I play almost daily at a location near where I work that has an Avengers Pro next to an X-Men. A few of the other guys in my league are down there regularly as well. When AV first came in we played it quite a bit because it was new, but it seems like everyone grew tired of it pretty quickly. We've more or less migrated back to playing X-Men, despite the fact that we didn't think much of that game at first either. I have the GC score on AV too, so it's not like I haven't had good games on it. I just don't like most of the shots and the flimsy parts.

Well of course owners like it. I own it. If I didn't like it, it would be gone. The fact that someone still owns it says that they like it. I not only like the game, I love it. The rules are really well done, the shot flow is unique, shots are right and rewarding. Game's quite fun. I'm referring to the LE. never played the pro.

Im exact opposite, I wanted to like Xmen because of the art and being an Xmen fan. I just hate Xmen. It just really sucks to me. Maybe its me but theyres more shots with the left flipper than right. It just seems unbalanced. Also theyres no real story line and the code still sucks.

Avengers code seemed more finished but had mechanical issues.
I just love the satisfying feeling of hitting that BW or Hawkeye shot a couple times in a row. I wouldn't like the pro nearly as much.

Are you kidding me - Again you must not have spent much time on the table how many more distinct shots do you think you could fit on a table?

Left Flipper Shots -
1 Backhand the scoop
2 Wolverine
3 Magneto then Magneto lock
4 Cyclops Loop
5 Iceman Ramp - During IceMan mode the moving ramp also continually feeds the left flipper for multiple ramp shots.
6 Phoenix Loop
7 Brotherhood Targets
8 Nightcrawler Popups
Not to mention Magneto Lock Targets

Don't forget left flipper beast. I backhand beast about 20%. It's hard but possible and satisfying. Perhaps not if your wolverine isn't moved over.

You seem to have misread what he wrote. He said that the game is unbalanced in that most shots are left flipper shots.

I disagree. With the right flipper you can hit 1) Hellfire targets 2) scoop 3) Beast/Gambit/pops 4) Wolverine 5) Xavier 6) Magneto 7) Cyclops. With the left flipper you've got 1) Brotherhood targets 2) Phoenix 3) Iceman 4) Cyclops 5) Magneto. If anything, the left flipper has access to less shots, but it doesn't matter to me, as each flipper can hit tons of shots.

Still enjoying my Hulk LE while a much more "loved" game STTNG that I picked up recently I think is terrible. Point being - everyone has different tastes. If you don't like TAV then don't buy it or don't play it on location. Too many of these threads are simply one person or group trying to enforce their preferences on another. All this does is result in flavor of the month games. And that I think is pathetic.

There are just as many right flipper shots as left, cant get much more even than this. Again more bad information from someone who obviously hasn't spent much time on the table. I appreciate everyones opinion but at least have some actual knowledge about the topic before you write something completely wrong.
1 Hellfire Club
2 Scoop
3 Beast and Gambit
4 Wolverine
5 Xavier
6 Magneto
7 Cyclops
8 Night Crawler
Ans also Magneto Lock Targets

Thanks DC Fan. I just want to say when im playing more shots are being left flipper. Didnt say they couldn't be right handed shots it just seems in-balanced. and the CODE SUCKS

It just feels opposite of the way BK2k is.. Its heavily right flipper. You can hit shots with the other flipper its just unbalaned

I've only put in two games on a Hulk Edition at the Michigan Pinball Expo and it was a great time both times. Between the cranked up sound, the Hulk ripping ramps apart and the crowd slowly forming around me and the HDTV's showing my game, it was a total adrenaline rush!! I had no issues with the layout, was able to make the tight ramp shots consistently with practice, and never felt bored/without something to shoot at.

The only "issue" I had with the game was I kept getting the ball stuck under The Hulk's elbows - probably happened 4 times each game. 'Sides from that, I had a blast! I'd love to own one someday.

I played Hulk a lot at the TPF and had the same issue with the ball getting stuck under his elbows pretty consistently. I found it to be a visually appealing game, but I'm not a fan of repeating shots so many times. The layout is interesting - I liked it.

So now that the facts are their that both flippers are not only close to equal but actually 100% equally balanced you have now chosen to state the code sucks. Thats quite the detailed explanation there, what exactly do you think sucks about the code? Have you read the detailed rule breakdown created by Ryan on this board? Its well known that there needs to be a few more updates to correct some bugs and the addition of combos. But the same could have be said about another great game Tron that was good and the latest update made it that much better. If you have some insightful information about what sucks you should share some details and contribute to making people more informed while possibly driving the next update to address your exact concerns.

Oh god someone mentioned tight shots oh how I hate that. I always felt xmen suffered the same and was so happy when it went.

