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(Topic ID: 226507)

Make people sign liability waiver before pinball event at private?


By Whysnow

2 years ago



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    There are 96 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    Curious if anyone that hosts events which are open to the public (competitions or other) if you have ever thought about having people sign a liability waiver.

    I had previously never thought about it, but the reality of the possibility came to mind recently when hearing of a pinballer involved in a slip and fall case at a business.
    Some of us discussed the reality that a similar thing could happen in our private homes when hosting a league event or public pinball gathering and it raised concern of how to properly protect ourselves when hosting events.

    Anyone have any thoughts or experiences with this?

    What would be enough to protect yourself in case something were to happen.

    58
    #2 2 years ago

    What a sad world we live in.

    #3 2 years ago

    Isn't that what your homeowners insurance is for?

    #4 2 years ago

    I put a pool in 2 years ago. I talked to my insurance company, no change needed to my policy other than double checking that I was happy with my total coverage, which i was.

    If you're not going to have waivers for a pool, which is a known deathtrap, then i wouldn't see the point with anything else. Properly protected = home owner insurance.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Some of us discussed the reality that a similar thing could happen in our private homes when hosting a league event or public pinball gathering and it raised concern of how to properly protect ourselves when hosting events.

    You guys talk about some boring shit when you play pinball.

    Waivers don't mean crap if someone wants to sue you. This is what homeowners insurance is for, get an additional umbrella policy if you are really worried about it.

    The best advice is don't serve alcohol and if you are really concerned, don't allow alcohol at all. But then what's the point of having a pinball event?

    #6 2 years ago

    Even if somebody signs a waiver, they can still sue you. You can't waive responsibility. Your best bet is to make sure you have liability cover as a part of your insurance.

    #7 2 years ago

    Liability waivers are useless, they are only to make people “think” they cannot come after you. You can not waive your rights. If you are injured it’s you right to file a claim.

    Your insurance should cover you in this event. It’s silly, but the norm in America is that it is someone else’s fault and your insurance will pay taking full responsibility without a court room.

    #8 2 years ago

    A lot of people are Sue Happy, jumping at any chance. But say you have 10 of your closest friends over. Should be no worry???

    #9 2 years ago

    my kids go to a obstacle course gym. The owner has people sign waivers. I overheard him telling someone once that they only protect him from "poor people" who don't get lawyered up. They think they can't do anything about being injured. But it doesn't stop anyone else from suing him, which he has been. So in a sense the waivers work for him as some protection.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Buzz:

    What a sad world we live in.

    agreed. super sad world, but it definitely gives me pause of inviting people over.

    Good to know that waiver dont mean squat. I have proper home and umbrella.

    I assume that a waiver would help in the case that someone did sue??? Even if they cant waive rights, I would think that would help if a case went to court rather than just settle with insurance?

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from chad:

    A lot of people are Sue Happy, jumping at any chance. But say you have 10 of your closest friends over. Should be no worry???

    I would hope that is the case.

    What triggered the thought more acutely is that we are hosting the IFPA WI SCS/ NACS this upcoming Jan in our home, and some of the people likely coming I dont know and one of them slipped and fell/ suing a business. I think that is completely cut and dry and the business is at fault, but it made me think...

    "what would happen if someone slipped and fell at my house?" "am I covered?" etc...

    #12 2 years ago

    Place cameras as a back up. ?? That way if somebody does injure themselves and they try to hype it up. And being Winter time ...

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    What triggered the thought more acutely is that we are hosting the IFPA WI SCS/ NACS this upcoming Jan in our home, and some of the people likely coming I dont know and one of them slipped and fell/ suing a business.

    I held the MI SCS the past two years at my residence. It was in Feb 2017 and in January in 2018; so plenty of issue with snow and ice. I never really even thought about it but I guess the possibility exists. Not really much you can do if someone decides to sue for wherever reason. I guess make sure you have good insurance and hope for the best.

    #14 2 years ago

    If I thought that I would need to have people sign a waiver at such event I would not hold the event.

    11
    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:I would hope that is the case.
    What triggered the thought more acutely is that we are hosting the IFPA WI SCS/ NACS this upcoming Jan in our home,

    You're lucky I won't be there. Old guy like me...I wouldn't be playing pinball. I'd be looking for that shitty rug to slip on.

    #16 2 years ago

    INSURANCE.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    You're lucky I won't be there. Old guy like me...I wouldn't be playing pinball. I'd be looking for that shitty rug to slip on.

    I don't think Hilton has handicap access at his house for you

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Buzz:

    What a sad world we live in.

    Your post presumes the fact that Hilton lives in the same world as us.

    #19 2 years ago

    The death of common sense and accepting responsibility for our actions is truly terrifying to see unfold on a yearly basis....

    #20 2 years ago

    I don't host pinball events but I was recommended by a good friend that is an attorney to have an umbrella policy on top of my home owners insurance. Surprisingly it's relativity inexpensive. I'm paying $180 annually for a million dollar policy.

