(Topic ID: 310526)

Manny10 and Lights Out Pinball. Taxi Upside The Head

By jkashani

2 years ago


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  • 310 posts
  • 70 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 19 days ago by spikelou2
  • Topic is favorited by 23 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

The following is an account of a sale between myself and Manuel Metsikas (Manny10 on pinside, owner/CEO of lights out pinball). I would preface this by saying that I was warned about about doing business with him, by multiple respectable people in the pinball community. However I really wanted a Taxi and they do not come up often, so against my better judgement, I pursued the game. The game was advertised as full LED’s and as upgraded rubber parts. I put a refundable deposit on the game and it was to be shipped by his shipper after I found it hard to work pickup into my schedule. First, I believe that he used his sellers pictures, prior to having the game in his possession. It was pictured with leg protectors but that did not accompany the game, for what that's worth. After many inquiries he provided a video of the game working the night prior to shipment. He tried to up the price of shipping by $50, I declined and he agreed to ship at the previously agreed price. The pin arrived with no keys, the wrong legs (31 inches instead of 28.5). He blamed this on his shipper, stating that he was new. I believe it to be the responsibility of the seller to make sure, as best as they can, that the appropriate accessories to the game are accounted for. A simple label of the legs, and keys with the game would suffice. Apparently, his shipper gave my legs and keys to a person he was doing a trade with. Again, a minor mistake. The game had dirty rubbers (maybe he upgraded them with dirt) and had a few led’s on the topside (horrible ones) but was otherwise all incandescents with only two in the backbox with the only the flashers and a few lights present. There were no other lights in the headbox. When I spoke with him about this, in somewhat of a heated exchange, he still insisted it was all led’s. He then said he would send me led’s and when I said he should come and put them in he said he would “break the pinball game over my head” He also continually said I am the type of person that is never satisfied. I simply wanted a game, as advertised. He owns and LED company and I would figure he would know the difference. My impression is that he really did not look over the game and sold in in a hurried fashion. He tried to make concessions, and offered a full price buyback but that still would have left my hung for the shipping costs. The video he provided at the end showed the headbox and only the incandescent flashers present. I don't think I can upload videos but I am happy to share with any interested people. Either way, lesson learned and I would say that with any pinball purchase the best transaction is an in person cash transaction and "lights out" really means lights out.

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#3 2 years ago

Lights out pinball shows 1hr20min away from your location. Any reason you didn't inspect an item from a seller you were warned about in times when pinball scams are rampant?

#4 2 years ago

2 kids, work, etc. Taking that time out of the day has become harder and harder. All I left was a deposit that I clearly tagged as refundable. The rest was a cash transaction.

Quoted from Neal_W:

Lights out pinball shows 1hr20min away from your location. Any reason you didn't inspect an item from a seller you were warned about in times when pinball scams are rampant?

#5 2 years ago

Almost 5K for a Taxi? Get your money back and come take mine with all Comets, a hardtop and a new ramp for 4700 out the door!

#6 2 years ago

I did not pay that price, we agreed on a price prior to him listing it.

Quoted from grantopia:

Almost 5K for a Taxi? Get your money back and come take mine with all Comets, a hardtop and a new ramp for 4700 out the door!

#7 2 years ago

Deleted

12
#8 2 years ago
Quoted from rvalkenburg:

Another quality sale from Lights Out Pinball... After bankruptcy and massive amount of bad press, people being warned over and over not to buy from Manny, yet people still do, truely amazing. This has been going on for years, why is this still happening?

At least the business name seems accurate...

#9 2 years ago

I've never bought a pin sight unseen in 37 years of owning them, and never will. Sorry this happened to you, but glad you posted about this person. I had not heard of his shenanigans.

#10 2 years ago

It really sucks how many dishonest people are in the hobby. It’s just quick bucks to them, especially the flippers. This post reminds me of a few in the northeast. Thanks for they post. I’ll certainly avoid this seller. I think you should get your money back if that’s still on the table, take the loss, and get a nicer game when it comes up. They really always do but I get the FOMO because I’ve been there done that.

