I am going to make these changes today, sure do appreciate the fact that your sharing this info. I admit I am not at the skill level that I can break down the rules in depth and use strategy for better scores- even after years of playing I still just get warm and fuzzy feelings by looping combo shots. Still, that doesnt mean that I dont want to get further into the game and enjoy everything it has to offer. Thanks for posting SKB.

My main problem with the code is the length and repetitiveness of the Level 1 missions. Shortening those and making the shots more defined (make right orbit shots instead of 4 different shots) would improve the game quite a bit.

This is, sadly, the truth. With the XMEN debacle and initial STLE code drop, I wouldn't even consider buying any Stern, let alone a NIB, without playing it fully and understanding the game completely unless Lyman was on the code. Stern has a problem now, I think. Ops won't care, but the public should. But yet again, if we collector/pinheads keep buying NIB we deserve to be disappointed.

The shots are so excellent - and the rules solid - that I can still enjoy my beloved AVLE after 15 months, but the rudimentary rules on the WIZ mode, combined with ZERO dots is just flat out weak. And the unpolished issues with the rest of the game (no combos, no spinner rules, essentially worthless pops, a couple minor bugs) is inexcusable. The game is also just too damn long, and this is Lonnie's second game in a row burdened with this albatross. Revised code might be able to help this. Lonnie needs to do better.

STLE owners should enjoy the pretty lights for the next year or so, but when the next big code drop comes. It won't have Lyman's name on it, and that sucks for you.

Maybe Stern and Steve will have a point to prove that it is not only Lyman who can code great. So, hoping they are going all out to make it special. In their interests as could sell pro's and premiums for next few years.

I find it hard to believe that there is only one or two people that can code pinball games properly. Sounds like management needs to make it a bigger priority for it to happen (hire more people, devote more resources, etc.)

I know shouldn't be doing this as I'm just fanning flames, and this is veering off topic, but here we go

I can see that. But it hasn't been *just two weeks*. I don't buy games without putting in some hours on them beforehand. I played it at the Hi-Life in Oakland a ton, and put in some quality time on The Dude Abides' ST as well as Mummite's. I don't know why you seem to be going out of your way to somehow "invalidate" my opinion. Maybe they way I'm coming off to you through this message board without any inflection is different than I intended? So let me state this: I'm not trying to be "important", I don't think I'm important, I KNOW I'm not important. I don't expect anyone but myself to agree with my opinions, I don't think I'm better than anyone else, anyone in the hobby that knows me in real life (with context and inflection in what I say) knows I'm a self deprecating and laid back guy. I'm just some idiot that posts on a message board, and I don't intend on climbing to a higher rung than that. But I don't have to be a tournament level player to have an opinion.

If you don't have common sense, then yes. But I have a little common sense, so I'm able to take the data I get from testing and apply it to formulating my own strategies. Not that big of leap. Learning the rules, to me, always goes hand in hand with developing strategy....how could it not? Maybe I'm missing something in your point?

All the testing I've done with the glass off for ST right now has been for my own amusement to make me understand the game and modes better to formulate my own strategy. I haven't done it so I can tell others how to play it, but I do have an opinion. And I haven't even done a "rulesheet" for ST. If you want to go down the XM road, I didn't make that rulesheet(s) so that I can force strategy down people's throat. I did it because a lot about the rules in XM were unknown and I wanted to help owners and players try to understand what they are trying to go for in certain modes better. And from the feedback I got, it seemed pretty successful. I didn't do it because I'm trying to be Bowen. I'll never be Bowen, I can't be Bowen. All rule sheets pale in comparison to Bowen's. No one else was doing an XM rulesheet, so I decided to take initiative and try it. I don't claim that it is a great, or even good rulesheet, but it's there for players to use, should they want. And I have the faith in the players to formulate their own strategies, as I have, from the data I get from testing. Again, this has no relevance to this thread, just to your baffling mounting "crusade" to invalidate my opnion(s). Lighten up, you're taking my opinion(s) too seriously.

How so?