What saves Avengers from being too repetitous for me is that every shot is active. You are never locked into having to do the same shot over and over. The hero modes stack, multi-balls going on, tesseract mode, etc. If the total number of shots to start/complete modes is worriesome, it can be adjusted down.

I guess if someone were to approach the game in a linear fashion, start/complete Black Widow, start/complete Iron Man, then it could get repetitive.

So now that the facts are their that both flippers are not only close to equal but actually 100% equally balanced you have now chosen to state the code sucks.

no rule explanation can ever fix this

RoppLonnie.jpg

I like Avengers, don't love it. Biggest issues for me are the flimsy plastics in the shooter lane and widow ramp which reject a lot of shots. Pretty sad when an auto plunge doesn't even make it to the pops because the plastic bends and sways to stop the ball momentum.

Also, Avengers has IJ4-itis in that the bonus is *way* over the top for this game. It's actually even worse than IJ4 in that the bonus can be held very easily. When your bonus is 300 million and your score is only 80 million, then you hold bonus and get another 300 million automatically for doing nothing...something is fundamentally broken.

I said the code was poor in my very first post in this thead...And I still think its off balanced. Look at my first post.

Im glad your happy and satisfied. I don't have time to argue over the point that i don't care for the pin. I don't like it, I don't care for anything about it but the Art. Like i said each person can look in their settings and see if one flipper has been used more than the other. Even if their dead even its still feels unbalanced to me.

couldn't have said it better!

Get off the mountain and stop making sense Moises. The rule sheet reads like gone with the Wind. It never ends, repeat shot x time to start, end and restart. Dot and voices are good.

OP - you broke the cardinal rule of Pinside. Saying a game sucks is the quickest and surest way to get kicked in the nuts a whole bunch of times.

Well, we all have different taste so that is good. My first impressions where that the game lacks in many ways and felt more like a 2-3k pin vs a 6k pin. I haven’t had enough games on it to form a 2nd impression so, who knows? The first time a played AC/DC I felt it was a top tier game but, much of that could be a matter of taste.

It's a pretty fun game. It is a little flat and certainly over priced for what you get, but that's nothing new.

For all the crap thrown at X-Men with its issues....that have been sorted out since. This game should be torn apart from back box to levers. Maybe owners have gotten smart and decided not to air their games dirty laundry, so they can sell it at a reasonable price.

Whoever said the "bonus is over the top" must be playing a prototype or something. Bonus sucks on this game until you are very deep into it.

Also, Avengers is about shotmaking. Shotmaking is a big part of pinball, but so are rules, theme, layout, etc. but if you love shotmaking and don't like Avengers you have not, IMO, played the game enough. It's a shotmakers paradise. And it's not easy.

Rules are also much better than they are getting credit for here. But so what? I like it. I own it, and if I may say something never uttered previously on Pinside...it's not going anywhere anytime soon!

Yes well john like myself is a top tiered player. It sucks!

No prototype, just a Pro on route. Multiple people have scored over a billion on it, 1 of them in the last TOPs Tournament on it even so no EBs. It isn't about being deep in the game to get a good bonus, it's concentrating on building your multiplier and maxing it out. Bonus gets ridiculous fast when you concentrate on building up your multipliers. On the billion+ games for instance, 700 million+ of the score is all bonus. That shouldn't happen. And it isn't just with high scoring games. I've had a 30 million single ball bonus on an 80 million total point game.

^^^^This. Really, this is what it comes down to. "Bang for the buck" ...Avengers is fine...but I don't like it more than most 2-3k pins, so - I can't imagine a scenario where I'd want to spend over 6k on one. On its own merits, price aside - it has some pros, it has some cons. I think it suffers mostly from being released in the wake of AC/DC. It's tough to go back to "decent" after "pure magic" at a luxury price-point.

In this game, it is extremely undesirable for the ball to ever be in the pops. That's the most dangerous place as many left outlane drains come from exiting the pops. Best is to always plunge short then take a right flipper shot. So the issue is a lucky feature . Unfortunately in my game auto plunger usually does hit pops so I have to quickly manual plunge to avoid that.

Ill admit that stock factory set up of avengers had lots of issues. The BW ramp rejects are solved utterly by removing the plastic above the ramp. Now the ball flies around that ramp.

As for bonus, you generally get 1-2 mil bonus. Once you start completing modes, which is pretty far into the game, you are rewarded with higher bonuses. I've seen 30-40 mil and been thrilled. Never seen 300 mil.

