The light on the magnifying glass wasn’t powerful enough?

Bullspit. My gawd man…

Topper looks killer .. is it worth the price absolutely not .. is stern price gauging absolutely… but then again TS4 was 15K , Bond is 13.5K … everything is a rip right now either you buy it or you don’t .

Ultimately I do believe these prices won’t hold up cause they have superseded the ability to not lose money on your purchase and that’s why most are willing to “over pay “ but will take some time to s
Happen .

Now let’s move on and discuss how cool the topper is and hope for more cool toppers .. not worry about the rest .

Mando pro vs GZ pro.. ill admit Mando got more love early and I felt the same about GZ looking a bit open.. especially compared to Mando pro. The plastic ramps alone are right in your face. But after getting into both games I would snag the GZ pro. Better code, easier shots, great flow, and a variation of ball path. Mando is fun.. shoot the middle, get multi-ball, ambush, and the foundry is neat. Mando will be an easy snag cheap.. gz not so much. Get more plays on Mando. GZ is fun, Mando can be a little frustrating at times.

Godzilla is a good game for sure. But, I play Mando more. Why? IDK

Regardless of how tough Mando can play, I keep going back to it too. I'm obsessed. Finally got to I Like Those Odds twice. Took me forever, but I finally figured out some shot geometry and strategy. Hooked.

Well how do you feel about color dmd, or any other type of color display? I mean, if you’re just playing the playfield, then let’s do away with those silly things as well since we don’t look at them anyway! Same can be said on powder coating, under-cab lighting, etc. It’s simple fellas, so don’t put too much thought in it. If a pinhead LOVES their pin, he or she is going to MACK it out to make it the best they want it to be with the extra mods they want (insert car argument here).

I think the frustrating aspect of this topper isn't the high price (which sucks). Or the limited availability (which also sucks). It's that they continually produce these toppers with higher and higher prices with limited quantities, so the natural order of things (where you have to sell used for a loss) never happens. That's the frustrating part for me, you can't even be patient and wait for a used one because somehow even at ridiculous prices they can't figure out how to make them, lol.

Here are some fun old posts from when the GB topper was announced for $499

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Marco has listed the GB topper on their website for $499.95. Good Lord!!
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/502-7001-00

Quoted from jar155:
Ugh...pass. I'll make my own topper or go without. I'd rather put $500 into another game.

Quoted from indypinhead:
It looks better than the 1st one I saw. It still looks like the LAH topper to me.
It goes well w/ the pro/premium artwork...but not at all w/ the LE artwork.

Quoted from 30FathomDave:
I'm not feeling the topper. I was hoping for something a bit more ominous. I think I'm going to attempt to build one of my own.

Quoted from kpg:
Sorry, but that topper looks like shit. Turns an other wise awesome looking game into some Little Tykes kids toy to me. Should we put plastic proton packs and traps hanging off it as well? I'd rather have a Slimer or stay Puft guy up on top then a plastic siren that came off a Power Wheels police car

Quoted from jar155:
The proton siderails are a million times worse than the topper, but that topper is just bad too. Saves me $500, I guess.

Quoted from Chippewa-Pin:
I agree, but just not THAT topper. I'm sure the mod guys will come up with something really cool for the pro/prem and something different for the LE.

Quoted from iceman44:
Topper sucks. Waste of money.

Quoted from weapon76:
Ugly Topper with a ugly price tag... Pinblades are a must have though

The FOMO is out of control now with all of this stuff, all rational thought has gone out the window, lol.

100% they do
If I see my competitors selling similar product at higher prices, you can guarantee I evaluate my prices

I purchased a first run topper. At first I resisted. I know it is priced incredibly high but I got a steal on a Premium a few months back...loaded with IC, art blades, shooter knob along with some cosmetic mods. Added an animated Grogu. Even after spending what I did on a nice used premium plus what the topper costs, I still spent less money than if I bought a stock NIB Mando Premium delivered today.

ColorDMD is the only thing in your list that I disagree with. That upgrade is truly worth it and absolutely is justified. We can actually see WHAT is going on on the display when there's full color.

Like one of the MBs on ACDC - the startup sequence is the reflection of a train off a pinball as the two are about to crash. When I first saw that in all red and black, I honestly thought the game had gone into mouth-breather mode or something - I couldn't tell WTF just happened on the display. Took one look in color and it was so much more clear.

