AC/DC (LE)
Stern, 2012
AC/DC (Premium)
Stern, 2012
AC/DC (Pro)
Stern, 2012Quoted from markmon:Will be better mids and highs. The volume will not be more as the cheap stern speakers are more efficient.
That'll work for me. I did the Pyle speaker upgrade on my WCS94 and wasn't too impressed with the sound improvement, but will definitely try the Clarions with ACDC.
Quoted from Nibbles:That'll work for me. I did the Pyle speaker upgrade on my WCS94 and wasn't too impressed with the sound improvement, but will definitely try the Clarions with ACDC.
On your wcs, there really aren't a lot of highs. So a tweeter less design is ok there. Did you use a 5" on the left and a 3" on the right?
I ended up doing two 5-1/4" Coax Speakers (cut new speaker hole on the right) with an L-Pad. Sound was clearer, but for the effort it just left a lot to be be desired.
Quoted from Nibbles:I ended up doing two 5-1/4" Coax Speakers (cut new speaker hole on the right) with an L-Pad. Sound was clearer, but for the effort it just left a lot to be be desired.
Yea you know I think you can buy a set of 5 1/4" and a set of 3.5" and do two machines with these on Williams without much difference. It might be better to get a 5 1/4" separate on the left and a 3.5" coax on the right. I really haven't played with this enough.
Wcs sounds are sort of crappy though. The wpc95 games come alive with the speaker upgrades. Afm, mb, mm, ngg, Congo.
Quoted from BShing:Has anyone used an amp with the front speakers?
Yes. To my ears, there wasn't any real improvement in sound and wasn't worth the hassle. As a matter of fact, the volume of the back box speakers was slightly lower running them through the amplifier.
Quoted from markmon:Comparisons:
...Pinball Pro or FF kit: They haven't come out with anything yet, but I can't see how it would be better.
Since these kits have been out for a while now, wondering if anyone has actually listened to one of them vs Markmon's and reached an opinion of how the sound compares?
No comparison in price of course since Markmon's mod is half the cost--just curious how they ended up sounding by comparison.
Quoted from NM:Since these kits have been out for a while now, wondering if anyone has actually listened to one of them vs Markmon's and reached an opinion of how the sound compares?
No comparison in price of course since Markmon's mod is half the cost--just curious how they ended up sounding by comparison.
I did purchase the kit from pinball pro and then added Markmon's suggestion. The dial on the lpad is wide open and I use the gain on my subwoofer amp to tone down "the thunder" The coax speakers were a nice improvement but the addition of the subwoofer amp was amazing.
Quoted from NM:Generally speaking, would this amp/backbox mod work on any Stern SAM or Whitestar game?
What about on WPCs?
If so, 8" or 12" on the subs?
I'm pretty sure I already have details on this earlier in this thread. But you really don't need an extra amp with the 8" speakers. But if you went 12" you could do the same. The internal 8" that ship from stern suck bad and really need to be replaced. A stern build-your-own sub kit will need to have a new 8", an inductor for crossover maybe 5mH or so, and some resistors / lpad to quiet the backbox providing more bass.
Quoted from markmon:I'm pretty sure I already have details on this earlier in this thread. But you really don't need an extra amp with the 8" speakers. But if you went 12" you could do the same. The internal 8" that ship from stern suck bad and really need to be replaced. A stern build-your-own sub kit will need to have a new 8", an inductor for crossover maybe 5mH or so, and some resistors / lpad to quiet the backbox providing more bass.
Your instructions & links are so easy to follow on your ADCD PREM/LE mod that I think I'll just use that formula for all my games from here on out.
I was going to add a FF kit on my AFM, but I'm really diggin' the idea of the Dayton Audio 70W amp, the Clarion Coaxials, and a 12" sub...should be quite an effect on the explosions!
Thanks for this thread.
Quoted from VegasAlleycat:Markmon, other than the obvious (perhaps unnecessary?) increase in cost, is there any reason your amp solution couldn't be added to Flipper Fidelity's AC/DC LE upgrade kit?
Quoted from markmon:The flipper fidelity kit replaces the existing sub with a new one that is more efficient and. Tossed over. You can add amp to that and it will definitely improve. But it probably wont be any better then if you had added the amp to the stock speaker. The amps crossover will make the passive inductor on the flipper fidelity sub obsolete. And the added power from the amp will drive either speaker just fine. The internal 12" sub stern ships is actually ok when given some power. Bottom line: you'll still gain. But you may as well yank the flipper fidelity sub out, put your old one back in and sell the FF sub. Try it both ways and see.
Anyone tried this yet?
Quoted from markmon:Installation: ...