LOL! Where did THAT come from?! Awesome, I'd sure you'd win, great for you. Where did you get the impression I have anything to prove to someone by playing them for money? Haha! I wouldn't play anyone ever for money; I'd lose a ton of cash . For Christi's sake; I play pinball to have fun, not to deal with the drama of someone challenging me to a "pinball fight" to prove a point(?). I have no pride to bait by making such a challenge. Literally made me laugh out loud.

Of course I took the glass off, I'm a shit player, lol. And it's because I'm not a good player that is one of the other reasons why I didnt include any strategies in with my XM rules. I can formulate something that I feel is a good strategy, but I wouldn't tout it as gospel enough to tell everyone else to do it; that's for tournament level players to do. Again, I wasn't trying to create a Bowen-esque rulesheet, I just wanted to help. Fuck me for helping, I guess haha. I love all of Bowen's rulesheets, to think that I could create something on that level is ludicrous, on multiple levels.

A valid point, I apologize, sincerely. But it's not like I snuck in the details of EA or 5YM, I put them under a title labeling what I was going to talk about. If one didn't want to know the details of a given mode, one could see the section title and just move into the next section. But regardless, should I post something of that nature in the future, I will try to be sensitive to that.

EDIT: upon me re-reading through my posts, it occurred to me that I DID discuss the EA and 5YM wizards without a section notice. Not in my initial opinions post, but in a reply post to Eskaybee. Sorry for that, I'll do my best to be more aware.

Here you go assuming, again. For one, I think I'm a just below average player, at best, so I think I'm not a great player either, haha. I do play against players better than me....which is pretty much everyone. I play with Neil when he's at the Hi-Life and I'm there, and I always look to play with people better than me. You're not breaking any news to me. And I agree that it always makes you a better player. But I'm also not TRYING to be a tournament level player. I'll probably never be *that* good. I have no desire to go to all the tournaments, I have nothing to prove to myself or anyone else. I play pinball to have FUN, first and foremost, and then I try to get as high a score as I can while I'm having fun, and fun is subjective. I went to a tournament at the Hi-Life, played with Andreas and Russ, and had fun. Think I finished dead last though, haha. But tournament stuff just isn't why I'm in the hobby. I love playing pinball, but just lack the competitive gene.

Yeah, Patterson isn't the center of anything,lol. But I travel a lot for work, so I go hang and lay at Fattrain's, or go to Mummite's and Zucot's, and Sparky is like 20 mins away from me, so I make due. I haven't contemplated a league just yet because my schedule is erratic and I don't know how "regular" I'd be. I also have crippling social anxiety with people I'm just meeting,lol. I'm very shy and it's always a bug wall to climb over, haha, but that's an issue I need to deal with; I know that others in the hobby are typically very cool and laid back people. I've met very few assholes in the 6 years or so in the hobby, thankfully. Much better asshole ratio in pinball compared to other hobbies

Totally! I missed the CAX seminar with him last year and I was pissed, lol. I didn't think it was going to be in that hall there, haha.

Okay. People other than Phishrace; have I been coming off as a know it all asshole? I'm just baffled as to what I did to get Phishrace all riled up. Did I do something wrong? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

EDIT: and if a HAVE been coming off as a know it all asshole; it was not my intention. Sorry and I'll try to adjust the way I write to reflect as such.

Here's my two cents (from a crappy player - but I love the game) about a minor feature/complaint that I often rant about to myself when playing STLE ... I want Stern to make it so that when I want to know
"WHAT BALL AM I ON????" - I can see it. Currently there are numerous times where no matter what you do (hold either flipper button for instant info) you don't get that info. The game plays SO LONG, that sometimes I actually forget if I'm on ball 2 or ball 3. For God's sake Stern, just put a little digit up in the corner of the DMD letting us know. You can sometimes go for minutes before you can access that info. For me it matters, I'm not nearly as risky with my shots when I'm on ball 3.

Was just thinking this myself the other day.

It's cool man sometimes we all can get into a bit of an exchange when we have a disagreement on the forum. Communicating over text does not always help matters. Sometimes the only thing to do is to agree to disagree and let it go. I bet if you both met in person you'd get along just fine.

Like pinball, we're just killing time...

Your first line in this thread was:

Seeing as how you're in Patterson, I assumed you had only been playing the game for two weeks.

That's awesome. I've played that one too. Were you there for the epic launch party?

