an opto?

When I read about the reed switch option it says that the sender optic may be destroyed when drilling a hole so perhaps the reed switch is my only option now. Any advice is greatly appreciated!paddle_wheel_area.jpg

#25 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

I don't see anything missing, although tough to see under the metal lip of the bracket. This assembly is all you need. I replaced my LED on this transmitter board with an LED from a camping headlamp (Maverick uses visible light LEDs, not infrared) and has been perfect ever since. All you have to do is make certain the assembly doesn't move and can aim the light through the hole to the other opto.

#26 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

666_500_csupload_22556197_(resized).jpg

#27 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

#28 8 years ago

MUG

FrostyMug

Inactive member

8y 24,900 387

Just a fyi friends. Although I sold my Mav a month ago, it worked flawlessly for the prior 4 years. I had opto issues in the beginning. Took every one off and reflowed the solder on every joint. Opto, resistor...I reflowed all. Never had an issue again. Did my Judge Dredd also.I remember specificaly one opto moved just teeny weeny back and forth on the pcb board. All so small a distance...could not see with eyes but fingers felt the movement. My point is obviously that one must not have been a good connection. Theses solder joints get micro stress cracks in them over time. All the items, usually, on the pcb board are actually fine...just that cracks developed and then Bam! Intermittent opto issues because electrical continuity is not consistent!

If you obtain used replacements (heck, even new) aI suggest reflowing the solder just to be on the safe side.

Merry Xmas!

#29 8 years ago

SJD

muzikman

Pinside member

Thanks guys. One follow up. There is nothing under the lip of the metal bracket on the left of the paddle wheel (bottom side in the picture). SHould there be something? Does the opto you suggested attach directly to the bracket? I think I read somewhere about using fish paper. Thanks again for the advice! Merry Xmas!

3 months later

#30 8 years ago

SJD

muzikman

Pinside member

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/180-5145-XX

Finally trying to get my new optos installed for the paddle wheel entrance. I suspect that not all the wires are in the correct place. I think a prior owner may have installed a reed switch although it is no longer present.

Should there be wires above the playfield for the left side of the opto? The only wires coming up through the hole to the left of the paddle wheel are for the left orbit roll under.

Below the playfield I found two sets of wires that are green/ violet and white gray (which are the ones I need) but they are hooked into a connector with only set that comes out. It feeds up to the right side of the paddle wheel and appears to connected to the opto on the right.

Can someone please help me understand how the entrance area optos are wired. Thanks!

paddle_wheel_entry_(resized).jpg
opto_wires_(resized).jpg

Post last edited 8 years ago: “correction of typos”

#31 8 years ago

HRV

Harvs

Pinside member

Pleasant Prairie, WI

10y 65,900 445

You should have Black and Gray running on the left and Green and White running on the right. -Sorry for the crap pics but it shows whats going where.

IMG_1190_(resized).JPG

IMG_1189_(resized).JPG

#32 8 years ago

HRV

Harvs

Pinside member

Pleasant Prairie, WI

10y 65,900 445

Here's the Reed switch that can be used also, only uses the Green / White. I do have one if you need it.

#33 8 years ago

SJD

muzikman

Pinside member

Thanks Harvs. I may need to go with the reed switch option but first I'll see if I can figure out the optos.

I found some black and gray wires under the playfield that are probably the ones I need but there are two grays and two blacks fused together into a connector. Not sure how to correct that.

20160409_092035_(resized).jpg

#34 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Quoted from muzikman:
Thanks Harvs. I may need to go with the reed switch option but first I'll see if I can figure out the optos.
I found some black and gray wires under the playfield that are probably the ones I need but there are two grays and two blacks fused together into a connector. Not sure how to correct that.

20160409_092035_(resized).jpg

The black and gray are opto transmitter ground and +5VDC power, there isn't anything to correct there. The reason they are "fused" together, is the transmitting optos (the one that lights up red) all get the same power and this is daisy chained from one transmitter opto to the next. The RECIEVER optos that pick up the light beam have the corresponding switch row and column colors (wht/xxx and grn/xxx) When the light beam is broken by the ball, the row and column become connected, just like a mechanical switch.

5 years later

#35 2 years ago

JDS

quantumjosh

Pinside+ Frequent

Bala Cynwyd, PA

2y 38,300 98 16

this link is dead does anyone have the original pdf?
http://files.flipperspill.no/Support/Pinball/Serviceb/Stern/067_SB.PDF

8 months later

#36 1 year ago

???

drhex

Pinside member

Unknown

2y 12,900 12

Google Stern service bulletin 67. Same as in the manual though.

#37 1 year ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member