Own it and enjoy it a lot. That's all I care about. My family likes it too. I set it on easy. Every shot does something. Kids like that. Casual players like it -- I can explain that it's like the movie... you have to assemble the Avenger's. Even on easy, it's a challenging enough game, but not too f@cking complicated. They often get Hulk multiball and have fun. Hulk is "cool". Lot's of people saw the Marvel movies and like the theme.

I've played my LE for months - and I'm pretty decent - and never scored 300M let alone had 300M in bonus. Something doesn't add up with how that pro is scoring. Im just really glad I have one of 500 of these things. This is so much more game than 90% of the pinball population realizes. And when they figure it out, they'll still only be 500 LEs.

ACDC could have sucked and it still would have sold...just like Metallica and Star Trek, etc. Yet another superhero pin, by GG no less, who just can't do anything right as far as the pinaratti is concerned, just gets lost in the noise of complaints and over expectation and short memory's and bad memory's and what's next wish i was closer and pm sent.

The jury isn't still out on Avengers, it hasn't even entered the jury box. It's still pre trial motions.

Very average pin at best. Not particularly fun or satisfying to play, and clunkier than crap. Decent looking and sounding, but that only lasts so long before you find that the play just isn't there.

I am not going to bother to read the rest of the comments. I will just say "You Are Right". When the game first came out and I gave the same crappy review I got trashed by the club of early buyers who wasted money.

This happend with every new game and every owner who thinks they made an investment that will go up. Anyone who buys for that reason and gets screwed, oh well.

Dialed in makes a HUGE difference.
Almost all of the HUO/NIB ones for sale have been Hulk's. Could it be people who bought them on speculation? Where are the Blue for sale ads? Maybe they are people who wanted the game but were not willing to pay the premium that the Hulk was going for?
Everyone has their own preferences on what they want to see in a game. Personally I love my Avengers & look forward to "Living with it" for a long time to come...

With regard to 'dialing in' i'd like to see what sorts of adjusments you all have made. Maybe i've missed one or two.

We like our Avengers better than anything in the collection. Couldn't care less about their value as I won't be selling it. Holds interest much longer than a lot of other games due to the fact that its difficult. Don't get me wrong, sometimes it's fun to rack up a bunch of points on easier games like Tron or TOM. Avengers has absolutely made us both better players.

ME TOO. WARMING UP AT AVENGERS AND AFTER GIVING A BEATING AT MY ACDC

I don't care that my Hulk is worth less than the day I bought it, I'm not selling it.

I just had an awesome game on mine... managed to collect all the Avengers, then started the Hellicarrier, lost my ball in short order, completed Thor and Hulk, got BW vs going, also Ironman Vs, total score just north of 100 million. I wasn't playing for score, I was working my way through the modes, so I don't know how to get monster scores, but my game lasted over 20 minutes. was awesome and really satisfying.

I tweaked the fork on the autolauncher and corked the launch ramp and the LDB.
Adjusted the switch under the floorplate in front of Hulk.
Zdoor mod should be here Friday and if you want to see it in person the game will be at PAGG.

I've never played Avengers, but really want to. The vs. modes sound really interesting to me. How does the game pick who the completed hero gets to fight?

The problem with avengers is that the shot layout and angles are really unique. It's really hard to walk up to it and not miss 80% of the shots. It usually takes me 3-4 games to get use to the angles - and that's as an owner that's played several games. By my third game I can start combining the ramps. It's odd. It's fresh. It's fun.

Very cool indeed. If you watched the movie fights have the same ending and turnovers. You shoot of a heroe and than you shoot the other in alternance. Sometimes you add another hero shot to the mix to have that movie scenario satisfaction. Like when captain america fights Loki, they go at it one on one until BW comes and then Iron Man for the finisher. Same with Thor coming to BW helps when she runs for her life trying to escape Hulk on the Helicarrier. Thor vs Iron Man too until captain america comes to end it with his shield block. Thor fights Hulk and the shield comes with a diversion with a jet to get Hulk of the Helicarrier. BW has a fight with HE after Loki poisonned his heart. Movie is well followed.

Just had a similar game tonight! 201 mill. Made the helicarrier for the first time. To note though I'm seriously to 5 ball and easy on bw and im.

Both X Men LE and Avengers LE are hard games. Both are great. I haven't played the pros. The fact that they are hard, will make many players not "like" the game.

It blows.

You have such a way with words.

Interesting.. Corking the ramp? Is there a mod or place to get this? I assume it keeps the ball from slapping left to right?

I think the reason you see more Hulks for sale on here is because more Hulks were bought on Pinside. I think I've seen 8-10 for sale in the last few months.

Personally i know of 9 people who own Hulks and 1 that owns a Blue.
May be alot of Blues in Distributors hands.