The amount of detail one can see in color vs a wash or either orange and black or red and black is substantial.

I've never owned a DMD game I didn't have a ColorDMD on, I don't consider it a mod as much as a necessity. But I get that not everyone feels that way. Tastes vary! What's a value or not is personal.

Raise your hand if when you sell a game you just let it go for what you bought it for years ago, because that's the price. 99% of the people here don't even think twice about checking the market for what a game is worth before listing it. Because that's normal, and how things are done.

Enjoy it. Deals still come around sometimes.

LOL... I can assure you that a multimillion dollar + corporation like Stern doesn't conduct business in that fashion... Trying to compare it to yourself and whatever business you operate is a bit hilarious...

It's amazing so many of you seem to think this is personal... It's not, it's business. Stern has a crushing demand problem, an absolutely crushing one... It's making it difficult to build games and accessories fast enough to keep impatient customers happy and they're failing to do that pretty regularly as of right now. So again, back to econ 101 for most of you... If you have crushing demand that's impacting the perception of your product and your ability to deliver it, your only option is to raise the price and keep raising it until you've impacted demand to the point where you didn't kill it but you did soften it enough to catch up. There's no glorified conspiracy going on here, Stern isn't going "well they got away with X price so we should try it". I mean come on people... But no, this is pinside where people must align in their camps and bitch accordingly. I don't know what's worse, the people who are complaining about how much it is or those who think it's okay to mock people because they like the product and want to buy it. Both groups are equally stupid and comical but again, welcome to pinside...

It's okay to not want to buy a topper, it really is. It's also okay to buy one as well. Neither of which should take 9 pages of a thread to sort out... Guess what people? Until demand is softened the prices are going to continue to increase so when the next game/accessory/topper comes out can we please avoid doing this again? LOL... Who am I kidding, of course not...

The issue with all of this, prices or not, is that more and more people that love playing pinball are ironically being screwed.

*Modes and codes baked into a limited accessory that only few can afford - A calculated FOMO strategy aimed at those poor souls who feel their game is no longer complete.
*Tiered models of pins with part shortages that hold up production across the board and put even more stress on designers to deliver multiple versions of their design.

Yeah yeah, no one HAS to buy this stuff I get it - but in the end all this limited/tiered model has done is bring in a bunch of people who want the "Limited" item like any other hobby that has been ruined by people with more money than passion. Yes this is a sweeping generalization, and not everyone who has an LE and/or a topper falls into this category - but go search historicals on the market and see how many of these limited games have less than 250 plays on them. This is who the target demo is now, this is where the priority is placed. Take a look in any thread about a newish game and it's 95% about what mods can be put in them, barely anything about gameplay or strategy.

Many operators can no longer justify a Premium or LE to put on route, and many previous buyers who play a ton of pinball at home are getting boxed out.

If only companies would make one model period and focus on getting them out to everyone, and put all the extras up for sale separately this shit would all work itself out.

I agree with you 1000% DPO. I put color dmds in all of my games because it looks nicer and really "modernizes" the pin so much. Plus, it really helps in regards to resale value. I was just being sarcastic in response to an earlier post about who looks at toppers while you're playing.

Sometimes I just like walking downstairs to my mancave and look at the pins, lit up or not, and marvel at them. Now how can you put a price on that? I can't imagine looking at pins like The Munsters, Black Knight or EHOH without those toppers. To me it completes the look, but I get the price tag is high. Oh well, I can always bury the topper with me when it's time for me to take a dirt nap.

Actually this would make things much, much, much worse... Stern can't keep up with the accessories it sells now and you want to turn "everything" into a post purchase accessory? That would be an utter disaster and you'd have so many pissed off customers waiting for accessories we'd have a dozen threads a day here bitching about how long people are waiting. The current model works under normal circumstances, it's just being overwhelmed by demand currently.

Also probably looking at the pinhead to pinhead re-sale market prices.

I HIGHLY doubt that, in fact, I'll go further and say that's just not happening at all. Stern doesn't have time to be delving into the used market to determine potential margin as the data set they'd be looking at is highly skewed and not reliable at all for a company of that size. Again, demand, demand, demand, demand, demand... Demand is crushing supply, I know that isn't a sexy answer but Occam's razor really applies here...

Poor Stern!! A crushing demand problem!!

AND RECORD PROFITS.