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from ibuypinballs:

    I don't host pinball events but I was recommended by a good friend that is an attorney to have an umbrella policy on top of my home owners insurance. Surprisingly it's relativity inexpensive. I'm paying $180 annually for a million dollar policy.

    What does that cover? Just liability in case of injury?
    I host a party once a year where I serve alcohol. I've often wondered about just how "bad" it could be if something tragic happened.

    #22 2 years ago

    My Umbrella policy with State Farm is about $360 annually, but it does reduce the liability cost on our 6 vehicles and house with State Farm. When you have kids in their 20's on your group policy, it saves them "some" change too. It doesn't save us more than it costs, but it's worth looking into in my opinion.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    Liability waivers are useless, they are only to make people “think” they cannot come after you. You can not waive your rights. If you are injured it’s you right to file a claim.

    Assumption of risk is a state by state thing...some states recognize it and some don't. Some states (mostly states with ski resorts and ski rental shops...) have strong assumption of risk protocols.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from tamoore:

    What does that cover? Just liability in case of injury?
    I host a party once a year where I serve alcohol. I've often wondered about just how "bad" it could be if something tragic happened.

    It all depends on how bad the injury is.
    Someone falling down a flight of stairs can get pretty F’Ed up. Slip and falls can be bad too. Insurance and the previously mentioned umbrella policy (it’s not too expensive) and common sense go a long way. Don’t serve alcohol to strangers.
    If you allow BYO monitor strangers consumption. Some people get ALL JACKED UP at pinball events and don’t realize how much they’ve consumed.

    I deal with some property management
    And have seen some amazing claims over the years. One specifically comes to mind. A wedding ended at a place two blocks away from a bar/restaurant I do some work for. Some of the wedding aren’t done partying yet and head to the bar. One stumbly drunken woman misses the step up from the parking lot to the curb falls down and breaks her jaw.
    Even with witnesses that saw her barely able to walk it was a two year battle.
    She sued for $200,000 and noted that she wasn’t able to preform her duties as a wife as part of the lawsuit. Our lawyer said you can always tell the real scum bags cause they add that in.
    Broken jaw =no oral sex for her husband.
    Insurance paid for the legal bills and she ended getting $0 but it was a huge hassle.

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from Fezmid:

    Isn't that what your homeowners insurance is for?

    Homeowners insurance won't cover shit. Maybe $250,000 to $500,000? You'll eat that up fast. You'll want an umbrella policy of at least a million on top of it like mentioned above. You also could consider taking out event insurance for each time you host a tournament. It was like $300 for my wedding so I can't imagine it would be really expensive for an even with less than 50 people.

    #26 2 years ago

    Is Wierdrick playing in WI SCS? You should get plumbing insurance.

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from Friengineer:

    Homeowners insurance won't cover shit. Maybe $250,000 to $500,000?

    Just checked mine and it's $500,000. I also have a personal umbrella....$173 a year.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from Eric_S:

    Is Wierdrick playing in WI SCS? You should get plumbing insurance.

    LMAO good advice!

    #29 2 years ago

    If you are worried, personal umbrella and or a event coverage.

    #30 2 years ago

    I should have them sign a waiver, especially the out of towners, that if they are going to fall thru the screen door, that is on them.

    #31 2 years ago

    This reminds me the lady who hurt her foot in a pothole during the tourney (i think it was pinburhg)??

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from chad:

    This reminds me the lady who hurt her foot in a pothole during the tourney (i think it was pinburhg)??

    Im pretty sure that's what sparked this discussion

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from Eric_S:

    Is Wierdrick playing in WI SCS? You should get plumbing insurance.

    I would think there is a decent chance he defect to WI again.

    He will only be allowed to use the restroom down the street at Cousin's subs. He may be allowed to come to WI, but nothing in the rules says we have to feed him or let him use the shitter

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from chad:

    This reminds me the lady who hurt her foot in a pothole during the tourney (i think it was pinburhg)??

    what end up with that?

    Quoted from Slim64:

    Im pretty sure that's what sparked this discussion

    this was sparked since a local pinballer slipped and fell on a cherry in a produce aisle at a store. Messed up his leg pretty bad and required surgery.

    Prompted the discussion about what would/could happen if the same thing occurred at a private residence from a few of us Wi guys that regularly host events.
    Honestly had never thought about it before, but made me realize that is is a distinct possibility.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    what end up with that?

    this was sparked since a local pinballer slipped and fell on a cherry in a produce aisle at a store. Messed up his leg pretty bad and required surgery.
    Prompted the discussion about what would/could happen if the same thing occurred at a private residence from a few of us Wi guys that regularly host events.
    Honestly had never thought about it before, but made me realize that is is a distinct possibility.

    If you are that concerned, maybe you shouldn't hold any events.

    I will not sign any paper that attempts to waive my right of recovery due to someone's negligence.

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    Just checked mine and it's $500,000. I also have a personal umbrella....$173 a year.

    Does it cover cheese-pump related injuries?