While I appreciate your efforts to educate folks, your suggestions for changes don't sound remotely doable. This seems to be a growing problem here on pinside. Everyone thinks they know rules better than the programmers and that a complete rewrite is in order. It's frustrating because the suggestions are often not even vaguely reasonable. For instance, you wanted a mode that only included orbit shots. Virtually every mode currently allows you to combo every shot AND still progress in the mode, but you wanted to change that. It doesn't make sense to me.

To me, learning the rules goes hand in hand with learning the shots as well as developing strategies. I typically don't even read the instruction card on a new game until I've played 50 or more games on it. To me, learning all the rules too early isn't good. Learn the shots, then learn everything else. The way you've written, I can tell you've taken the glass off. Nothing wrong with that, just not as enjoyable to read.

Nothing bad to say about that at all. Nice work. You may not ever become as good of a player as Bowen is, but if you enjoy reading his rulesheets, try writing your rulesheets a little more like he does. It's a better read if it includes strategies and comes more from a player's perspective. Not strictly the rules. By the reaction you've gotten already, it's obvious you did a good job. But you could do better. d

That was my way of saying I'm not convinced you have a good grasp of the game yet.

That's great to hear. Neil is a good friend and one of the best players in the world. I've learned more from him by far than anyone else in the hobby. If Neil says you're okay, you're good with me.

I think the competitive gene helps when you write rulesheets. Just my opinion though. Folks obviously liked your XM rulesheet. Can't argue with that.

Yes. Lots of odd ducks, but very few assholes. We need to meet up some time so I can prove to you I'm more of an odd duck than an asshole. Shoot me a pm if you're coming for sure to PAGG, CAX, or just coming up to play on location. I have games on location in two places in the south bay and would be happy to show you around.

If I butt heads with someone online, then find out later they'll be at a upcoming show or tournament, I'll go out of my way to find them and introduce myself. We're all keyboard commandos here. Online personalities are nothing like real people.

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/blowhard.htm

Beats me! I'll be at PAGG, happy to shake both your hands, all CA love here.

Gotcha' brother, I see where you're coming from on your points now. It's all good, no hard feelings at all. And FWIW, I wasn't calling you an asshole at all, you're not one, I was making a sweeping statement about the hobby.

We'll definitely have to meet up at PAGG and play a game or two or three....or four........

I love Rob; lurk'n and like'n

YES. On top of that, I wish they'd make it clearer who's up in a multiplayer game. Sometimes you drain, it immediately kicks out a ball and starts the missions screen, and if you've got a 4 player game going and people are chilling and not really paying attention to every extra ball etc you can easily get the order boned. My wish is that there was an option for the verbal "player two, player three" etc callout from when you start the game to play at the beginning of every player's turn. Don't even need to change the DMD, just play the callout.

The posts in this thread are so long I thought HOUSE OF PINS was back amoungst us!

rd

Yeah, sorry about that

Progress report after implementing the changes recommended by SKB: I love it. I am getting thru the level 1 missions now much quicker and the call outs are no longer annoying. I just finished a game where I saved Klingon battle for the last level 1 mission, hit multi-ball, fought vengeance and then went right into KM. One helluva game for me. Thanks SKB!

I'm waiting for cliff notes version of this thread!

Here ya go:

Current code is boring.

I for one VERY much appreciate Rcade's efforts and work to explain games and rules. His Xmen rules are the ballz. Helped me appreciate and enjoy the game even more than I did. The last thing Rcade has seemed like in any thread I have read of his is an a-hole.

I have had a chance to play Star Trek LE a fair bit, and while I do like the game, the rules are not quite where they should be.

But one thing that really stood out for me the last time I played it, was its lack of color changing GI lights - they are all white (with the exception of the ones in the back of the playfield that are lit all the time). IMO the color changing GI in games like Xmen, ACDC, and for sure now in Met LE really take the experience to a new level. I love starting sentinals mode in Xmen. Or the ingenious fading to black in Met. At this point, I'd take color changing GI over color changing inserts. Best of both worlds would be both, but if I had to have only one, I'd pick GI.

Agreed 100% on both counts.

Rcades rules contribution to the Xmen thread was 100% win.

Perfect for someone like me who can't be bothered doing all that!

rd.