#11 2 years ago

I bought a LZ premium from him and he picked up a GNR LE for me.

In my experience he does oversell a bit but I expected that when negotiating with him seeing how this is what he does for a living. Trading in pins to him is probably the way to go rather than buying outright

#12 2 years ago

Unless you really, really REALLY trust a seller, never buy a pin if you have not seen it and played it in person. It's as simple as that. Does it sometimes work out ok if you don't follow this simple advice? Of course. But more often it does not work out well at all. Live and learn.
BTW, his ads are all over CL and FB in the Phila area. I bet lots of people are convinced to buy his games for better or worse. I don't know him personally, but there are local rumblings that make me a little hesitant to do business, apart from the very high prices.

#13 2 years ago

By the looks of the pictures,at least the playfield looks nice.

#14 2 years ago

It is actually a very nice example other than being lightless....

Quoted from ralphs007:

By the looks of the pictures,at least the playfield looks nice.

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#15 2 years ago

How pathetic !
business owner downvoting an unhappy customer Instead of making the situation right!

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#16 2 years ago

Thanks for the warning John. I won't be doing any business with this guy that's for sure. Guys like him give guys like me and the other honest guys out there a bad name. Let me know if I can assist in getting that game up to the shape it should have been delivered and promised in.

#17 2 years ago

I have come to the conclusion that honesty and reputation is paramount in this hobby, and always try to go above and beyond pointing out even minor issues (see my ad) so that others can be aware of any potential issues. It would seem to me that others deliberately leave out information.
I bought 1 pinball from Manny10 and aborted another purchase after realizing who he was based off of my experience with the first purchase and his reluctance to answer questions about the machine. About 6 months into the Hobby I sold my lesser pins in order to buy 1 A+ pin, a Hobbit LE I scored for $6,500 (good deal even at the time). After going back and forth on condition and being assured it was “like new”, I drove 3 hours north to Philly to pick it up from his location next to TNT. (As an aside TNT amusements is great and Todd is awesome, highly recommended). When I got there, despite my request he had “conveniently” wrapped up the machine. Me being a relative noob, didn’t know any better but still asked it be set up for play testing. He didn’t want to put the legs on so we set it up on the floor where playability is hard to judge. I then brought it home where I discovered the dragon didn’t work like it was supposed to. In my (noob) attempt to get it fully working I broke it, and ended up dropping $600 on a new dragon. I believe if the machine was fully working as advertised he would have left it setup. I now always insist on play testing when selling, trading, or buying to make sure everyone is on the same page at the time of sale and only buy/sell/trade in person.

Years later, I was very close to going on a 6 hour round trip to pick up a South Park I found on Craigslist from him only to discover after pinning him down on questions that the game didn’t actually boot. It seems to me he was hoping I'd take a 6 hour round trip and take the game anyways after discovering it wouldn't work. Here is the email thread so you can judge for yourself.

To be fair, all of these actions could have been innocent and poor coincidences. There are two sides to every story and you are only hearing from one side. However, based off of the stories told by others as well as my experience, in the absence of information everything turns out to be worse than expected in his pins, I am steering clear for now.
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#18 2 years ago

OP buys a taxi pin and was literally taken for a ride. if you deal with lights out pinball you better wear a helmet

2 weeks later
#19 2 years ago

Seller is a scumbang scalper …

#20 2 years ago

Went back and forth with him … tried to tell I had no idea about quality or pricing …

#21 2 years ago

He told me he sells 2 games a day …even asked me to invest in his business

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from spikelou2:

He told me he sells 2 games a day …even asked me to invest in his business

If there is one thing that I have learned from crawling pinside for the last 4 years, it is that the pinball business is not a good investment. It's great for your own personal enjoyment, but it is a tough way to make money. Based off of the changing inventory he has on Craigslist I am inclined to believe the 2 games per day figure. If you were buying/selling used games to put bread on the table you would have to come close to those numbers.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

If there is one thing that I have learned from crawling pinside for the last 4 years, it is that the pinball business is not a good investment. It's great for your own personal enjoyment, but it is a tough way to make money. Based off of the changing inventory he has on Craigslist I am inclined to believe the 2 games per day figure. If you were buying/selling used games to put bread on the table you would have to come close to those numbers.

