Mata Hari Solenoids - Addressing Problem?

I picked up a disassembled project Mata Hari a couple weeks ago - this is the first time I'm trying to bring a pin back from the dead, so go easy on the noobie. Here's where I am:

- Replaced all original boards with Alltek's to get things up and running while I get the original boards checked out
- Repinned all connectors, including J4 on the SDB and J4 on the MPU twice to double-check solenoid connectivity/stability
- Fixed the transformer/Rottendog rectifier wiring, now gets proper voltage to all of the boards at their test points
- Machine now powers on, GI and control lights that aren't burned out working ok
- MPU boots
- When I Coin Up, Left Slingshot fires instead of a Chime
- When I start a game, the Bottom Right Thumper Bumper solenoid freaks out and pops repetitively
- Going into Test Mode for the solenoids, many don't fire and many fire twice (see the picture below - the first column is the expected solenoid firing order, and the last column is what the machine is actually doing). The Bottom Right Thumper Bumper does not pop repetitively in Test Mode like it does in a started game.

I'm pretty confident in the pins I made (and I don't have any more connectors on hand to do it a third time this weekend) - can this coil addressing issue be caused by anything else? The coils are daisy-chained, right? Can a bad diode on one or more coils cause addressing issues? Is there a programmatic way to determine the offending coil(s)? I've not yet pulled out any coils or changed any diodes....I suppose I need to learn but I am trying to avoid shotgunning all of them.

Does the chart with the expected vs. actual firing order offer any clues?

Thanx in advance for any help/guidance!

Solenoid Firing Test (resized).jpg

#2 5 years ago

BIL

dothedoo

Pinside member

12y 106K 7,265

Pretty classic symptoms of a break between MPU J4 pins 1-4 and SDB J4 pins 3-6.

Test continuity from the back of both boards to verify wiring, pins and headers.

#3 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

8y 114K 8,035

OP
Quoted from Mathazar:
Does the chart with the expected vs. actual firing order offer any clues?

Yes, the chart very much points to the problem.

As dothedoo mentioned, there are 4 signals from the MPU board to the SDB that select specific momentary solenoids to activate.
These signals are marked PB3, PB2, PB1 and PB0 on the schematic from the MPU board at connector J4 pins 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. They go to the SDB on J4 pins 3, 4, 5 and 6 respectively.
Below is the binary logic state of these signals (derived from the SDB schematic) showing what solenoids their combination activates.
Mapping out which solenoids are firing in the wrong order from your table, your problem specifically indicates that signal PB3 is stuck on a logic high "1" state at the SDB meaning there is an open circuit on this wire signal.
It's a red-white wire and it comes from MPU board connector J4 pin 1 and the destination is the SDB connector J4 pin 3. Check/reterminate the terminals on both ends - also check the soldering on the J4 pin header on the back of the solenoid driver board.

PPPP
BBBB
3210
==========================
0000 Saucer
0001 Chime 10
0010 Chime 100
0011 Chime 1000
0100 Chime 10000
0101 Knocker
0110 Outhole
0111 Pop Bumper Bottom Left
1000 Pop Bumper Top Left
1001 Pop Bumper Top Right
1010 Pop Bumper Bottom Right
1011 Slingshot Left
1100 Drop Target Reset Left
1101 Slingshot Right
1110 Drop Target Reset Right
1111 --

#4 5 years ago

KVW

Mathazar

Pinside+ Addict

dothedoo and Quench - you guys ROCK.

Many thanx for the logic state map you drew out....makes perfect sense. I pulled out the J4 SDB connector and J4 MPU connector and put row of stake header pins in each to mimic them plugged into their respective PCBs, then checked continuity using the underside of the stake headers. Sure enough, the PB3 line was open. I pulled the PB3 wire from each of the connector housings and checked continuity pin to pin directly - worked. I then took a closer look at the pins and the one that was in the SDB connector housing looked goofy/crushed (see pic below)...that's why there was no continuity when the connector housing was plugged into the test stakes or the PCB. I must've crimped the end part when I repinned that wire originally.

I repinned that one end again, put everything back, and bingo. The 10K Chime won't fire, but all of the other coils now work! Started a game and I've got a few stuck switches to figure out (plus the 10K Chime) but this is a great leap forward.

Thanx again, gents.
Kris

PB3 Pin.jpg

#5 5 years ago

KVW

Mathazar

Pinside+ Addict

Quench - do you mind if I hit you up with another noobie question on my next issue in this Mata Hari? The 1K Chime solenoid isn't firing (I said 10K earlier but it's the 1K). The solenoid itself is a bit toasty on the wrapper. The plunger moves freely, not frozen. I'm getting ~45VDC on both lugs of each of the chimes except the 1K. On the 1K chime solenoid, I'm getting ~45VDC on one lug and 1.5VDC on the other lug. I traced the 1K chime wire from the lug back to J2-11 on the SDB and it's good in and out of the J2 connector housing.

Replace coil? Could a bad diode cause this (I have a roll of spare diodes but I'd need to order some solenoids)?

