Is there not enough threads belly aching about code? I'm pretty sure Stern has got the message. You do have a choice on what pin you buy. Stern does do updates so accept that's how things work. If Stern simplified the rules, modes, and depth then the code would be easier to get solid out of the box. If that was the case, everyone would be belly aching that there is not enough code. The other solution would be to increase the production time for each pin. That would mean higher costs, fewer sales, and then the same belly aching that it takes too long to get a pin out. It doesn't matter who it is - Stern, JJP, DP, or whoever - people are complaining about one thing or another.

I've been following this thread as well as others like it. I get the frustration but all the jokes, rantings, and demands sound more like fanboy tantrums than anything else. I know there are some legitimate bugs and parts of games unused but those are rare from what I can see. Most what I see is people expecting better code, better scoring, and more features for all Stern games made in the past 5 years. Who decides when code is completed or how to define what that means?

I think you are over exaggerating. My whole point was that people are treating an unused insert as a major bug. It's poor designing but not necessarily "broken" code that interrupts the game. There are threads after threads about the broken code in ST. Yet, I have only heard about one bug that interferes with the game. While I am not an advanced player, I have played a ton of games on my ST and had no issues. My old Getaway is full of bugs - weird scoring, multiball on 1 lock, and the game often gets regular multiball mixed up with the wizard mode. I would love code improvements to ST but I don't think the code is at the point where you grab the torches and pitchforks. If the idea is not to preorder a Stern then good. Make sure the game is satisfactory before you buy it. Buying the game and then demanding updates does not make sense to me.

In other words, you bought the game you liked best. I played Metallica and did not care for it. I played ST and loved it. I liked it so much I bought it even though I am not a big Star Trek fan. You expect Stern to say that the code is bad so don't buy their product? That's completely unrealistic. There is no guessing about what a pin looks like or how it plays. Do you buy a car without a test drive or a home without an inspection? There is no gamble unless you preorder sight unseen.

You make it sound like Stern sells games that don't function as a pinball game should. A car that can't drive over 40mph would be obvious. That is why you test drive them and not try to guess whether it can go the speeds you need. If a pin is missing key features you expect then that should be obvious as well. If a pin or a car cannot function as needed, then don't buy it. Using the car analogy again, this whole thread is about people buying a car based on what the salesman says and not from actually test driving the car.

There is a huge difference between something not working and something non-existent. If your car is supposed to have AC and it doesn't work then that is a fault. That is not what we are talking about so c'mon. We are talking about expectations and reality. If you expect certain features then you better make sure they exist before buying a game. IMO, you should judge a game for what it has and not what it does not have. Personally, I don't care if my ST is missing something because I like it as is. If improvements are made in an update then I will be even more pleased.

LOL - exact same thing happened to me, too. I new something was not right with the AC during the test drive but bought the car anyways. My excuse was I needed something quick because the other car was dead and I was in the middle of a move but it was my decision. The AC would work properly if you fiddled with the knobs just right. Eventually it was fixed with software but still unhappy about it.

I still don't think that is a fair analogy. We are talking about missing features, not broken features. If the flippers did not work right or magnet features did not function then that would be an issue. Expecting another multiball mode or some other game play feature is all subjective. Code can always be improved, dots added to display, and features added. At one point is it "complete"?

I think some of you need to take a step back and think before vomiting on your keyboard. I get the frustration but some are taking things way too far. I think it is obvious that operating a profitable pinball manufacturing business in this day and age is difficult. Resources are limited and compromises have to be made. Code can be whatever Stern decides it will be. They decide when code is "complete". Everyone here has their own idea of what is "complete" and it is impossible to satisfy everyone. What we all want is the best game possible. In some cases, the best game possible is how it sits right now. Thus, if you are unhappy with a game in any way or don't want to take the risk then don't buy it. If a title does not sell well, Stern will have to figure out why and do better. That's the only way to go about it.

Unused flashers is hardly a "bug" and definitely not a priority to stop production on new games to address. If Stern puts a giant monkey with a flasher up it's butt in every game and doesn't use it, that's their choice. You can call it a bad choice, a bug, bad business, or whatever. Expectations are just that - expectations. Putting down $8k or $9k for a LE does not grant you those expectations. You buy the product Stern is selling good or bad.

I don't buy a pinball machine because of a "list" written somewhere or a theme. The idea that people would get so bent out of shape over a flasher bulb is beyond me. Trying to compare this to car sold without an engine or such just makes it even more ridiculous. Pinball machines don't have a strict guideline of how they are supposed to be built. We are talking about games. Each game is different and Stern gets to decide how they are built and how they play. Code can be whatever they want it to be and it can change with an update. Would you be upset if Stern added a feature that is not on the list? Of course, not. If you feel they are selling games with false advertising, then by all means talk to a lawyer.

I don't need to get into all this again but I think a lot of people are being unfair. If a good game takes years to develop the code and 3 new games are developed every year, it's obvious that coding games is difficult and some games are not going to get "finished". Demanding that programmers dedicate their entire lives, take time away from family, and make personal sacrifices to deliver code (for a game) to your satisfaction is beyond reasonable. If they don't, then you accuse them of not caring or not being dedicated? That's really insulting if you ask me. How about not buying the d@mn game if you are not satisfied with the code?

No. Stern can produce whatever game they want to in any way they want to. It is your choice on whether to buy one. I just don't understand the concept of buying a game that is not up to par and then getting upset about it. If nobody buys their games, then Stern might change how they produce games.

I think I get what you are saying. I have people over that know nothing about pinball and struggle with fundamentals. Explaining the rules is meaningless because all they are concentrating on is keeping the ball in play. Everything is confusing from ball locks, to bonus multipliers, and modes. Stating that one pin is more confusing than another pin is kind of meaningless with people like that.

People that know a little bit about pinball and play without just hitting both flippers at the same time constantly, should be able to figure out what shots to take based on what is lit. That is pinball 101. ST main criticism is that the rules are too straight forward and all the modes are the same - hit lit ramps. It's a popular game and big success for Stern. Not sure how that all translates to a difficult pin that nobody wants to play.

That makes too much sense. I think the general idea is to buy first and ask questions later.