(Topic ID: 48335)

Man Avengers Sucks Soooo Bad. What Happened?


By mickthepin

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 510 posts
  • 135 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by TwilightZone
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Is Avengers to the standard that we would like from stern”

  • Yes 17 votes
    11%
  • No 102 votes
    69%
  • No, but L.E And if you can afford all the extras it's a great game 27 votes
    18%
  • Yes it is the best game. I have a mint MM will trade 2 votes
    1%

(148 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 510 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 11.
-13
#1 7 years ago

Played Avengers for the first time the other day in competition. WTF. There is nothing on the playfield, its like someone started stripping it and stopped half way. It is so bad and whats with chucking that spinning thing in from TOTAN. I am sure there are other threads on this very subject but just wanted to start another because there can never be enough threads on what a turd this game is.

#2 7 years ago

It may not be the fullest game if your looking at the playfield, but i can name numerous other games that have that same "problem" and are considered classics, it think AFM is the best example. If you don't like it fine, everyone has different opinions. I'm not going to argue about taste, pretty pointless. But just curious, how many games did you play on it?

#3 7 years ago

I like the game , but some of the materials and the general quality of the game seemed like a disappointment. Tight shots (which is good and bad), flimsy black widow ramp, poor location of hulk gobble hole. If the tight shots aren't being hit, the ball just seems to bounce around and not do much.

I really like the Hulk call outs and animations quite a bit though.

#4 7 years ago

Maybe you should put more plays into the game!

#5 7 years ago

I like the Avengers theme. I also like the sound and DMD animation on the game. I'm always a little slow to warm up on a new game as I'm not a very good player.

The first time playing Avengers I thought it seemed pretty good. I didn't fair very well, but that par for the course...especially on a new machine. After playing it some more...I realized I don't like the game much at all (except for the mentioned theme, sounds and dots). The shots just are too tight for me and the rules seem pretty repetitive (5 shots to the BW ramp to start Black Widow and 10 shots to the same BW ramp to complete Black Widow). The problem is the Black Widow ramp and many of the shots are clunky and near imposable to hit reliably. The game also seem plagued with ball hangups and regularly waiting on ball searches to continue play. It's also never a good sign for a game when you ask a top ranked player what the tourney strategy is and they say "Hit the left orbit and make sure you keep an eye on the LOKI lanes...that's all you need to do is hit the left orbit". The good news for me there is the left orbit and the Cap lane are the only shots that feel right to me.

I can't think of another Gomez game that I have not liked the feel of the layout besides Avengers. I usually really like his games because he has shallow ramps (not steep) most of the time that don't make it halfway up and them come back at you. I also never think of tight shots when I think of his other games. LOTR, MB, JM, Transformers, Sopranos, Playboy all get the nod over Avengers in my opinion.

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from Toasterdog:

if the tight shots aren't being hit, the ball just seems to bounce around and not do much.

I seem to have a lot of shots (to Black Widow and Iron Man) that seem like perfect shots (hard and straight) and yet they hit the shot and then rattle around and come right back.

-3
#7 7 years ago

Seems to me the only supporters are those that have bought the game and now have to live with it. Believe me you don't want to take the kind of hit you would have to if you were to sell it now. The game is a turd. JMO of course

#8 7 years ago

On the up side I played x-men and was pleasantly surprised. I had heard it was not very good an I thought it was not bad. Mind you this could just be in direct comparison to Avengers.

#9 7 years ago

Do we really need another thread on this? We get it , you dont like it...move on.

Btw, isn't it a good sign when owners say they like it? Though I guess by your logic, you'd just say they are biased. It's a pointless thread.

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from mickthepin:

Seems to me the only supporters are those that have bought the game and now have to live with it.

I own the game, but personally that doesn't stop me from "disliking" a game. With most LE purchases they are done without actual playtesting. I for one have no problem with the consequence of this. So far i have no regret of any pin i bought NIB. Sure i like some better then others, but real regret? Nope.

