(Topic ID: 218319)

Mata Hari: Another Bally drop target brick problem


By phillyfan64

11 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by phillyfan64
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 11 months ago

I know this has been brought many times but is there a definitive fix for this issue? The left bank of drop targets will occasionally brick if hit dead on real hard. What’s interesting is the right side never bricks. I replaced the springs, and tried adding a little wax on the metal ledge that they rest on. I also tried adjusting the leaf switches. They are not original drop targets. They are aftermarket.

#2 11 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I know this has been brought many times but is there a definitive fix for this issue? The left bank of drop targets will occasionally brick if hit dead on real hard. What’s interesting is the right side never bricks. I replaced the springs, and tried adding a little wax on the metal ledge that they rest on. I also tried adjusting the leaf switches. They are not original drop targets. They are aftermarket.

Have you taken the assembly completely apart and just did a good cleaning? Before I replaced my targets I took the assemblies off and completely torn them down along with the resetting arm that hooks up to the coils and even the coils sleeves and wet sanded all the metal with 400 and 600 grit and then waxed it all with carnauba. Drops and resets as smooth as butter now. Not exactly a mechanical fix but it helped mine out.

#3 11 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Have you taken the assembly completely apart and just did a good cleaning? Before I replaced my targets I took the assemblies off and completely torn them down along with the resetting arm that hooks up to the coils and even the coils sleeves and wet sanded all the metal with 400 and 600 grit and then waxed it all with carnauba. Drops and resets as smooth as butter now. Not exactly a mechanical fix but it helped mine out.

I have not done that but thanks for the tips. I will give it a shot. I just rebuilt the flippers. Game is playing great except for this nagging problem.

#4 11 months ago

in most cases this kind of problem is typically caused by the rubber ring located behind the targets

#5 11 months ago
Quoted from creepykenny:

in most cases this kind of problem is typically caused by the rubber ring located behind the targets

Too thick? I know some people have tried a smaller size to stretch the rubber thinner. What I can't understand is that it never happens on the right side targets.

#6 11 months ago

either too thick or stretched with tension on opposite side of targets making the target side of the rubber looser than it should be causing the targets to rebound off the rubber when hit and not actually drop

#7 11 months ago
Quoted from creepykenny:

either too thick or stretched with tension on opposite side of targets making the target side of the rubber looser than it should be causing the targets to rebound off the rubber when hit and not actually drop

That makes sense. If you take a close look at these pictures, you can see that the left side drop targets are a tiny bit closer to the top of the cutout in the playfield. The right side is more centered top to bottom. Which mean the left side is actually a hair closer to the rubber than the right side. That may explain why the right side never bricks. It's got a tiny bit more room and may not hit the rubber. There's no real wiggle room under the playfield to adjust the assembly. At least nothing that I can see. I had the whole assembly apart today to clean and wax it. It still bricked a couple times but maybe not as often.

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#8 11 months ago

You can mess with the strength of the drop target springs too. Make them looser. But too loose and they might drop right away upon reset.

#9 11 months ago

So it looks like the target is hitting the wood of the playfield then, and not the rubber....
It looks like if you were to hold the target up and push it back the back of the target wouldn’t touch the rubber but the way the fixture was screwed in to the wood on the under side was to close to the back on the left. Is that what you are saying or seeing?

#10 11 months ago

I wonder if you could take the assembly off and either file back the wood of the playfield, or shave it back with a dremel or jigsaw. Maybe use the black line behind the targets as a guide.

That’s a major surgery though :/

#11 11 months ago

It could be the wood. Hard to say for sure. I’ll try to do some more testing. I think what I can do is take the rubber off and try a rubber band to see what happens. I hate to take it all out again. I just had it all apart. What a pain. It would be major surgery to mess with the wood. I don’t really want to do that.

#12 11 months ago

You could also try loosening the screws on the drop target bank and see if you can slide it to make more clearance from the wood.

