(Topic ID: 102991)

Maverick is going nuts!!!~?~>~=~...

By Ockeyhead

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

I'm having a very frustrating issue w/ Maverick. I have one of two options...I can either bang my head against the wall hoping that the vibrations from the wall will magically fix this once & for all. Or my next to last option would be to contact the excellent community at Pinside, w/ some knowledgeable insight to remedy this situation. Anyhow, I believe (99%) that I have an overheating issue somewhere within the machine. The problem seemed to manifest after playing a game & the first drop target underneath the Lauren Belle was wedged. This prevented the whole row from resetting back into place. Of coarse I replaced the broken drop target, then very strange things started happening within the machine. Initially when starting the machine, then playing a game or two ~ approximately after a half hour or so the machine gradually starts "acting up"...
1. The relay that controls the Lauren Belle starts clicking gradually, then gets progressively worse.
2. Then the underneath playfield lights blinks uncontrollably. As the relay clicks clicks.
3. After a minute or two the DMD flutters, then blanks out.
4. During a game when this problem arises, the Lauren Belle will "toot" gradually then becomes progressively worse. As the Lauren Belle "toots", the DMD will only show that image of the boat.
Here is what was done so far as to try to fix the issue...
1. The resistors in the MPU were replaced. The original resistors had a chalky residue.
2. The voltage regulator in the power supply board was replaced.
3. The rectifier in the power supply was replaced.
4. All the caps in the power supply were replaced.
5. The relay board that controls the Lauren Belle was replaced.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

#2 9 years ago

Sometimes a bad component will only begin to act up and cause problems once it heats up. It sound like that's your problem. You can purchase a can of freeze spray online or at a good electronics store. Turn your game on and wait for it to warm up and the problems to begin. Then begin cooling each component one at a time with the freeze spray. Larger components will take more spray than smaller ones. When you've sprayed a component and the problems stop, you've found your culprit.

You may be tempted to turn a can of air upside down to do this, but avoid that temptation. The propellants are different and you may wind up causing more damage to your boards. Save the cans of air for removing mylar from the playfield.

#3 9 years ago

Now that's thinking outside the box! Though more than half of the power supply board was replaced, would you recommend starting there? Or mabey The MPU board? Or possibly the rectifier that controls the DMD 18 volts just below the power supply board?

#4 9 years ago

Hello, I don't know what the cause of your issue is, but please help by not randomly replacing parts.

When you replaced the drop target, did you replace any of the switches? Check the diodes on the drop target switches and other nearby switches under the playfield, to verify they have not been inadvertently pushed into contact with any metal surfaces or wiring. Your problem sounds like some sort of short to me.

Best regards,

Tom

#5 9 years ago

No, nothing of that sort was replaced. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you stated might make sense if the problem were to happen at machine start up. Rather the issues are an incremental build up to DMD shut down. This usually takes place about 45 or so minutes. The machine plays perfectly ~ then all "dog" breaks loose.
Thank You Tom!

#6 9 years ago

When you replaced the drop target, did you have to remove any coils? When reinstalling the coils, you need to make sure they are properly oriented, so that the metal tabs on the coil are not making contact with the metal bracket that holds them.

I myself have made the unfortunate mistake of poking around the bottom of a playfield only to inadvertently close a switch, or bend a diode on a switch into the switch wire. I'm not saying that is what is going on here, but again, it sounds like a short on something. I lean towards the cause of the DMD not working being the result of some sort of failure in the CPU caused by a playfield short.

It seems like the Lauren Belle relay is involved. Just follow the wires on that relay to make sure that nothing has gotten pinched.

Good luck,

Tom

#7 9 years ago

Since his problems don't happen right away and take several minutes to appear, It's likely that it is a heat issue. Something is heating up and then failing. I'd focus on the components on the boards. Start with what you haven't replaced and try that freeze spray. It's a product made just for this kind of problem.

#8 9 years ago

Thanks to both of you for your prospective insight. I did however look underneath the playfield to see if possibly there might be a pinched wire or metal on metal contact. Though my trusty pinball spot-light went out, due to a light bulb that had enough, I was able to see barely that this doesn't seem to be a short issue. Yes no doubt, I will replace the pinball spot-light bulb this weekend, & do a little further investigating. But there is an outside chance this could be the culprit. The freeze spray scenario sounds very promising, & will definitely give this a try. What a great ideal ~ & only from the excellent folks at Pinside!!! Thanks guys, I'll respond accordingly.

#9 9 years ago

What are all the voltage measurements on the power supply?

#10 9 years ago

Once again, at machine start up & for the first game or two everything is functioning perfectly as it should. Shortly thereafter the machine goes into a spiral decline. So while the machine is functionally sound, as is the voltage. But once the heat up occurs, I'm sure the voltage readings are all over the place. So the voltage output would be just a residual effect of the main problem.

#11 9 years ago

I would start with looking at CN1 on the power supply. This is the power input from the transformer.
If you have any burnt female or male pins, you should take care of these first.