And btw, i know enough people here that like the game even though they don't own it.
But i noticed myself that there, like many other games, is a difference between games. Mine plays very good, only the BW can give me some grief. But i played others like my brother in laws pin, that feels more clunky, and the shots indeed rattle more then mine. Don't know if this is because of setup or something else?

#11 7 years ago

Avengers is a hard game. It takes time to learn the shots which are tighter than any other game I've played. Otherwise you're just bouncing the ball around.

That to me makes it a prime game for ownership.

#12 7 years ago

It's not a bad game per say, just doesn't feel innovative (and the VUK in front of the hulk seems to get weak quick, which makes for a horribly stuck ball)

#13 7 years ago

I played the pro version recently and walked away saying man that game sucks. I played a well setup LE version and it played completly different. I had to have one so I went a bought a HUO hulk. The shots are tight so if your not very good I can see where you would not like the game but if you can hit the shots its a great game. The vs mode is awesome and the hulk callouts are great.

#14 7 years ago

If you read previous threads-many people have played a couple times and formed an opinion. I hated the game at first. Took me 20-30 plays to start to see game design, rules, and layout. I actually like the playfield being tight. The ramp shots are more difficult this way. Hawk-Eye and Black-Widow especially. It is like apples and oranges compared to other games like Iron man with no upper flippers and wide open playfield with shots. I am really enjoying mine and feel it helps round out collection with something different. X-men still is my favorite but it is nice to have something so different as not to get bored-IMO

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Do we really need another thread on this? We get it , you dont like it...move on.

Why not discuss it? This is a pinball discussion forum.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from mickthepin:

On the up side I played x-men and was pleasantly surprised. I had heard it was not very good an I thought it was not bad. Mind you this could just be in direct comparison to Avengers.

I think both games are pretty weak. They just feel very cheap to me. Stern can't hit a home run with every pin they put out. At least the majority like AC/DC, except maybe the pro which is just a hideous playfield to look at. Good times ahead though as Metallica and Star Trek have a better chance on theme alone and Stern seems to be putting more quality in their pins.

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Took me 20-30 plays to start to see game design, rules, and layout.

I think I needed more games than this even... I definitely remember hating my Hulk at first. Plus it took a while to level it properly and tweak it (like the BW ramp plastics).

The LE with the ramp diverter active (where you can select to send the ball to Loki or across the Hawkeye ramp to feed the BW shot) is awesome, and there aren't many LEs out there.

Probably means it is bombing on location. I wonder as the years pass, if the game will get more love and there will be so few of them out there it will be one of those golden titles.

#18 7 years ago

I like Avengers, but yes, some of the shots are difficult. It looks nice with LEDs. I would have liked to see a illuminated Tesseract, but that would be more difficult it implement because then entire assembly spins (it can be done though).

Not a fan of the "cheap" looks with the plastic cutouts. I prefer when they use toys from existing lines (e.g. Tron, Transformers, etc...)

It's hard to have a strong opinion on a game unless you have played it a fair # of times.

#19 7 years ago

I would have liked to see a illuminated Tesseract

Not a fan of the "cheap" looks with the plastic cutouts. I prefer when they use toys from existing lines (e.g. Tron, Transformers, etc...)

I too had an issue with this-but I fixed it-lovin it.

Avengers_Mods_012.JPG

#20 7 years ago

yeah, just bought that mod this week, can't wait

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4B-emTfAyYI#t=34s

#21 7 years ago

Holy dog shit, the illuminated Tesseract mod is amazing in person.

Avengers is a fun game with a unique layout. To each his own.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from mickthepin:

Played Avengers for the first time the other day in competition. WTF. There is nothing on the playfield, its like someone started stripping it and stopped half way. It is so bad and whats with chucking that spinning thing in from TOTAN. I am sure there are other threads on this very subject but just wanted to start another because there can never be enough threads on what a turd this game is.

So I'm guessing you didn't go too well in the comp Mick ...

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from MIL:

So I'm guessing you didn't go too well in the comp Mick

How do you get coffee out of a keyboard..LOL!