I’ve gota bridge to sell ya!

#24 2 years ago
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#25 2 years ago

The same old song!

#26 2 years ago

Huge Red Flag for me - this dude just got blasted, with receipts, and doesn't both to come on here and defend his honor. I guess I should put "honor" in rhetorical quotes. Thanks for sharing.

I have to get everything shipped to Alaska, but with enough research and the market history/ratings system, I have lucked out. Some people you can just tell are straight shooters, take care of their shit, and don't gouge. There are folks who literally put honor back in a handshake.

For example, I brought up a JP Premium from Jsiegelman near Tucson and it was everything he promised and more. We also have a couple local Alaskans that are also just in the hobby for the right reasons, y'know ... to help support their habit (like when we all sold weed back in the day).

These horror stories I read on here give me the creeps. Way too many quick buck artists. Ebay is getting worse - since pinball prices have gone way up, the douches like OCP have lots of douchey competition. Some are just too stupid for words - like the guy who wanted $50,000 for YBR WOZ (until he relisted it for $250,000 overnight). Others are trying to flip Rush LEs for $25,000 even though they're literally adjacent to another ad for the identical NIB game selling for $10,000 less. Gotta shake your head.

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from freddy:

I’ve gota bridge to sell ya!

Does it have flippers? Do you ship? Can I take it out of the box?

#28 2 years ago

When you arrive to find game wrapped and ready to go just leave!!!!! Some fucker in Northern NJ screwed me once like that. Giving scumbags the benefit of the doubt because you want to believe people are good is a mistake. It was TZ. I was sort of a noob at the time too. He lived in Mahwah, NJ. But it has been years. I can probably track down the info if anyone comes across a Mahwah pin and is skeptical.

#29 2 years ago

SantaEatsCheese Not related to this thread at all, but I just found your new avatar

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#30 2 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

sataneatscheese Not related to this thread at all, but I just found your new avatar[quoted image]

You know what? I've had that same avatar for almost 4 years. I kept the same avatar because I think it is important for people to be able to recognize you if you are actively buying and selling stuff online. I think this new one is more fitting and easier to remember than my old fish tank. It's an idiotic screen name I dumped in 4 years ago to look at a different pinball site for a few minutes. It's a little late to change the name though. Now atleast the avatar matches the screen name...

Thanks!

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

You know what? I've had that same avatar for almost 4 years. I kept the same avatar because I think it is important for people to be able to recognize you if you are actively buying and selling stuff online. I think this new one is more fitting and easier to remember than my old fish tank. It's an idiotic screen name I dumped in 4 years ago to look at a different pinball site for a few minutes. It's a little late to change the name though. Now atleast the avatar matches the screen name...
Thanks!

Love it!
Is this the new owner that bought all of the bulbs when Lights Out was selling the business? Or is this the original owner? I was told some strange stories and I’ve seen Lights Out LEDs at Allentown but was told that someone bought out the entire LED stock and was selling it.

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Love it!
Is this the new owner that bought all of the bulbs when Lights Out was selling the business? Or is this the original owner? I was told some strange stories and I’ve seen Lights Out LEDs at Allentown but was told that someone bought out the entire LED stock and was selling it.

Just to clarify I am not Manny, and am not associated with Lights Out Pinball in any way. I bought a pinball machine from them one time and aborted another purchase as described above.

Don't tar me with that brush.

When I went to th Allentoen show in 2019 the same I individual associated with Lights Out Pinball that I bought my machine from was running the LED booth. I did not see said individual at the 2021 show, but that does not prove anything.

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Just to clarify I am not Manny, and am not associated with Lights Out Pinball in any way. I bought a pinball machine from them one time and aborted another purchase as described above.
Don't tar me with that brush.
When I went to th Allentoen show in 2019 the same I individual associated with Lights Out Pinball that I bought my machine from was running the LED booth. I did not see said individual at the 2021 show, but that does not prove anything.