I felt like the timers for the first missions with the new settings were just a little too short. It felt too much like what you were doing, trying to skip them. Which I get, but it was too much start, shoot a couple shots, oh look, hit Away Team already. Not too bad if you're just drilling down to Levels 2 and 3 really, but a little weird if you're trying to hit the level 1 3 in a rows or complete them.

I ended up putting them back at 25 seconds, but leaving the level 2 and 3s maxed. Maybe even 20 would work.

Really though, they just need to make the rules better and add more sound.

well being a big fan of eskaybee , simply because i liked his avengers videos (should never have sold my avengers) and his opinions on rules seem to equal mine , i changed the features accordingly . i'll see how it goes .

What are your Kobayashi jackpots worth with those short timers?

I was thinking the same thing. I haven't adjusted my settings to Eskaybee's suggestion yet, but I was worried that the KM points would get neutered from the shorter time to accumulate.

But then again; Eskaybee is an awesome player, so he could probably still jam in some really nice scores to bring into KM

good discussion! i got the game knowing the layout was solid and the rules were somewhat unpolished. I enjoyed playing warcraft 3 through its development, and figured it would be interesting to experience something similar on a pinball. I'm anxious to see what they do with the karl urban update, primarily i'd like to see how they balance shot variety with modes and combo excitement build up.
One thing i noticed is the text "unique combo", if they have sounds or callouts to give combo feedback that will be a huge boost to a game that's already pretty intense if you're into it.

I am very disappointed by the game yet ...
tron, xmen, transformers or Lord ... are much better games ... (Gameplay and lights)
I do not like the color ...
(It has just the orange spread during multiball which is cool)

Wrong Thread Man.
This is "Making STLE Star Trek better" Thread not "Do you like STLE?"

Not that I needed confirmation you were a better player than me, but

I changed all timers to 25 seconds and I'm pretty happy with how the game played. A little less lengthy to get through Level I without killing KM scores too much. If I have to replay a certain mode to finish it because I didn't hit the required shots in Levels II and III, so be it.

I think 25 is what I set mine to also after 10 just felt too abrupt.

Hopefully something that compliments the Premium cabinet art, and not the "swooshy" Enterprise translight from the LE.

That's awesome.

Nice to know they are listening.

Post of the year!

Thanks Steve and Eskaybee

Great news! Thank you to everyone who has kept their posts constructive in this thread.

It is easier to promote positive and constructive thinking with a thread title like the one you chose "Making ST better".
Good job!

I LOOOOOOVE YOUUUUU STEEEEVE!!!

*mwah mwah mwaaah*

EDIT: Ritchie, not SKB....aw, hell...we love you too SKB!

Plenty of enjoyment here after reading that!

I spent my lunch break playing Star Trek, and while I'm super excited to see what the team brings to this game still, and don't really disagree with most of the complaints, I have to say, I still enjoy the hell out of shooting it. I bought it with faith that Stern was still going to bring more to the table on this one, and SR's letter is just a little extra reassurance.

Did you edit out the part of the email where he said how disappointed he is in Rob to trying to trade his LE away?

lol

Hey, at least I am holding out for one specific pin. If I don't make that trade, STLE isn't leaving just yet.

Pin has a lot going for it and I still enjoy playing it, just wish the code was better. Sounds like they are pretty committed to doing just that.

I was confident they were, it's why I bought mine instead of waiting, but I'll admit that seeing Ritchie state it so clearly, including really listening to our feedback is super reassuring, even if my faith was strong.

I really like my Premium, if you get a good trade on your LE and want back into the fold later I don't feel like it's settling at all to get one, NIB or HUO, so long as you're not super attached to the extra bling.

Make no mistake, I love the extra bling on the STLE! The lighting on the side rails, and the backlit insignia's on the head are extremely cool in person. My STLE is a real showpiece when it's in attract mode. Friends/guests are all pretty impressed by those flashy lights.

I consider it the best looking pin, overall, that I've owned, largely because of that extra bling.

But the Premium plays exactly like the LE. So from that standpoint, there is zero being given up.

Normally I'd agree with you, they really did hook it up, but I just watched that Monster Bash porno of yours, and so I cannot!

Heheh.

Point (very well) taken!