#24 7 years ago

I have played this game at TPF about 30 times both LE and Pro. The other day I played a Pro about 20 times on location. The game is hard. Kick your ass mode for sure. Shots are tight, playfield is barren. Game parts are very cheap. At TPF I saw bent ramps. The ball get hung up badly during every game. At TPF I was like man I want this game. My initial ratings would have been a 8.5 Pro and 9/10 for LE. Now that I have had more games on it I would rate it a 7.5 out of 10 for the Pro and would have to play an LE again to re-evaluate but I am almost sure my score would go down. The game has to be set up just right and dialed in or you will get half way up the ramp shots that drain. Reasons I can't justify buying this machine...Not a huge Avengers fan, (casual comic book fan) game parts are cheap and I mean really flimsy metal ramps on a LE. Finally at 4500-5k for a Pro NIB and 6500-7500 NIB for a Blue and 7k + for Hulk NIB I see much better games to be had NIB at all three price points. Tron Pro > Avengers Pro, AC/DC Prem > Avengers blue LE. Or I would get a very well cared for 9/10 condition 90's Williams title like MB > Hulk LE. Just sooooooooooo many better games to pick out for all 3 price points.

In closing I am glad that over the past month or so I have played several games to not make the mistake of buying an Avengers NIB.

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from mickthepin:

Played Avengers for the first time the other day in competition. WTF. There is nothing on the playfield, its like someone started stripping it and stopped half way. It is so bad and whats with chucking that spinning thing in from TOTAN. I am sure there are other threads on this very subject but just wanted to start another because there can never be enough threads on what a turd this game is.

Pretty much agree. I have a bunch of games through a Hulk. Game feels jenky.

11
#26 7 years ago

I see you own Fishtales and Indiana Jones, so you obviously like easier games... so I totally understand why you don't like Avengers.

I'm kind of baffled at people in our hobby who love pinball but are quick to bring the hate on a game- "MAN THIS GAME IS A TURD!!!". Lighten up a little. And yeah, I'm guessing you didn't do well in the tourney on the Avengers. Get over it.

If you don't like it, hey, there's plenty of machines out there. But the dramatic "turd" calling is a little over the top if you ask me. It's just pinball.

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

I see you own Fishtales and Indiana Jones, so you obviously like easier games... so I totally understand why you don't like Avengers.

While I'll agree that the subject has been beaten to death, there are plenty of things not to like about TAV besides being "hard". The LE seems like a good game but pro is bottom of the barrel for it's price range.

#28 7 years ago

One thing I do not recall ever seeing mentioned about the tesseract is how brilliantly it is placed. It stops 99% of the balls rolling out from behind the hulk drops from going SDTM.

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from bobbyconover:

Why not discuss it? This is a pinball discussion forum.

I didn't say not to discuss it, just that we didn't need another thread on this. People are lazy and don't use search, instead the flood the board with the same topics. There are plenty of good threads on this topic.

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from jitneystand1:

While I'll agree that the subject has been beaten to death, there are plenty of things not to like about TAV besides being "hard". The LE seems like a good game but pro is bottom of the barrel for it's price range.

I'll disagree with you on that one, I have an LE, my friend has a Pro, and I'd rate both games the same on gameplay.. while my LE has a lot of nice upgrades and a crossover, objectively I don't see how you could like one and not like the other.. especially when I consider I paid $2600 more for mine. If you think the pro is the bottom of the barrel for that price, why would the LE be so much better for the extra $2600 I paid? I don't get it. But I like my LE and prefer it over the pro as I like full games (but I'm willing to drop the extra $).

And what does the Avengers have going for it that a lot of guys seem to forget? The code is complete, makes sense, and is fun when you play it. The VS. modes are awesome, but you don't see them unless you've had a good game. Avengers offers a unique experience and it's fun. Great theme also. That's all I need/want in a pinball.

Either way, IT'S JUST PINBALL. There's lot of games I don't like, but to start a thread and start the dramatic "TURD" calling and all that just seems extreme. Move on.

#31 7 years ago

The game isn't stellar, it's not horrible, it's very meh. The real problem with super hero games is that I find myself comparing them all to Spider-Man.