If that is ok, you need to do the voltage measurements to figure out where to go from here. It would be wise to measure the voltages when first turning on the game and then when it is acting up.

The DMD uses 5volts and 12volts, so you can see why it is being affected.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Data_East/Sega#Power_Supply

#12 9 years ago

Yes the CN1 connection was checked & is looking as it should. As are the other connections ~ they also were thoroughly checked about a month ago. I did however order a can of electronic freeze-it spray via E Bay, & once that arrives, that should pinpoint the problem. If not, then checking the voltage will be the next option. If there is any more advice, that would be greatly appreciated.

#13 9 years ago

I had the same problem. Mine would happen after the machine was on for 5 minutes or so and not go away until a cool down. I had major sound crackling and the popping issue with the Laura Bell (as well as some DMD and GI issues). It seemed like the spiral decline was sound (especially with ball drain (the horse neighing on "WOAH NELLY", laura bell toot, and a few others), Clicking of the Laura Bell, DMD/GI problems (can't remember the order of this). The clicking you hear is this little Christmas light looking connector thing that comes off the Laura Bell. It is actually a spark off that thing.

I replaced the Power driver board. that got rid of the clicking and popping sound under the laura bell, fixed the sound issues, GI issues, DMD.

I still would hear the hoot noise from the laura bell and the boat DMD graphic (at least it was a normal hoot at this point, not a ear piercing crackling noise). I had to fix the optos on the boat entrance and ball lock. They are not very powerful and have to be aligned perfectly in order to work. The can get thrown out of alignment pretty easily. Mine still act up occasionally, I think need to reflow them.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from Ockeyhead:

Yes the CN1 connection was checked & is looking as it should. As are the other connections ~ they also were thoroughly checked about a month ago. I did however order a can of electronic freeze-it spray via E Bay, & once that arrives, that should pinpoint the problem. If not, then checking the voltage will be the next option. If there is any more advice, that would be greatly appreciated.

Measuring the voltages should be your next step. There is no guarantee what fixed a game for one person will be the exact same failed part on your machine. We need to see if your problem is voltage related or not. I wouldn't even know where to begin to tell you where to freeze without knowing the voltages after it acts up. You really must be careful with freeze spray, especially on the power supply. As the machine warms up that area, the frost turns into moisture, which in turn is now conductive and you can really damage your machine. Best thing is once you see it warming up, use a heat gun to dry it off (with the machine off).

Another question I had is once the machine acted up, do you see the PIA LED lit up on the MPU? (It should stay off once the machine boots up.)

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

As the machine warms up that area, the frost turns into moisture, which in turn is now conductive and you can really damage your machine.

If using the proper freeze spray, there will be no moisture. This product is made just for this purpose. You do bring up a good point, though. One must be careful to use a product designed for testing circuit boards. This is why I cautioned against using canned air. Canned air contains a different kind of propellant which does create frost and can damage a board like you said.

#16 9 years ago

I had the opportunity to use the freeze spray last night, w/ nothing gained. I sprayed virtually the entire Power Supply & MPU Board, w/ no fluctuations in machines performance. My next objective is to order a new Power Supply Board. I purchased one on E Bay ~ ($75 + free shipping) ~ & it should arrive by Friday at the latest. I'll respond w/ an update & keep all informed w/ the outcome.

1 week later
#17 9 years ago

Sorry it took a while to respond, but in a perfect world pinball would come first & everything else thereafter. I did receive the Power Supply Board & installed it within the machine. Though I was pleased w/ the results the verdict is still out. The board did remedy the relay & underneath playfield light issue. But after approximately an hour I lose the background music, then shortly after the DMD goes blank. But to solve the DMD issue, I have ordered a Cable Wire Harness Update Kit. This kit will improve the efficiency with which the harness supplies current & voltage to the Large DMD (192 x 64). If anyone is having similar problems, Google the following ~ Sega harness update kit (500-6326-00). This installation kit is of coarse compatible w/ All Four Large DMD Sega Machines. Though this is a slow process, I will post another update after which the kit is installed.

1 week later
#18 9 years ago

As of last night, I have installed the Sega Harness Update Kit successfully , w/ nothing gained. The backround music is still going silent after one play, & the DMD still blacks out. But I have contacted my good friend Marlin Barshinger, & he has insisted to install my DMD in his Frankenstein machine. For those of you who don't know Marlin, he is the one of the original founders of the York Pinball Show, as well as an almost 30 years pinball technician. Anyway, at least this will narrow down the cause. At this moment, my guess is that the capacitors in the DMD need replaced ~ but we'll see...? I hope to see some of you at the York Show this Friday. It's going to be awesome as usual! Once again, I'll keep all informed of the progress either way.

2 weeks later
#19 9 years ago

Rush2112, Pull out the PPB board (lower left board in the backbox) and look to see if you have any cracked solder joints on the solder side of all the connector pins. Resolder any that need it.

1 month later
#20 9 years ago

Any progress?

5 months later
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