The trick is not to pay top dollar, or to work out a price based on condition. And to not be afraid to walk away if it's not actually a good deal.

I usually expect to throw at least $350-$500 at a game, not including LEDs.

You never get back what you put into a game. I usually just clean it and play it and don't invest any money if I can. I only invest in getting the machine working 100%. Cosmetics seems to help sell a game faster, but doesn't equate to that much more money from my limited experience.

I try to see the time we have with the game as part of that investment. If I lose money, but we've enjoyed the game for x number of years, we might get "our money's worth". I don't expect to always get back (or really to ever get back) the money that gets put into the game, but if it increases my enjoyment of the game while we have it....that's value to me.

The benefit of things like colordmd is that they do work with other games. I don't count that as a specific game investment. I can take it out and put it in another game or sell it.

Maybe this is all just me trying to justify the fact that we put too much into our games sometimes

I passed on a T3 recently because I knew I would wind up putting myself upside-down, money wise.

It was hard driving off with the back of my truck empty.

How is this one of the "hardest things to do?"

It's the easiest of the advanced skills. You literally do nothing. A little bit of practice is all it takes.

It's also easy from a collector standpoint. Buy a game for less than you know you can sell it for. Don't buy games that you know you can't flip for a profit.

Congrats! You've mastered it.

I haven't been in the hobby long enough to know how it would be after several years of turning over a collection, but after about 3 years I've looked at it as a hobby where anything I do to a game, including shopping it and improving it, is part of the fun I get to have with it. In some ways I hardly look at them as retaining any kind of value, and that aspect just comes into play as an added bonus if I need/want to sell or trade.

Sure, breaking even or making money when selling would be great, but if it's all about return on my investment, I don't think it would be as fun.

I'll take a "loss" to get something else I want. For example, I've traded 2 games for 1 before. I know the value I traded was a little greater than what I was getting, but it was a game I wanted far more than the 2 combined and the trade was convenient, so I did it.

I guess it would all come down to whether or not you're ok leaving a game in unrestored condition while it's in your possession. I know I have games in various conditions with the thought that I'll eventually get around to restoring them, but I play them in the meantime and they're still potential trade or sale fodder if something else comes up.

At the end of the day, probably the best policy is to make sure you're having fun. It's a hobby, after all.

I think the dead flip is a tough skill. It's very hard for me to not hit the flippers anytime the ball comes hear them. When I do resist the urge to hit the flipper button, sometimes I misjudge and the ball rolls down the flipper and drains. So frustrating.

I think a good policy is only invest in improving a game if you plan on keeping it. I have yet to implement this policy.

I go into every purchase with the plan to keep a game forever! I don't need space to walk around in my basement...

Same here. I know I'm not going to get full value out of any of my games in parts alone, let alone hundreds of hours of labor. I think I'm around $1800 into my Breakshot, anyone want to give me $1800 for a Breakshot?

I just justify it by thinking I'm doing my small part to keep pinball alive. Rescue the "players condition games" from their life of cracked plastics, broken welds, and ugly LEDs!

If I buy color dmd, shaker and sub, I get that back on resell price. If buyer don't want to pay for the upgrades, they can be removed very easily as the original parts are kept.

The way I teach people to "dead flip" is the way it was taught to me by Zach Sharpe.
Play 1-handed.
You have NO CHOICE but to read the ball earlier and trust it to go where you think it's gonna go.
Obviously do this on a free-play machine so you aren't throwing your money away.
I swear to you it works. Ask anyone I've instructed.
Best of luck!!!

The minute I buy a pin I know its going to be hard to break even. I tend to go overboard on my pins, and usually the first thing I do is tear it down and replace anything not up to snuff, which means replacing decals, plastics, etc. Then comes the leds, mods etc. I for one do it for the love of he hobby, so I know i am not going to come out ahead unless I am really lucky, which unfortunately I have not been. I figure losing a couple hundred bucks is worth it to have the game sitting there for whenever I want to play it, then a year or so later, rinse and repeat.