Obviously not, I wasn’t associating you with Manny/Light Out at all? I was asking you since you had email conversations, in no way did that suggest you and them are the same.
Thanks for clarifying the one running the booth is the same as the one running this company because I had heard different stories that didn’t make sense!

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Obviously not, I wasn’t associating you with Manny/Light Out at all? I was asking you since you had email conversations, in no way did that suggest you and them are the same.
Thanks for clarifying the one running the booth is the same as the one running this company because I had heard different stories that didn’t make sense!

Sorry for over reacting. My bad. To clarify the individual who sold me the Hobbit sold from the commercial address of Lihhts out Pinball and also ran the booth at the 2019 show.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

He lived in Mahwah, NJ. But it has been years. I can probably track down the info if anyone comes across a Mahwah pin and is skeptical.

Gary Valentine!

#36 2 years ago

Did anyone else just receive a PM about this thread? I would encourage those involved to defend themselves here instead of via direct messaging others that shared their experiences.

As an aside to my PM I can assure you that I am not a local dealer and have a small basement lineup that I rotate for the amusement of myself and my small family.

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Did anyone else just receive a PM about this thread? I would encourage those involved to defend themselves here instead of via direct messaging others that shared their experiences.
As an aside to my PM I can assure you that I am not a local dealer and have a small basement lineup that I rotate for the amusement of myself and my small family.

Desperate people take desperate measures !
Maybe They should just run their business honestly and respectfully and these situations would not happen.

#38 2 years ago

Bump! Where’s my PM?

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Did anyone else just receive a PM about this thread? I would encourage those involved to defend themselves here instead of via direct messaging others that shared their experiences.
As an aside to my PM I can assure you that I am not a local dealer and have a small basement lineup that I rotate for the amusement of myself and my small family.

Can you post the pm he sent you on this thread … dude is clearly off his rocker

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from jkashani:

Bump! Where’s my PM?

I want one too! A pm that is, not a taxi with missing bulbs.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Sorry for over reacting. My bad. To clarify the individual who sold me the Hobbit sold from the commercial address of Lihhts out Pinball and also ran the booth at the 2019 show.

Yeah let’s see the PM please

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Did anyone else just receive a PM about this thread? I would encourage those involved to defend themselves here instead of via direct messaging others that shared their experiences.
As an aside to my PM I can assure you that I am not a local dealer and have a small basement lineup that I rotate for the amusement of myself and my small family.

Quoted from jkashani:

Bump! Where’s my PM?

Quoted from spikelou2:

Can you post the pm he sent you on this thread … dude is clearly off his rocker

Quoted from mbl1116:

Yeah let’s see the PM please

By popular demand.

[image removed]

#44 2 years ago

Yo homies check this out. He tried to upcharge me $50 on the shipping. Where did the $100 shipping come from?

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#45 2 years ago

Just have cash ok
Lol

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

By popular demand.[quoted image]

Last time I posted a PM of someone sending me crazy shit to warn others I got moderated immediately...just a heads up you may want to take it down...

#47 2 years ago

First, I am fine with someone posting my Pm, in case that saves somebody from being moderated. I did not want to add fuel to the fire, so I did not respond to the post. Since people are saying negative things about me without knowing me, and taking my having no desire to badmouth anyone else, or say anything negative at all about other people in the wrong way; I am now going to defend myself.

I sold the Taxi machine to John a few months ago. He requested many pictures and multiple videos of the game playing before deciding to purchase it. He was originally going to pick up the game, but later decided to ask me to do him a favor and have it delivered. I listed the game at my cost in error, and later changed the price to what it was supposed to be listed at. The customer saved the original detail, and showed it to me in text, so I did what I felt was right, and honored the lower price. I believe I was selling it for around $5k, and the customer paid close to $4k, maybe as high as $4200. I did not argue, and once he sent me the original listing, or maybe even in text form, I agreed that it was my mistake, and I honored the lower price. The customer was told that I had not gone through the game as of yet, but that the game did work as it should, and that the game looked great. Rather then waiting for me to go through the game, he wanted me to deliver the game to him at an earlier date, since my delivery person was on the road on the day that we were discussing the deal, and the driver was within an hour or two of his location. Even though I broke even on the deal, and with gas and tolls being outrageous these days, I had the game delivered to him for $250 in order to make him, a new and hopefully very happy and satisfied customer. When the game was delivered to him, he told the driver that the game looked " even better than I expected it to be". Before I go further I would like to say that I take fault in not going through the game before sending it to him, even though he knew that fact, and wanted it anyway. Please remember that I had previously sent him several videos of the game being played in the condition that he was to receive it.