As a guy who hates super hero themes, SM is by far the best. IM is a snoozer, X-Men is flawed and clunky, I think Avengers is better than those, but very meh.

#32 7 years ago

I just picked a Pro up. It is a very difficult game and it does grow on you. It has to be set up well to play correct. That is what is great about pinball not every game will be great and people enjoy all kinds of shots.

#33 7 years ago

Op your not alone in your opinion. I felt like I was playing on a single ply of wood. I would be interested in the sales number on this game, the general buzz implies that this game did not do great in the sales department. However, just all speculation.

#34 7 years ago

I just played it for quite a bit a couple weeks ago in Vancouver, I also think it sucked fairly bad, and it won't be getting my quarters ever again...I side with OP Like someone above said, they can't all be winners...

#35 7 years ago

The fact that you could buy a NIB $6K Hulk LE last week which is by FAR the nicest of the versions says a lot about how the game is doing. And then several HUO's after that.

Quoted from coz6:

the general buzz implies that this game did not do great in the sales department.

17
#36 7 years ago

mick- you must understand. This is pinside...

If you haven't played 50+ games, you can't have an opinion.

If the topic's already been covered, you can't express an opinion.

If the game's feels like it sucks, it's not a bad game, it's that you just don't "get it" yet

-jon

#37 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

The game isn't stellar, it's not horrible, it's very meh. The real problem with super hero games is that I find myself comparing them all to Spider-Man.
As a guy who hates super hero themes, SM is by far the best. IM is a snoozer, X-Men is flawed and clunky, I think Avengers is better than those, but very meh.

Having owned 3 of those 4; I'd agree - SM>AVLE>IM>xmen

if your good at pinball and give it some playtime, AVLE is a great pin. If your a poor player or judge it off a dozen or less plays, it's not so great. The trick is learning the shots and if your first time playing it is in competition, well yea...can't help you there. However, in a huo environment weaker players are rewarded with GREAT call outs and awesome sound fx. It hasn't been since FGY, that stern had a game with this many custom call outs. So the game does have a little everything for everyone; and let's not forget about how fun 5 and 6 ball mb's are. Stackable vs modes along with stackable board rules mb's is always a plus for the experts.

#38 7 years ago

In all fairness though, I've founds most games improve after I've played them enough to understand the rules and the shots.
After my first game, I would have agreed with your opinion. I didn't like it much either.
I have a friend who owns one though and the more I play it, the more I like it.
It's definitely growing on me to the point where I would consider buying one.

If you don't like it, that's cool -but raining crud on a title after playing only one game on it is just pure ignorance.

#39 7 years ago

I like the layout. It is very different from any other machine I have. I like the tight shots. I could see a bad setup on this machine causing lots of grief though. The "just hit left orbit" strategy for tournaments is definitely a rule tweak that needs to be made, I am sure it will get changed. It doesn't really bother me, as I play to try to get to vs modes, get as many heroes active as possible, etc. not to maximize score in a mindless fashion.

I don't get the "barren playfield" complaint. Most of the focus is at the upper part of the playfield, but I personally think Tron looks more barren than Avengers.

I find it ironic that a lot of people slammed Gomez for always doing fan layouts, then he tries something different and other people slam him for doing a unique layout. Can't please everyone I guess.

It is currently my favorite out of my little collection. And before the "that is just because it is the newest" comments, I got Tron about two weeks before I got TAV. Different strokes for different folks.

#40 7 years ago

I read these Avengers threads (and all new games for that matter) looking to see what is going on with the game. I don't have constant access to one and maybe have 30 plays on it (Some pro, some LE) so granted I am somewhat ignorant of the Avengers game. Almost every time I have had access, it has been a multiplayer experience. (Not the best way to get to know a game IMO)

When it, like any pin, first came out of course it was interesting to me since it was new. We were playing in groups, nobody has any real idea what to shoot for, everything is bright and shiny, new sounds are heard, effects etc. My goal was to strafe all the shots to see what each thing does. And of course I wanted to see HULK and Loki multiballs.