    #37 2 years ago

    I took my kids to a pumpkin patch with a few rides one Halloween. They had everyone signing a waiver prior to entry or they wouldn't let you in. I wrote "refused" on the signature line, the dummies didn't even notice and let us in. I've been doing that since and nobody ever notices.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from rx3:

    I took my kids to a pumpkin patch with a few rides one Halloween. They had everyone signing a waiver prior to entry or they wouldn't let you in. I wrote "refused" on the signature line, the dummies didn't even notice and let us in.

    They probably didn't think you were going to be an asshat.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from tamoore:

    They probably didn't think you were going to be an asshat.

    Thanks! Proud of it too. As already stated, they don't mean shit anyways.

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Honestly had never thought about it before, but made me realize that is is a distinct possibility.

    Happened at one of the model railroad open houses before. Where modelers open up their homes in an area for visitors to drop in. A child hurt an ankle falling down a basement stair.

    Crap happens. You can't be too careful anymore.

    LTG : )

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I should have them sign a waiver, especially the out of towners, that if they are going to fall thru the screen door, that is on them.

    Out of towners?

    How about out of country-ers?!

    #42 2 years ago

    I think a good idea to combat the issue of scammers trying to sue you later is to set up some kind of fund just in case. Like, every tournament you have everyone should throw in an extra dollar...

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    I held the MI SCS the past two years at my residence. It was in Feb 2017 and in January in 2018; so plenty of issue with snow and ice. I never really even thought about it but I guess the possibility exists. Not really much you can do if someone decides to sue for wherever reason. I guess make sure you have good insurance and hope for the best.

    They might think to sue until they realized that they'd no longer be welcome at your place, they would quickly decide they are fine and move on with life.

    Brad

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    If you are that concerned, maybe you shouldn't hold any events.
    I will not sign any paper that attempts to waive my right of recovery due to someone's negligence.

    It is a question worth discussing. Many of us host events, often opening our homes to people we may have never even met or only know from a few meetings or via friends of friends. When doing so there is some inherent risk, a risk I had not really considered before hearing of a legit slip and fall case in a business.

    Also some really good advice in here that a waiver may mean little and insurance combined with an umbrella is likely the best thing to have as a CYA.

    I have done a bit more research and it appears WI has a few cases where the courts have sided on the idea of common sense and assumed responsibility when you are a guest on private property. In other words, in WI a good insurance policy (with umbrella) combined with the state supreme court position that any guest has a certain level of assumed risk/responsibility on a private residence where they are a guest should be plenty in the case something ever happened.

    A waiver may be a smart idea also as it could be helpful to show the risk was at least acknowledged in advance. If that means you are unwilling to attend an event that has a waiver, that is of course your choice.

    I personally have no issue if someone inviting me in for a pinball event had me sign a waiver. Then again, I would never sue someone when I was a guest in their home so I dont have a problem signing away that right.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I personally have no issue if someone inviting me in for a pinball event had me sign a waiver. Then again, I would never sue someone when I was a guest in their home so I dont have a problem signing away that right.

    Sadly, lots of people say that...until something happens on someone else's property that ends up costing you tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket. It may even cause you to not be able to work again.

    It's not that you have anything against the people who own the property, but in a case like that, you'll sue.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    A waiver may be a smart idea also as it could be helpful to show the risk was at least acknowledged in advance. If that means you are unwilling to attend an event that has a waiver, that is of course your choice.

    What if they don't want to sign your waiver? If it's your own event, you can do as you wish. That makes sense.

    If it's associated with an organization like a league or the SCS and there is nothing in the by-laws or articles that state you have the right to refuse admission unless a waiver is signed, then what?

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from rx3:

    I wrote "refused" on the signature line

    Everytime I drop my kids off at something that requires a waiver (trampoline gym etc), I sign with a name Bart Simpson would call Moes with (or even more outlandish). On the occasions where I forget and sign my real name I’m always disappointed for a moment.

    I wrote a co-pay check to my urologist to the payee of: “penis doctor”. Never know if anyone sees them or the bank just processes them through.... (maybe some CPA doing the books will see it one day?)

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Out of towners?

    How about out of country-ers?!

    Them too, but they don't seem as sue happy as many we have here in the good ole US of A.

    #49 2 years ago

    "Skate at your own risk"

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    What if they don't want to sign your waiver? If it's your own event, you can do as you wish. That makes sense.
    If it's associated with an organization like a league or the SCS and there is nothing in the by-laws or articles that state you have the right to refuse admission unless a waiver is signed, then what?

    As far as I know there are no by-laws currently in the madCity Flippers league preventing a host from requiring a waiver. Again, if anyone of our hosts, required it then I would have zero issue signing it.

    For SCS/IFPA events, Josh would have to weigh in, but my guess is that they have zero issue with anyone requiring a waiver to be signed to attend.
    For example, when you went to Pinburgh the past few years, you signed away all sorts of legal things with the purchase of your ticket.
    https://replayfx.org/terms-conditions/

    I assume it is no different for any other IFPA sanctioned event and if you had no trouble signing away that right for pinburgh, then why would it be an issue for an event at a local members private house?

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