I am not sure if it was the next day, or maybe even 4-5 days later, the customer called to say that the machine was not full LED as stated in the listing. Apparently the most current listing showing the correct price did not matter unless he was looking at all of the upgrades that I was going to do to it after I had gone through the machine. Being that I do care about the people that buy machines from me, and that I am not a " Scumbag scalper" as I have been called on this thread, I offered him several options. first I offered to send him a full LED kit, and a full upgraded rubber kit free of charge. When that was not enough, I offered him his cash back, and he said no to both. He demanded in a very derogatory way with pretty harsh words ,and a very condescending tone that I go to his house personally to install the entire LED kit, and rubber kit immediately. What I did wrong at this time was to respond with harsh words. I know better, and I am a professional and ethical person, and I should not have lowered myself to the point where I was matching his harshness. I refused to go to his house and jump through unreasonable hoops for someone that was cursing at me and speaking to me in such a derogatory way, but I did not take the two other options off of the table. Horrible thoughts came to my mind that reminded me of the car wash scene from the movie Dodgeball, which made my stomach turn...

A few hours later, I called the customer, and got his voicemail; where I left a message apologizing for my part in the argument , and for taking part in such a non productive conversation. My goal was, and always is to make the customer happy. I have never denied a customer assistance, or said "No", when asked by a customer to assist in any way that was reasonable. I have even agreed to pay for a few repairs that were needed by customers here and there that were from purchases made than 6-12 months prior to the issue occurring. I waited a few days, and after receiving his voicemail once again; I thought that he finally realized that he knew what he was getting (A nice , 100% working Taxi, at a lower price than expected), and that he had come to see that the argument was frivolous and unnecessary; as I did. I thought that he too was not feeling good about himself for taking part in the previous conversation.

A while later, after not receiving any communication what so ever, the customer went on some campaign of posting negative and selectively inaccurate things on every ad that I had placed on several platforms. He was attacking me personally as if I had kidnapped one of his kids, or done something deliberately to harm him personally. This is how I put food on the table, and I do not understand how this person whom did not attempt to communicate with me any further could now deliberately try to hurt my livelihood, which obviously is a serious thing. Much more serious than a small dispute over a relatively small amount of money.
I had people that had never met me bad mouthing me on this thread, and most of which are small dealers that buy and sell in or around the area which I work in. I also had one or two out of maybe 500 customers complain about issues that they had had in the past which were not communicated to me. My ads were being flagged by him, and taken down, and he did cost me money by doing so.

After slandering me, and misrepresenting the situation; I do not see a way for him to repay the damage that he has caused me. Of coarse I am still in business, and he did not dramatically affect my livelihood, however this situation also bothered me mentally, because I try hard to be ethical, and to do the right thing in every situation. Now, people have judged me based on things that are not true, and a situation that I did my best to resolve amicably with the customer. All of this while the customer did not do his part in being reasonable and fair; as I believe that everyone should always be. Finally, I called and spoke to him. I told him that what he was doing was wrong and that he should stop, because it was slander. He demanded that I now give him a full refund and go and pick the machine up, or pay someone else to. He then found an individual that we both knew that was willing to do the pick up and delivery. for a relatively small amount of money. After thinking about it, I decided that he could not repair the damage that he did, and that I did not do anything wrong to this customer to warrant his actions, and that I did not want to comply with this blackmail mentality of demanding I comply or he will continue to slander me. I did not think that it was right for him to act in this way.