How is that conveyed to it's most loyal fans, buyers, and the pinball community (the one that held it together when pinball almost failed?) RIDICULOUS, IN YOUR FACE OVERPRICING. And buyers saying they don't care, they just want the topper. All for a game they could have done so much with in the first place (the magnet in front of Grogur is one of THE worst jokes LOL). Code could be sooo much better... so guess what? You want a better game, pay them the $2K!!!

I think the main thing is this- we all fell like we are a community here and unlike other businesses, we connect with the company at a more personal level than just about any other hobby- that's part of what makes pinball special. Most of us collectors know all the other private collectors locally, for example. That local stern dealer that we've bought all our games from knows us well, too.

So while it's "Business", it's "familiar customer business" to me.

I know I have said a lot about this topper, but the bottom line is I am done supporting Stern and their price increases and ridiculous, overpriced offerings. And yep, I don't take it personal but I am sure hate the way the direction of this hobby has gone...

Everyone says this until the next title or topper comes out, and Stern laughs all the way to the bank... It will take a mass exodus of collectors for them to do anything different and with records sales this tread of increased prices will only continue.

Am I the only one that finds it super odd that no one in that entire EXPO was excited enough to take a real, dedicated video showing off this amazing, breakthrough, record-priced $2K Topper? We have video of people eating sandwiches and walking around in a fog, but no one thought the topper was worthy of some dedicated time and an upload to youtube!

The biggest Expo, with the biggest pinball fans, designers of the world, and all that... and no one really seems to care.

It's because nobody actually cares about the topper, they care about the topper being worth $3k in 6 months, lol. It's just an investment, who cares what it actually does.

This unhinged rant gets a 10 for enthusiasm but it seems kind of half-formed, like it was taken out of the oven early.

Why stop at wishing financial ruin to those who dare buy this topper? You can go a lot further.

I’m thinking something like “I hope this topper explodes, burning down your house and setting your family back decades!! And I hope your dog eats the burning mound of plastic that remains, and he dies!! But not before suffering for a month and racking up $60,000 in vet bills!”

THIS TOPPER MUST RUIN YOUR LIFE!!”

Ok, top that buddy!

ok - you win - but you made a lot of assumptions there about the size of my company and operations at Stern.
My company likes to maximize profits and looking at the market conditions and competitors is one tool we use to adjust pricing.
But you are more schooled than I, so I yield.

Good lord... Apparently you fail to understand the most basic concept of economics... Supply and demand... The "overpricing" is deliberate in order to attempt to tamp down demand and clearly it's not working so expect even higher prices. I can assure you Stern doesn't remotely care about you or your local dealer or your private collector friends. What they do care about is how to address this seemingly insatiable demand in an economically rational way. They want you to stop supporting them so you're doing exactly what they want you to do, well not you specifically, in order to tamp down demand. Yikes...

Perhaps, not really sure that's relevant to be honest... Stern is being hit with such an overwhelming amount of demand that it's affecting a lot of things and while I'd certainly agree they are trying to maximize profits, I honestly think maximizing profits is a cherry on top so to speak with regards to tamping down demand more than anything else.

I'll fully admit, I could be completely wrong as I don't have access to Stern's books or their order sheet or their manufacturing schedule or their supply chain data and deliverables. I do know at the end of the day demand continues to grossly outpace supply which seems like a much more logical explanation than anything else offered here...

This would only make things worse for people who care about accessories over playing pinball. How is it a disaster that a singular non-tier game is released and delivered to everyone on time?

How has the current model of tiered game models been working long term? All we have are games with less, costing more, and while that used to only be for the "pro" models, it's crept into the premium/LE tier. We have just been extremely fortunate that there are still designers and coders out there who can pull off something special.

Every compromise and cash grab/increase has been off the accessories that don't do jack for the game design. Powdered armor, toppers (well up until they could design & milk game modes) shakers, mirror blades, aprons, $5 toys on springs, cake topper figures.

so .... you actually can't assure me

FUQ THAT TOPPER PRICE BOY!

I like Mando. I will continue to like it without the topper!

Yeah I don't get it, this is what a corporation in a capitalist society is supposed to do. Just look at the $500 Battle Cat figuring that is coming out soon in the He-Man universe for example. Heck people do it with salaries when there is a shortage of qualified workers, I did it during the dot.com boom and during the PlayStation 3 days when no one wanted to dev on that cursed machine. I milked it then, Stern is milking it now, it's textbook capitalism.