2) Remove the yellow and white speaker wires from the 12" positive and put it on "High input" or "from amp" red on left speaker input on the amp.
3) Remove the yellow and black speaker wires from the 12" negative terminal and put it on "high input" or "from amp" black on left speaker input on the amp.
Need some clarification please: instructions above state to remove both sets of wires but then to put "it" on the amp (singular inference).
My Dayton 70W amp from Parts Express has four ports on "FROM AMPLIFIER": L+, L-, R-, R+.
Do I have this right: put both yellow/white wires on the L+ (red) port on "FROM AMPLIFIER" and then put both yellow/black wires on L- (black) on "FROM AMPLIFIER"?
Thanks in advance.
Quoted from markmon:Installation: ...
2) Remove the yellow and white speaker wires from the 12" positive and put it on "High input" or "from amp" red on left speaker input on the amp.
3) Remove the yellow and black speaker wires from the 12" negative terminal and put it on "high input" or "from amp" black on left speaker input on the amp.
Quoted from NM:Need some clarification please: instructions above state to remove both sets of wires but then to put "it" on the amp (singular inference).
My Dayton 70W amp from Parts Express has four ports on "FROM AMPLIFIER": L+, L-, R-, R+.
Do I have this right: put both yellow/white wires on the L+ (red) port on "FROM AMPLIFIER" and then put both yellow/black wires on L- (black) on "FROM AMPLIFIER"?
Thanks in advance.
Anyone?
Quoted from NM:Need some clarification please: instructions above state to remove both sets of wires but then to put "it" on the amp (singular inference).
My Dayton 70W amp from Parts Express has four ports on "FROM AMPLIFIER": L+, L-, R-, R+.
Do I have this right: put both yellow/white wires on the L+ (red) port on "FROM AMPLIFIER" and then put both yellow/black wires on L- (black) on "FROM AMPLIFIER"?
Thanks in advance.
That's right. Treat the two wires as one
Quoted from NM:Your instructions & links are so easy to follow on your ADCD PREM/LE mod that I think I'll just use that formula for all my games from here on out.
I was going to add a FF kit on my AFM, but I'm really diggin' the idea of the Dayton Audio 70W amp, the Clarion Coaxials, and a 12" sub...should be quite an effect on the explosions!
Thanks for this thread.
It's be quite different on a Williams setup. And since its not a music pin the returns will be diminished. My advice is go with the flipper fidelity kit. Then spend the difference on a shaker motor.
Quick question: can somebody confirm their acdc prem 12" speaker wiring? Mine has yellow-white on the 12" negative terminal and yellow-black on the positive terminal. That is opposite what markmon states.
In the back box, yellow white is on J10pin4 and yellow black on J10 pin 3.
Thx
2) Remove the yellow and white speaker wires from the 12" positive and put it on "High input" or "from amp" red on left speaker input on the amp.
3) Remove the yellow and black speaker wires from the 12" negative terminal and put it on "high input" or "from amp" black on left speaker input on the amp.
4) Wire the red wire from the amp to the + terminal on the 12" speaker (where the yellow white was)
5) Wire the black wire from the amp to the - terminal on the 12" speaker (where the yellow black was).
Quoted from rad:Quick question: can somebody confirm their acdc prem 12" speaker wiring? Mine has yellow-white on the 12" negative terminal and yellow-black on the positive terminal. That is opposite what markmon states.
Exactly how mine is too...so we'll have to reverse the instructions to/from the amp.
Quoted from PinAddict-JWC:Does anyone's amp stay warm when the Power is set to "Auto", and the game is off? Mine ALWAYS stays warm. This is the amp I bought:
$60 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-784
After one game the amp gets REALLY hot.
Mine stays unusually warm in the "Auto" position, too.
Potential hazard?
I noted there are no ventilation holes--essentially, it's a sealed plastic box...no wonder it stays warm.
Some possible solutions: drilling vent holes; or simply removing the bottom half of the two-piece case (the bottom resembles a coin-box & the top part just drops in); or spacers between the two.
Quoted from NM:VegasAlleycat said:
Markmon, other than the obvious (perhaps unnecessary?) increase in cost, is there any reason your amp solution couldn't be added to Flipper Fidelity's AC/DC LE upgrade kit?markmon said:
The flipper fidelity kit replaces the existing sub with a new one that is more efficient and. Tossed over. You can add amp to that and it will definitely improve. But it probably wont be any better then if you had added the amp to the stock speaker. The amps crossover will make the passive inductor on the flipper fidelity sub obsolete. And the added power from the amp will drive either speaker just fine. The internal 12" sub stern ships is actually ok when given some power. Bottom line: you'll still gain. But you may as well yank the flipper fidelity sub out, put your old one back in and sell the FF sub. Try it both ways and see.Anyone tried this yet?