But the more I play this game, I keep trying to figure out what is the appeal. When I watch tourney players, the goal seems to be Loki. Period. That is the repeatable shot to go for. I think the LE's crossover ramp helps prevent the left ramp rape-to an extent. Now I think it is fair to point out that in tourneys, better players look for the safe strategies and do not explore the pin.

I understand the build-up hero concept in the game, but it feels like an inordinate (and non-fun) amount of work to hit the same shots over and over and over. Isn't that one of the complaints players have about games in general hit this shot X times and then Y more times for the award?

Again, I should repeat I am not knowledgeable about the Avengers pin to say it is bad, good or otherwise, but I can accurately say it is currently not grabbing me the more I play it.

Maybe if/when I get some more solo time on it, I'll understand it.

#41 7 years ago

Avengers wasn't Stern's best effort. I still think XMen is a better game than AV.
Wondering if Metallica will be great. Got a lot of toys but it is pretty comparable to any other flow game. I do really like the in line drops

#42 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

In all fairness though, I've founds most games improve after I've played them enough to understand the rules and the shots.
After my first game, I would have agreed with your opinion. I didn't like it much either.
I have a friend who owns one though and the more I play it, the more I like it.
It's definitely growing on me to the point where I would consider buying one.
If you don't like it, that's cool -but raining crud on a title after playing only one game on it is just pure ignorance.

I respectfully disagree - only one game has ever been broken the one and done mentality for me. It was LOTR for reasons others are saying about not understanding how to play. Hence not enjoying it, but the game I played was just not fun. Nothing about it said play me again. It was a Hulk LE but could have been set up wrong. I have purchased game, and knew after the first game I made a huge mistake, they never grow on me. I know others like this as well - I think this game falls into the different games for different people, but overall it does not seem to be a huge hit.

#43 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballcorpse:

I understand the build-up hero concept in the game, but it feels like an inordinate (and non-fun) amount of work to hit the same shots over and over and over.

All the modes build up over multiple balls, everything continues, so you can work on what you want, whatever shot is best at that moment.

I've heard about the "Loki all day" thing, but there's no way I'd play a game like that. But I'm not a competition player. but that is also an easy software fix, just like acdc needed tweaking so I'd be surprised if it is not addressed.

#44 7 years ago

Just curious what the ops score was? It takes a few plays to appreciate its difficulty. In tournament its easy enough to hit Hulk to start Multi Ball. A little harder to hit Loki multi-ball. Eve harder to get in the Vs. modes.

#45 7 years ago

How many of you realize that you can change which ramp the ball rolls down to (control a diverter at the top) on the LEs?
It's that sort of thing that adds to the overall long term fun factor in my opinion.
It's NOT something people understand from only 1 game.
This is just one example. I'm not expecting to change anyone's opinion of the game with this simple example.

#46 7 years ago

I love this pin. I don't feel I need to rate it better or worse than Wolverine or ACDC Prem, which are all in my collection. But I find that I play all 3 games all the time, and love each one, as they are all different. The only pins getting ignored in my collection right now are IM and SM.

#47 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

How many of you realize that you can change which ramp the ball rolls down to (control a diverter at the top) on the LEs?It's that sort of thing that adds to the overall long term fun factor in my opinion.It's NOT something people understand from only 1 game.This is just one example. I'm not expecting to change anyone's opinion of the game with this simple example.

Is that controlled diverter idea a new feature? I don't recall that on the LE when I tried it. That being said, if the diverter can feed the ball to the right flipper over and over, doesn't that allow Loki to be accessed over and over much easier like in the pro?

#48 7 years ago

Game is to ropptastic for me.

#49 7 years ago

I agree with pinballcorpse when he says the repetitive shots are just not fun. I think it is a good looking game and I enjoy the layout and tight shots, but the rules are not my cup of tea.

#50 7 years ago

I appreciate the game because of the unique layout. I wish I didn't have to sell mine so fast. I was really into it. It does seem that many are selling them though. I might pick up a blue version again sometime if the prices is right.

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