To avoid this from happening again, I will no longer send a game to a customer prior to going through it, unless they sign an invoice saying that they are purchasing an as-is game. I have also implemented a 7 day 100% credit trial period with all purchase of pinball machines. I give a 1 year 85% or more trade in credit, which usually turns into 90%, and a 5 year 75% or more trade in credit policy. I also follow up with customers more after their purchase is made, and do all I can to prove to people that I am no scalper, and I never was a scalper.

I plan on opening a showroom in the 2nd quarter of this year which will include a, arcade, mod store, video game store, E-sports arena, and to launch a new website. I plan to open several showrooms in major cities across the country over the coming years, and my reputation is very important to me. I do care about my business, and my name. I do not have an issue admitting a mistake, and I am a humble person that works hard and knows how to build a business. I have 30 years of experience in gaming. I had a company that I started in 1990 named Game Gallery, and grew the business to 18 stores, which I later sold to a fortune 1000 company in 2004. I had one of the first company's that took video game trade ins, and when my company was purchased by Electronics Boutique in 2004, one of the VP's there told me that they copied my used game program when they started taking trade ins in their 2000 locations... I had been taking trade ins several years prior to EB Games accepting trade ins. The HQ for EB Games was just over an hour drive from many of my locations in PA,NJ,MD, and DE.

Although I feel as if I was wronged by this customer, and the damage that he has called is not repairable, I will still extend him 100% credit towards anything the he likes in my inventory. I honestly do not feel that I owe this person anything, however I am willing to do my part to fix this in his eyes as well. I do not feel that I owe him anything, however I do realize the we are all human, and things happen in our daily lives that cause us to act differently than we normally do sometimes. The full refund is however off of the table, because I do believe that I was wronged here, and the customer had a chance for a full refund before, but instead decided to not communicate and instead decided to slander and bad mouth me.

Manny 215-840-3147 - I am a nice person, I can speak to anyone, and I would have preferred to not make this personal. I have done my best in this message to not talk bad about anyone, and it was especially hard to not say anything derogatory about the people that do not know me that had such harsh words to say about me in this thread.

#48 2 years ago

One more thing, I did make a mistake in the first message and I edited it. I thought that I had charged him $100, but obviously I was mistaken, and it was $250, which was still less than it cost me to do so. I don't know about other people, but I cant get anyone to work for less than $150 + for the day... The average cost to deliver a game to someone even just 100 miles away for me is over $300 after you consider gas, tolls, and the driver. I had a machine delivered to somewhere on the west side of PA, and the tolls were over $100 each way. Outrageous... I have a truck with a 12 foot trailer, and it is considered a 3 axle vehicle... If there is anyone that makes frequent trips between and SC, and from PA to OH, please contact me. I can give you a lot of business...

One last thing, I own Lights Out Pinball. I was renting some space from Todd next to TNT Amusements for close to 2 years. At some point I wanted to clear out my old inventory and was not sure if I was going to stay in the pinball business, so I liquidated my inventory to the gentleman that did the show in Allentown in 2021. Since I decided last November that I wanted to open a showroom, and focus on building a pinball business, I have ordered my new inventory of LEDs and some other pinball items, and I will launch my new website when I open my first showroom sometime this year, and I estimate that it will be in the next 2-4 months. I will not be vending in Allentown this year, because my inventory will not arrive in time, and because of other timing issues.

#49 2 years ago

Nice life story, thanks for sharing. Conduct businesses in an ethical fashion and you won’t have to write a soliloquy defending yourself. Blackmail? Slander? Nah, just well within my rights to objectively post my experience, the same as I would for a good experience. Lastly, a well know Pinsider, who will remain nameless unless they chose otherwise, was going to bring you the pin, for a refund, with me paying for the shipping, and you did not accept that offer. BUMP!