I have the FF kit installed but haven't tried adding an amp yet. I'd also be interested to hear if anyone has tried it though and what the results were.
This is a dumbass request, but can someone snap a pic of how they mounted their Clarion's in the backbox? I'm being lazy, and don't want to make a full circular wood spacer to accommodate the tweeter sticking out; but after reading through this, is everyone just installing the backbox speaks with an air gap between the speaker rim and the wood of the backpanel? Or are you filling this in with a 1/2" rubber gasket?
I made some spacers out of PVC piping which was quick and easy and works great. I can take some pictures if needed, but all I did was cut about 3/4" pieces of 4" PVC pipe.
Thanks Mauikiter, I thought of going with the PVC, but didn't have time to run to the hardware store so was doing the typical scrounging of shat that I have in my house for something that would work. I actually just ended up using the speaker caps and some sticky beer foam tape - turned out great and maybe took 10min of fitting.
However, now that I both the amp and backbox speakers done, I have an annoying rattle (from what seems like the glass)... 
Was hoping to avoid it, but tomorrows project is going to be electrical tape on the glass edges. Just too much baaaaaasssssssssss!
Great write-up and addition to the game Markmon!
What is everyone doing anything to secure down the amp in the coinbox slot? Not too sure the shaker motor will agree with the amp if the amp is just bouncing around in the cabinet over time.
I was thinking of using the sticky sided foam tape on the bottom of the amp to absorb most of the vibrations, but just wanted to see what everyone else was doing first since I'm sure there's a better solution 
Great information. I'll be doing some of these mods to my AC/DC Premium when I get it next week.
Thanks!!
Quoted from NM:Mine stays unusually warm in the "Auto" position, too.
Potential hazard?
I noted there are no ventilation holes--essentially, it's a sealed plastic box...no wonder it stays warm.
Some possible solutions: drilling vent holes; or simply removing the bottom half of the two-piece case (the bottom resembles a coin-box & the top part just drops in); or spacers between the two.
Mine did also so I wired my accessory outlet to turn on and off with the game. Problem solved
How to wire it is in this post
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/project-tron-pro/page/4
With the original speakers I was getting some bad distortion.
I installed the clarion speakers from the amazon link and it is MUCH better. However these still do have distortion. I dont want to install an amp for these, any other ideas? (other then turn it down)
Its loud where the game is so I need to run this at 60 or higher.
Quoted from BK2K:With the original speakers I was getting some bad distortion.
I installed the clarion speakers from the amazon link and it is MUCH better. However these still do have distortion. I dont want to install an amp for these, any other ideas? (other then turn it down)
Its loud where the game is so I need to run this at 60 or higher.
I too am having the same experience. I purchased the clarion speakers + better amp as the OP, and am running at 50 volume and 50/50 on the amp. With those settings, the bass is great - but the vocals are flat and muddy.....to the point that you can't even hear them on some of the tracks. When you disconnect the amp and run the stock Sub + Clarions, the vocals return to normal. Any thoughts to whats wrong?
Also, would it be better to run the input into the low level signal inputs with these? Would it help with the mids? http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-RFI2SW-Speaker-Adapter/dp/B009B8EJYU/ref=sr_1_1
I am getting a Metallica. But I suspect it'll have a normal 8".
Quoted from BK2K:With the original speakers I was getting some bad distortion.
I installed the clarion speakers from the amazon link and it is MUCH better. However these still do have distortion. I dont want to install an amp for these, any other ideas? (other then turn it down)
Its loud where the game is so I need to run this at 60 or higher.
60 is too high. You can't run amps full volume without getting some distortion. You have simply reached the limitation of the internal pinball amp. At 60 this things must be amazingly loud. Mine is crazy loud at 52.
I run mine between 45 and 55. I used the amp that was suggested on the first page. I get a slight amount of random feedback when it's in attract mode. I'm not sure why, exactly. I still haven't installed the Clarion's (probably this weekend), but I doubt that would be causing the issue.
Markmon,
Would getting a good 4 ohm sub speaker help the sound, since Stern's amps runs at 4 ohms? I thought instead of getting any sub stuff, I would try both an upgraded 4 ohm speaker as well as some good 4 ohm backbox speakers. Before I get AC/DC, I wanted to have the sound stuff sorted out. I am a musician so I want a good even sound, but am not really versed in speaker technology. I don't really want bass rattling the glass or anything, just a good sound.
Let me know if this would work.
Thanks!
