Hi everyone. Again in my 76 Gottlieb Volley, the match lights won't light up at end of game. I checked all the bulbs and they aren't burned out. Match system does work because I can here the knocker hit at end of game ( when it does match ). Any ideas sure can help...thanks
Quoted from wesley:Where is the game over relay?
Looking at my Atlantis schematic, there is no game over relay, its actually position 6 on the ball count unit.
So if Volley is similar see if your ball count unit in the head goes to position 6. if it does press on the spring loaded shoes and it may be just a dirty rivet there. Does your game over light come on? dia shows its tapped off of that. And there is the AS mini stepper relay in the head that moves between the 10 choices
Quoted from DaMoib:You've gotten a "00" match value after multiple games?
During the game, the wipers on the FS Stepper should rotate when the center pop bumper is hit. This is what generates the "random" number for matching.
Does your FS stepper move during a game?
yes these little mini stepper are a real pain. need to be cleaned up to work properly. You'll note that it is the only relay on its own jones plug so they can be demounted for cleaning
Quoted from wesley:Got the match light to "light", but it always reads 00. Doesn't change.
Is this still the case? Have you checked out the switch on the R relay and the operation/condition of the FS stepper?
You can use a jumper wire to short the FS relay lightbulb disc (WH - white wire is common) to the head general illumination wiring BLK-RED. It will illuminate the match numbers (and the Game Over light) throughout the game and help you align the score with the match number (as well as testing all match bulbs). You advance the match number on Volley by hitting the center pop bumper during a game.
Also some info on the AS-type relay (known as the "FS relay" in Volley) that controls your match function:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps
search for "AS relay stepper"
VolleyMatchLights1 (resized).jpgFirst, try the tips in the link I sent - the section beginning with "There are a couple of keys to servicing an AS stepper." If that doesn't work, we'll go from there...
What is the condition of the two non-moving contact plates (or discs as they are also called)? Did they need cleaning and re-lubing?
Quoted from wesley:I have the FS relay pulled out and the tension bars aren't applying too much pressure on the discs.
Pressure from the tension bar is one thing, but the drag of two wipers trying to move across two dirty and/or gummy discs is another. I'd still recommend cleaning the discs and lubing them. Can you take a picture and post it?
Quoted from wesley:Also when I force the plastic arm back in to its proper position there is a click from one of the relays in the cabinet.
The make/break switch mounted between the two discs is controlling the Alternating relay ("A" relay) when you manually toggle the FS relay. The A relay controls some of the rollover switch lights and their associated point scoring.
That's another thing to check according to the pinrepair site... their recommendations, in order, were:
1) Clean and lube the disc/wiper units
2) Make sure the switch on top of the relay (the make/break in this case) is not pressing down on the cam too hard and causing the relay to bind.
3) Tighten spring
4) Replace parts
As you progress down this list, you test the relay after each step, and stop once the relay is working. Not all steps are needed in all cases.
Quoted from wesley:Did you get it ?[quoted image]
Yep, got it... it's not the dirtiest that I've seen (the one on the pinrepair site looks lots worse), but that's not to say that they (both sides) couldn't stand a good cleaning and lube. Do you have the 600 grit sandpaper and some grease:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-grease
Quoted from wesley:Also, here is that coil that won't fire and reset the bank.[quoted image]
The good news is that the match relay can wait if you have to get some supplies - matching doesn't affect the gameplay. Bank reset however... I guess you never solved that issue? Did you check the fuse and the switches in this circuit (remember, ***unplug the machine*** when working in the bank reset area):
Quoted from wesley:Is the A relay suppose to move everytime the middle bumper is struck? Because the lever with the spring on is sometimes still touching the white coil, therefore not putting the plastic arm back in position.
The A relay or the FS relay?
The middle bumper and FS activate together and the make/break switch on FS along with a make/break on the drop targets control the A relay.
Your FS relay needs to be freed up...
Quoted from wesley:Never solved it. Trying to do too much. But you're correct, the match can wait. I checked the fuses, all are good. What was the switches again for that bank relay?
VolleySeqBankReset (resized).jpgQuoted from wesley:I found it, but it looks okay. It has a wire coming from each end of the fuse.
It doesn't look blown? The fuse holder is clean and shiny?
Also check that the bank's reset arm, along with the solenoid plunger it is connected to, move freely:
VolleyRelayBank (resized).jpgWith the machine unplugged, check the three switches from the schematic:
1) the switch on Relay S with a red and a yellow wire(s) on it (should be open)
2) the switch on Relay Q with a blue and an orange wire(s) on it (should be closed)
3) motor switch 4B with a yellow and an orange wire(s) on it (should be open)
manually exercise the switches:
and if I may borrow HowardR 's words:
For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening
manually exercise the switches *by actuating the armature*
I tinkered last night "with the pinball" and the problem is as you said with the Q relay. When I triggered it the bank reset coil wouldn't work. I tested the copper fingers and when I push a certain one it fired the reset target coils and the main bank coil.
I'm reading your last post and getting a little nervous. Can you describe in some more detail how you are testing these switches. It sounds like you are manipulating switch blades with the power on? Keep in mind that these switches are at 120 volts. You should be checking and adjusting them with the pinball machine *UNPLUGGED*.
Thanks, I've been shocked before. I had quite a few EM'S before. Problem is with the Q relay if I push on one of the points it will fire both the target banks and the main reset bank. But if I hit the game play button it won't trigger the main reset coil. Once again, thanks about my safety.
Quoted from wesley:Thanks, I've been shocked before. I had quite a few EM'S before. Problem is with the Q relay if I push on one of the points it will fire both the target banks and the main reset bank. But if I hit the game play button it won't trigger the main reset coil. Once again, thanks about my safety.
When you refer to the "game play button", you're referring to the red replay button on the coin door, correct? If so, when this button is pressed, does:
1) The S relay pull in (activate)?
2) The motor turn?
3) The targets reset?
4) But the bank reset does not?
If so... do the procedure I've indicated in post #44 (and added the armature note here):
Quoted from DaMoib:With the machine unplugged, check the three switches from the schematic:
1) the switch on Relay S with a red and a yellow wire(s) on it (should be open)
2) the switch on Relay Q with a blue and an orange wire(s) on it (should be closed)
3) motor switch 4B with a yellow and an orange wire(s) on it (should be open)manually exercise the switches *by actuating the armature*:
and if I may borrow HowardR 's words:
For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening
As far as being shocked before, I just have to say that previous shocks do not make you immune from future and potentially, more serious, shocks. Please check these switches out with the machine unplugged. When manually activating relays with the power on, use a wooden stick and wear gloves. That's the last I'll say on the matter, I promise 
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/match-lights?hl=wesley and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Halifax, NS
Colleyville, TX