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from Manny10:

First, I am fine with someone posting my Pm, in case that saves somebody from being moderated. I did not want to add fuel to the fire, so I did not respond to the post. Since people are saying negative things about me without knowing me, and taking my having no desire to badmouth anyone else, or say anything negative at all about other people in the wrong way; I am now going to defend myself.
I sold the Taxi machine to John a few months ago. He requested many pictures and multiple videos of the game playing before deciding to purchase it. He was originally going to pick up the game, but later decided to ask me to do him a favor and have it delivered. I listed the game at my cost in error, and later changed the price to what it was supposed to be listed at. The customer saved the original detail, and showed it to me in text, so I did what I felt was right, and honored the lower price. I believe I was selling it for around $5k, and the customer paid close to $4k, maybe as high as $4200. I did not argue, and once he sent me the original listing, or maybe even in text form, I agreed that it was my mistake, and I honored the lower price. The customer was told that I had not gone through the game as of yet, but that the game did work as it should, and that the game looked great. Rather then waiting for me to go through the game, he wanted me to deliver the game to him at an earlier date, since my delivery person was on the road on the day that we were discussing the deal, and the driver was within an hour or two of his location. Even though I broke even on the deal, and with gas and tolls being outrageous these days, I had the game delivered to him for $250 in order to make him, a new and hopefully very happy and satisfied customer. When the game was delivered to him, he told the driver that the game looked " even better than I expected it to be". Before I go further I would like to say that I take fault in not going through the game before sending it to him, even though he knew that fact, and wanted it anyway. Please remember that I had previously sent him several videos of the game being played in the condition that he was to receive it.
I am not sure if it was the next day, or maybe even 4-5 days later, the customer called to say that the machine was not full LED as stated in the listing. Apparently the most current listing showing the correct price did not matter unless he was looking at all of the upgrades that I was going to do to it after I had gone through the machine. Being that I do care about the people that buy machines from me, and that I am not a " Scumbag scalper" as I have been called on this thread, I offered him several options. first I offered to send him a full LED kit, and a full upgraded rubber kit free of charge. When that was not enough, I offered him his cash back, and he said no to both. He demanded in a very derogatory way with pretty harsh words ,and a very condescending tone that I go to his house personally to install the entire LED kit, and rubber kit immediately. What I did wrong at this time was to respond with harsh words. I know better, and I am a professional and ethical person, and I should not have lowered myself to the point where I was matching his harshness. I refused to go to his house and jump through unreasonable hoops for someone that was cursing at me and speaking to me in such a derogatory way, but I did not take the two other options off of the table. Horrible thoughts came to my mind that reminded me of the car wash scene from the movie Dodgeball, which made my stomach turn...
A few hours later, I called the customer, and got his voicemail; where I left a message apologizing for my part in the argument , and for taking part in such a non productive conversation. My goal was, and always is to make the customer happy. I have never denied a customer assistance, or said "No", when asked by a customer to assist in any way that was reasonable. I have even agreed to pay for a few repairs that were needed by customers here and there that were from purchases made than 6-12 months prior to the issue occurring. I waited a few days, and after receiving his voicemail once again; I thought that he finally realized that he knew what he was getting (A nice , 100% working Taxi, at a lower price than expected), and that he had come to see that the argument was frivolous and unnecessary; as I did. I thought that he too was not feeling good about himself for taking part in the previous conversation.
A while later, after not receiving any communication what so ever, the customer went on some campaign of posting negative and selectively inaccurate things on every ad that I had placed on several platforms. He was attacking me personally as if I had kidnapped one of his kids, or done something deliberately to harm him personally. This is how I put food on the table, and I do not understand how this person whom did not attempt to communicate with me any further could now deliberately try to hurt my livelihood, which obviously is a serious thing. Much more serious than a small dispute over a relatively small amount of money.
I had people that had never met me bad mouthing me on this thread, and most of which are small dealers that buy and sell in or around the area which I work in. I also had one or two out of maybe 500 customers complain about issues that they had had in the past which were not communicated to me. My ads were being flagged by him, and taken down, and he did cost me money by doing so.
After slandering me, and misrepresenting the situation; I do not see a way for him to repay the damage that he has caused me. Of coarse I am still in business, and he did not dramatically affect my livelihood, however this situation also bothered me mentally, because I try hard to be ethical, and to do the right thing in every situation. Now, people have judged me based on things that are not true, and a situation that I did my best to resolve amicably with the customer. All of this while the customer did not do his part in being reasonable and fair; as I believe that everyone should always be. Finally, I called and spoke to him. I told him that what he was doing was wrong and that he should stop, because it was slander. He demanded that I now give him a full refund and go and pick the machine up, or pay someone else to. He then found an individual that we both knew that was willing to do the pick up and delivery. for a relatively small amount of money. After thinking about it, I decided that he could not repair the damage that he did, and that I did not do anything wrong to this customer to warrant his actions, and that I did not want to comply with this blackmail mentality of demanding I comply or he will continue to slander me. I did not think that it was right for him to act in this way.
To avoid this from happening again, I will no longer send a game to a customer prior to going through it, unless they sign an invoice saying that they are purchasing an as-is game. I have also implemented a 7 day 100% credit trial period with all purchase of pinball machines. I give a 1 year 85% or more trade in credit, which usually turns into 90%, and a 5 year 75% or more trade in credit policy. I also follow up with customers more after their purchase is made, and do all I can to prove to people that I am no scalper, and I never was a scalper.
I plan on opening a showroom in the 2nd quarter of this year which will include a, arcade, mod store, video game store, E-sports arena, and to launch a new website. I plan to open several showrooms in major cities across the country over the coming years, and my reputation is very important to me. I do care about my business, and my name. I do not have an issue admitting a mistake, and I am a humble person that works hard and knows how to build a business. I have 30 years of experience in gaming. I had a company that I started in 1990 named Game Gallery, and grew the business to 18 stores, which I later sold to a fortune 1000 company in 2004. I had one of the first company's that took video game trade ins, and when my company was purchased by Electronics Boutique in 2004, one of the VP's there told me that they copied my used game program when they started taking trade ins in their 2000 locations... I had been taking trade ins several years prior to EB Games accepting trade ins. The HQ for EB Games was just over an hour drive from many of my locations in PA,NJ,MD, and DE.
Although I feel as if I was wronged by this customer, and the damage that he has called is not repairable, I will still extend him 100% credit towards anything the he likes in my inventory. I honestly do not feel that I owe this person anything, however I am willing to do my part to fix this in his eyes as well. I do not feel that I owe him anything, however I do realize the we are all human, and things happen in our daily lives that cause us to act differently than we normally do sometimes. The full refund is however off of the table, because I do believe that I was wronged here, and the customer had a chance for a full refund before, but instead decided to not communicate and instead decided to slander and bad mouth me.
Manny 215-840-3147 - I am a nice person, I can speak to anyone, and I would have preferred to not make this personal. I have done my best in this message to not talk bad about anyone, and it was especially hard to not say anything derogatory about the people that do not know me that had such harsh words to say about me in this thread.