A 4 ohm speaker will increase the amps wattage. But depending on the speaker may not increase the over all sound. The efficiency of the speaker comes into play. A 4 ohm speaker that is 3 db less efficient will probably perform worse. The amp onboard just isn't good enough to drive a 12" well. Plus the speaker system needs to be crossed over to sound right. Listen to the set up stock. It doesn't provide much bass due to under driving the 12" but it does provide decent midrange. You may like it.
Quoted from lowepg:Markmon,
Read through this thread and quickly realized you've probably forgotten more about pinball speaker systems than many people will hope to learn...
Ever thought about building a few "kits" for sale?
I do all my own kits. But they aren't as easy as say a flipper fidelity kit. While I could come in cheaper with a pinball kit, it wouldn't be a lot cheaper and the end install for speaker replacements might be less clean and harder for average person. At this point I'd rather pass on the knowledge.
Quoted from markmon:I do all my own kits. But they aren't as easy as say a flipper fidelity kit. Whole I could come in cheaper with a pinball kit, it wouldn't be a lot cheaper and the end install for speaker replacements might be less clean and harder for average person. At this point I'd rather pass on the knowledge.
Fair enough, thanks for all the insight! I feel like Ive taken a "pinball sound 101" course reading your posts.
Quoted from markmon:I am getting a Metallica. But I suspect it'll have a normal 8".
60 is too high. You can't run amps full volume without getting some distortion. You have simply reached the limitation of the internal pinball amp. At 60 this things must be amazingly loud. Mine is crazy loud at 52.
So then you are saying, yes another amp is the only way?
I'm getting some interference or something since installing the amp. In attract mode it will occasionally make a popping sound.. Anyone have any suggestions on what to check? Ground possibly?
Just received both the 100w dayton audio plate amp and the 10" Polk external. I will be doing a little experimenting over the next week with several different solutions and will report afterwards. Thanks for all the suggestions and re-education Markmon.
Quoted from markmon:I am getting a Metallica. But I suspect it'll have a normal 8".
So for Sterns with an 8" (I assume they are all more or less the same, right?), what is the best plan of action to improve the sound? Clarions in the back box + is it even worth messing with the bass? More efficient sub with better amp? Drop in a 12? ( can you do that without major surgery?)
Man...how cool would it be if Metallica showed up as a stereo pin? Maybe if we all think positive thoughts, we can make it happen.
Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:So for Sterns with an 8" (I assume they are all more or less the same, right?), what is the best plan of action to improve the sound? Clarions in the back box + is it even worth messing with the bass? More efficient sub with better amp? Drop in a 12? ( can you do that without major surgery?)
Man...how cool would it be if Metallica showed up as a stereo pin? Maybe if we all think positive thoughts, we can make it happen.
Sure. Clarions in the backbox and 8" speaker replace my with inductor crossover and a resistor / lpad to dampen the backbox. Basically what pinball pro or flipper fidelity would offer. Internal amp is plenty for these 8".
Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:One term there I'm not familiar with. What is an "lpad"?
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-l-pads/306. Most likely an inline 20 ohm resistor with back box clarions wired in series is a perfect vol level and dirt cheap.
Mark you mentioned 16-20 ohm resistors ??
Are you referring to these...
10w
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=004-16&scqty=1
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=004-20&scqty=1
1/2w
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=002-16
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=002-20
Quoted from asnatlas:Mark you mentioned 16-20 ohm resistors ??
Are you referring to these...
10w
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=004-16&scqty=1
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=004-20&scqty=1
1/2w
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=002-16
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=002-20
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=017-20
I know this thread is about speakers and upgrading them. We had Ac/Dc bib at the Allentown booth with a set of Dr Dre beats pro headphones. Adding a subwoofer fine I get that, I've already done it to the rear jack that comes built into jjp wizard of oz. no aftermarket speakers can hang with a good set of over ear headphones on acdc. Ask anyone who tried it at Allentown. U can make it 10 times louder in ur head, the factory amplifier is more then adequate on headphones. Just saying 
Thanks,
Lorenzo
Pinnovators.com
Quoted from lllvjr:I know this thread is about speakers and upgrading them. We had Ac/Dc bib at the Allentown booth with a set of Dr Dre beats pro headphones. Adding a subwoofer fine I get that, I've already done it to the rear jack that comes built into jjp wizard of oz. no aftermarket speakers can hang with a good set of over ear headphones on acdc. Ask anyone who tried it at Allentown. U can make it 10 times louder in ur head, the factory amplifier is more then adequate on headphones. Just saying
Thanks,
Lorenzo
Pinnovators.com
Kinda selfish though.
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