Would like to see Mandalorian Madness or Beskar Bonanza in action.

LMAO. They are deliberately under-producing this item and over charging. That's market manipulation, not basic supply and demand. And guess who they are taking advantage of? You and me (albeit, willingly, no one needs this but we want it). Would you say that Stern has a monopoly of some sort on mass produced pinball and our hobby? No one else can produce like they can.

Stern is a MANUFACTURING company, right? They could pump thousands out and make a good profit. Instead, limited availability and offer high prices on a topper because their fans are enthusiastic (and apparently, rich). There is NOTHING on this topper that would create a supply issue, either. That screen and many other screens that could be used on this and basic printed plastics with LED's are plentiful in todays market.. This is not a "supply chain" issue.

The bottom line is I see what they are doing and am on the side of calling it out.. you can be on the side of "a $2K Topper is OK" and I'm ok with your position too. But let's not pretend this cheap topper is not a fleecing of your wallet.

We're going to need Project Pinball auctions/raffles just to be able to afford a Stern Topper now.

LOL... Stern is absolutely not under-producing... Stop making stuff up. If Stern can't keep up what the hell does that tell you about overall demand? Why is it people automatically default to the least likely explanation for damn near everything? Stern makes their own toppers in house, they can only make so many of them in a given time frame. They're still woefully behind on other toppers for other games. But yeah, they're ridiculously behind everywhere intentionally...

I think color DMD's are awesome. They are also an upgrade to a needed part of the game. The rest of the disco bullshit can go. Changing your DMD is like upgrading the wheels on your car. Adding stick on flame decals from AutoZone,....not so much. Especially if the flame decals were 2K. It's a personal taste thing. I don't knock people if they want a topper. When I got into pinball nobody was packing in toys r us goodies. Maybe I'm too sentimental of the "good old days"

I've never owned a DMD game but would like to at some point. I certainly would want a color DMD.

Bunch of grown men arguing about a $2k toy they don't even want for a machine they don't even own. Not that I care, argue away, but as much as I don't care, Stern cares less. Buy it, don't buy it. First run sold out pretty immediately which tells you what you need to know about the business decision on the pricing.

I have a take on this that is maybe an interesting twist on the topper price argument. Where does your $2k come from? In my case, I have been waiting since my Mando LE purchase last spring to get this topper. That's a lot of time to get the money together. For the last few weeks, I have been getting a bedroom re-painted, walls, trim, windows and doors and ceiling, wood filled some baseboard areas, patched nail holes in the walls and windows, stripped paint off of electrical outlets (yes someone before us painted them) and replaced the flooring. I did this myself and I figure that I've saved our family $2k in the process. That effort gets me this topper. And teaches our kids about where the value of money comes from.

I see your point and that's valid but I wonder how many people that want toppers are more recently into pinball and only like the "latest greatest" machines? I justify my pinball money doing the same thing you do but for 2K I'd rather buy another EM or SS machine.
My wife used to buy lunch every day for $8-$11. I packed my lunch from home for years, (mostly leftovers), and justified buying my 2010 Harley street glide, used.

Yeah, it’s all relative there buddy. Some people will pay way over $2k for film prints, for example. Worth it to you or me? Nope. Worth it to someone who really REALLY loves the movie and has a 35mm projector? Yup.

And all of this says nothing about your income. $2000 to you and me is like $20,000 or $2 to some people. That’s life.

So I confess I didn’t really read your response, and now that I did, it makes no sense at all. Forced to buy a $2000 movie… what are you rambling about here exactly? Is Stern forcing you to buy this topper?

Nah, the better analogy is this:

Movie store: Movie for sale $2000
You: no thanks

See how that works?

Ok to sum up this dumb thread, and every single other thread that is about pricing in the hobby:

People would like to pay less money for stuff. Some people will buy it even though they’d like to pay less.

Also there are planes that charge you $2000 but a movie you didn’t really want to watch is included.

Now we all see how it works.

Wow! Let the scalping begin

ebay.com link: itm

Unfortunately none of this stuff is overpriced until people stop lining up to buy it.

Not everyone has room for more games or wants 10-20 pins.

Fair enough. I don't have room for more pins. That doesn't mean I don't want more!

Edit: I'm actually trying to slim down to about 5 or 6 not counting 1930's table top stuff. I hear ya. Trying to keep 20 games going and 3 cars that need restoration/finishing becomes over whelming.

Some don’t have room for toppers.