#13 11 months ago
Quoted from pinwiz_pa:

You could also try loosening the screws on the drop target bank and see if you can slide it to make more clearance from the wood.

i found some machines have a lot of playfield screws on bottom playfield are loose . from the picture looks that might be your problem

Denis

#14 11 months ago

if that's the case go over every bracket that has a coil . that will help game play

#15 11 months ago

This is a common problem. When I worked in the lab at Bally we actually purchased a crude Polaroid Polavision 8mm camera system to study the problem. Under super slow-mo we discovered the target would bend backwards into the rubber and bounce back into position before the spring could pull it down.

The fix is to use thinner rubber behind the target and/or double up on or use stronger springs.

Or go with what the game design team did back then, change your slogan to, 'That's not a bug, it's a feature!'

#16 11 months ago

Thanks for the info guys. I just had the entire assembly out yesterday. When I put it back I had a different problem with the targets not staying up when reset. I’ve had that issue before so I knew what to do there. I had to adjust the lever that raises the targets into place. That part is working ok now. Anyway the screws were and are tight. There’s no real play in trying to shift the assembly. Not unless I enlarge the holes which I don’t want to do.

That’s pretty cool that you looked at the issue under slow mo. I can try to double up the springs or maybe use a smaller size rubber ring. I think it calls for 2 1/2”.

#17 11 months ago

You can try this yourself. Film it. My Samsung device has a setting for save at at 1/2 or 1/4x speed. Helps solve these problems.

mof

#18 11 months ago

from your pictures above, to me it looks like you have the incorrect style of drop targets installed - those appear to be the "hooded" type (which are for in-line drop targets where the ball has to roll over the target when its in the down position) when you really just need to use the "tombstone" style which are skinnier/thinner and will fix you right up!

and for all others with similar problems ..... one thing of note when replacing original drop targets with new ones is that many times the new ones have a slight curve to them where the originals were completely straight, they should be straight / flat

if yours are curved they can be straightened by heating and bending them - i have done this by dipping the curved ones in boiling water bend straight & drop in cold water

not saying this is your problem (you have wrong style of drop installed), just saying i have seen it in almost every instance of new target replacement

for all others to trouble shoot this problem you would pull the rubber rings behind the targets off and see if your drops fall correctly, if not, then loosen the drop assembly and see if it will slide forward and try again

#19 11 months ago

I think all drop targets were changed over to the 'hooded' variety by the time EBD came out.

#20 11 months ago

when I get my PF reassembled after clear coating, if this happens to me I think what I will do is drill out the holes in the drop target assembly where the screws attach it to the playfield to make the holes slightly longer (oblong). This will allow the assembly to slide back and forth on the screw and then pull the assembly slightly forward to give more clearance in the back. Other than that, it sounds like you would have to find a way to alter the wood of the playfield which would be a nightmare, or shave down the targets to make them skinnier, or put on a different style of rubber.

#21 11 months ago

There are very few target styles anymore that are available as true tombstones.... Red Bullseyes & maybe a few others.... I know I just got Stern blue S's for my Trident drop targets & all I could find was the hooded style... I don't like them, but that's what most manufacturers have gone to...

#22 11 months ago

Yes they are the wrong style drop targets. The reason I never changed them to the correct style is because these have custom stickers on them. There's no real room to slide it forward. I tried. I wish I had thought to elongate the metal holes when I had the assembly out the other day.

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2 weeks later
#23 11 months ago

You could try filing the backside of the drop target near the top.

2 weeks later
#24 10 months ago

I finally got back to this. I replaced the rubber and went to a size 2” instead of the spec 2 1/2”. That made a noticeable improvement but still not perfect. So I went ahead and purchased the original tombstone style drop targets and new springs from Pinball Resource. A combination of all these things appears to have solved the issue. I hated giving up my custom targets but the game works much better.

I’m trying to get the custom targets remade in the tombstone style. If I can’t I’ll stick with these new ones. Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

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