Thanx,
Kris

Chime Coils MH1.jpg

#6 5 years ago

KID

pinkid

Pinside member

10y 48,650 1,479

That bottom coil is toasted and should be replaced.

#7 5 years ago

TPR

frunch

Pinside member

Point Pleasant, NJ

11y 135K 3,642 10

Agreed, looks like a fried coil. That would explain why you had 45v in but no 45v out from the coil. You can check the coil for resistance/ohms with your DMM and compare the readings with the other 2 coils next to it. I would also check the transistor that controls that coil. It may have locked on, causing the coil to burn up. Coils don't usually do that spontaneously, something likely caused that.

#8 5 years ago

KVW

Mathazar

Pinside+ Addict

http://www.pbresource.com/coilbly.html

Thanx, guys. CN-31-2000 is hard to find today (out of stock at Marcos, BAM, and Action Pinball. Game Room Guys will graciously sell ONE for $22 plus shipping. I found one from The Pinball Wizard for $11 plus $9 priority shipping - I just ordered it.

Hoping I didn't blow the SDB transistor - it's a brand new Alltek. I'll put in the new coil next weekend and cross the transistor bridge if I have to then. The coil was toasty looking before I started working on this project, so I'm hoping if it did take out the transistor it took out the one on the original SDB that I pulled (I put in Allteks for the MPU, SDB, and Lamp board to get the game up and running and at some point I'll send the original board set in for repairs/bullet proofing).

#9 5 years ago

???

Joydivision

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 69,550 654 11

OP
Quoted from Mathazar:
Thanx, guys. CN-31-2000 is hard to find today

For future reference, the Pinball Resource appear to have this coil for $10.00 each.

#10 5 years ago

KVW

Mathazar

Pinside+ Addict

New coil arrived today a day earlier than expected - put it in, all solenoids now work ok. No issue with the SDB. Thanx all for your assistance...this is such a great resource for newbies teaching themselves how to fix/maintain this stuff!

New Chime Coil in MH1 (resized).jpg

2 years later

#11 3 years ago

???

IN-DEEP

Pinside+ Frequent

Heathsville, VA

7y 32,650 65

Hello QUENCH! Thanks for your info.My Mata Hari was driving me crazy.The chimes didn"t work and the knocker was taking their place.Just maddening.your post solved my problem.I hope you get this.I know the topic is old but still very helpful.Thanks Jim

#12 3 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

8y 114K 8,035

Quoted from IN-DEEP:
Hello QUENCH! Thanks for your info.My Mata Hari was driving me crazy.The chimes didn"t work and the knocker was taking their place.Just maddening.your post solved my problem.I hope you get this.

Glad to hear it helped!

#13 3 years ago

NIK

Nikrox2

Pinside+ Addict

Quoted from Quench:
Glad to hear it helped!

Can you help another brother out? Lol. Been having weird issues in my MH.

My 10k (or extra chime ) is stuck on. Continuously. It first burnt Q7 on my driver board. Had it repaired and my mpu board checked out. Nothing wrong on it

Checked all playfield switches. Nothing seems stuck.

When I had the burnt Q7 I also removed and replaced the actual Chime coil - the sleeve was melted and the rod wouldn’t move. Now moves freely but as soon as power is turned on it fires

Is this a connector issue?

#14 3 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

8y 114K 8,035

Quoted from Nikrox2:
Is this a connector issue?

Afraid not.
Let's check the driver circuitry for that 10k chime.

Disconnect J2 from the solenoid driver board, that will disconnect the chimes for now so they don't lock on.
Grab your multi-meter and set it to DC voltage (20V if it's not auto-ranging).
Hook up the black meter lead to ground.
Power up.
Measure the voltage with the red meter lead on the solenoid driver board at:
a) The banded leg of diode CR7 = (should be about 0 volts)
b) The non-banded leg of diode CR7 = (should be about 0.3 volts)
c) Pin 10 of U1 = (should be about 0.85 volts)
d) Pin 9 of U1 = (should be about 0.3 volts)

Report the voltages.
Oh, please post a picture of the 10k chime coil showing how it's wired plus the orientation of the diode on the coil.

#15 3 years ago

NIK

Nikrox2

Pinside+ Addict

Hey thanks! Can’t get to it until mid week. It I’ll report my readings and some photos ASAP.

1 week later

#16 3 years ago

NIK

Nikrox2

Pinside+ Addict

Ok - got my boards back - the CPU was fine , no issues. On both of my SDB’s (I had one as a spare) the Q7 was blown. All fixed.

I put one SDB and the CPU back in- and chime coil is no longer continuously firing. Actually working / sounding correctly.

I can still get some meter readings if needed but thought I’d ask- what could have caused both SDB’s to fail on the same transistor.

Note - when I first started looking - that extra chime coil was toast. Sleeve melted inside. So did a bad coil burn up the boards? Or vice versa?

#17 3 years ago

KVW

Mathazar

Pinside+ Addict

Likely both...bad transistor fried the coil, then on the second board the fried coil took out the transistor.

#18 3 years ago

NIK

Nikrox2

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