Quoted from Manny10:

One more thing, I did make a mistake in the first message and I edited it. I thought that I had charged him $100, but obviously I was mistaken, and it was $250, which was still less than it cost me to do so. I don't know about other people, but I cant get anyone to work for less than $150 + for the day... The average cost to deliver a game to someone even just 100 miles away for me is over $300 after you consider gas, tolls, and the driver. I had a machine delivered to somewhere on the west side of PA, and the tolls were over $100 each way. Outrageous... I have a truck with a 12 foot trailer, and it is considered a 3 axle vehicle... If there is anyone that makes frequent trips between and SC, and from PA to OH, please contact me. I can give you a lot of business...
One last thing, I own Lights Out Pinball. I was renting some space from Todd next to TNT Amusements for close to 2 years. At some point I wanted to clear out my old inventory and was not sure if I was going to stay in the pinball business, so I liquidated my inventory to the gentleman that did the show in Allentown in 2021. Since I decided last November that I wanted to open a showroom, and focus on building a pinball business, I have ordered my new inventory of LEDs and some other pinball items, and I will launch my new website when I open my first showroom sometime this year, and I estimate that it will be in the next 2-4 months. I will not be vending in Allentown this year, because my inventory will not arrive in time, and because of other timing issues.

Kudos to you for putting out your side and I believe your comments are a step in the right direction. As stated earlier, I believe reputation is of paramount importance in the pinhead community when it comes to buying and selling. If you are opening a show room I wish you luck but remember it only takes a few bad customer experiences to get you tarred on a site like pinside.

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