Agreed, I will also add, most collectors that have been in the hobby more than 10 years will pay more for a game that has all of the above done. Some people want to save the $200 and buy the game with a cracked ramp and a broken plastic, just to spend $450 more on the game getting it up to snuff. No savings there.

I joined the hobby too late. I hope to break even at best or maybe only loose $100-200. I just assume that is the cost to play.
I don't move/trade many machines. So far I have sold 2. One I made about $300, if you don't include my labor. The other machine, I sold at a loss of $70 about 6 months later.

Even buying the overseas shipping container machines. Does not seems to be a huge margin, considering the risk.

How about the "NO FLIP" Haven't sold a pin since around 2006.
Or how about buying a pin to play, have fun, or just for the sake of restoring because you want to, it's a passion or you take pride in bring a game back to life.
Come on you guys are killing me! I keep seeing more and more posts about newer people in the hobby worrying about not making money if they buy this pin or that pin. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with flipping a pin. We all do it. Some of us are hobbyist or collectors or operators or career flippers just buying to make a buck. You need to decide what one you are. Seriously I can't think of anything else I would buy, use then expect to make more money off it.
Most of you will go from the hobbyist to flipper to collector. Been there done that. (I've been in the hobby since 1999)
I made money and I've lost money. I have pins that hold 0 dollar value to me because I will be dead when my wife sells them.
If you are worried about making money, buy a project pin. Repair it, shop it and sell it without any mods.
If you are going with mods and bling, you probably are not gong to get all your money back. They are your toys, your taste.

If it's players condition just play the crap out of it and leave it as is. Why make it a $3,600 game?

My Centaur certainly isn't a looker in its current state but I'm really having a blast playing it!

Why the hell does everybody feel like they have to make money or break even in this hobby? How many other hobbies are like this? Play the damn thing and have fun!!

In regards to the playing technique, playing one handed is the way to go. I agree 100% with our appropriately name comrade!

Exactly!

More than you would think. Pretty much any hobby that includes items with a collector's value. Cars, fishing lures, hunting decoys, train sets, etc.

Here's a good example for your dead flip. I have 3 Silverball Mania's I've paid pretty much the same for each one.
2nd and 3rd game I think are what you are talking about.
1st game) I want to do a complete high end restoration. Repainting cab, Have the PF sent out for touch ups and clear. New this and new that. Once I'm done if I sell it I will probably lose money on it. I'm doing this for MEEEE not anyone else so don't give a shit. I do not plan on selling it.
2nd game) I will repair, clean, shop the playfield and sell it as a pinball machine. I will probably make about $200 off this once I deduct parts and price of game. I'll probably have about 20 to 40 hours into the game.
3rd game) Will probably be sold as a project game since the playfield is trashed. I only bought it because it had a minty fresh backglass. I'm using that on my 1st game. I'm probably going to break even on this but I got the glass.

Are you going to sell the Fathom? If not why worry about what you have in to it. I know once my silverball is done it would be worth half of what a Fathom is worth but it's one of those games I really want to look showroom new.

I enjoy playing more than restoring so the "dead flip" comes naturally. I try to buy games that meet my cosmetic standards (much lower than "collector quality") so that I only have to do basic cleaning and maintenance, get them playing well, then enjoy.

I mostly keep them stock except for the ones that prove to be long term keepers. These I may add a little extra to or try to find another that is in primo condition.

You should see my Skateball. Barn find. Picked it up with a Bally Playboy and Spy Hunter. They really, really need help. But at $50 each couldn't pass.

Just find some keepers that you really enjoy the gameplay and theme together in one package, for me it's my Star Trek next-generation and Terminator two Then mod the shit out of them! The other games just keep them fixed and sell them when you're tired of them it's hard to remake all the money back, once to have a collection going loosing a couple hundred on a game wont be noticeable. Cheers!