YES THEY WILL. I was banned twice for posting asking about code.

my exact post the first time I was banned for was just this.

"I just picked up a X-men magneto LE, it's a fantastic game.
Any chance of another code update?"

I was banned and sent an email to Stern asking why.
I was then unbanned.

The last xmen code update came out a week later.

Then before the last ST update I asked about a code update for Star trek. I was banned again.
I didn't bother to email Stern to try to get unbanned as they can now go $@#% themselves.

I am really surprised about the poll attached to this thread.

Because if you type in "code" in the pinside search bar you get almost every thread bitching about sterns code.
And multiple posts in those threads complaining about code as well.
Thats hundreds, if not a few thousand posts, mostly pissed off or sick of waiting, bugs upon release, missing advertised features etc.

So either no one really cares about trying to get stern to change, but likes to whine, bitch, moan and post about it.

Or on the 31st, take 30 seconds out of your day.
Post on social media.

What does it cost you?
Nothing
What will it achieve?
Maybe nothing, maybe something, maybe everything.

At least instead of sitting back and doing nothing,
Something was done/tried by those fed up.

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Even if there are some that are happy with the way Stern releases code.
On the 31st post it on Facebook and twitter.
Let Stern know you support them,

Love them or hate them, post!

Even if code comes out before the 31st.
Dont be complacent. Post your disapproval of waiting so long for something you paid for.

I totally agree.
I had a lot of williams pins. And never had a Stern before. I did not know about their code issues. (Releasing games that are not finished)
I played Star Trek a bunch at an arcade and wanted one.
I knew there was going to be updates as Stern advertised that they were adding speech etc.

I did not know that the updates were going to be whenever they got around to it.
As I never read about the past issues with other titles.

So I purchased my first NIB machine expecting code updates in a timely manner. I guess my expectations were too high. I figured it would be finished in 6-8 months. Considering the hype behind the Star Trek title.
If I would have known I would have waited until it was finished. Not to say its not a good game. I am mosly upset about Sterns lack of support for titles they release.

Star Trek was released. TWD, Mustang, MMR announcement. New building. WWE, Spike, and still waiting.

I think thats the point.
Let potential new customers know that if they buy new. The game may not be done for over a year or longer, or never. If it doesn't sell well.
And thats how Stern operates.

Somehow I think that now that you can't post to Sterns facebook page. This is going to get a lot more attention.

Glad a couple of my friends supported the facebook page. They have pins too, but I know they won't be buying Stern pins NIB after seeing how they operate. And the wait I've had.

Well... George Gomez was on my facebook friends list so I tagged him in one of the #wheresthecode pics.
Hes not on my list anymore. LOL . But at least I know he probably saw it pop on his cell or computer that he was tagged in the pic post.

And that was the point.

Hopefully this can/will get Stern to work harder, get more manpower and care a little more about finishing games sooner after release.

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Releasing unfinished games leads to certain expectations.
Which I understand you are not going to be able to please everyone.
But anything advertised or promised should be there.

If a game is finished you can make an informed purchase.

If not, you are left expecting more.

Stern never says what that more, or what game that is getting it is.

Being left in the dark (for so long) on such a hight ticket item is not a good feeling.

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In an avengers vs IMve post john1210 started he said.

So code is not important when considering a game. Right?

Should I copy and paste the other ones?

Yes it was advertised origionally having 8. It was changed after to give the LE "more features"
All the press releases and web info had 8 listed.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/open-complaint-about-mustang-i-want-the-8-songs-in-the-pro

True. I was just posting the info.
If things change and its told via advertising etc. Thats fine.

But if something works incorrectly or missing that IS advertised thats another thing.
If no explanation is given. Or a future fix announced. Or if it will be implemented or not.
Thats just wrong, and misleading to the consumer.

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We all know to wait, its been said over and over.

NOW. How well a game sells dictates production, and code support.

How long, is long enough? Without any info or communication to customers.

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To Flashinstinct.

That blurb at the bottom of your last picture post.
Where did that come from?

Did Stern honestly say they can not guarantee that they will finish or include advertised features.
Or was that just something you added?

If so. Is that not false advertising?

And also....

Here is an email I dug up from Jody sent Jan 2014 afer I was banned from facebook for asking about xmen code after just purchasing a magneto LE.

I sent an email asking why was my comment deleated. And why was I banned from posting.
Here is the response...

Thanks for the email.  When we return from the holiday I will check with the Facebook admins.  We do not encourage discussions on code updates on our social media. The discussions can spiral out of control.  We have been manufacturing pinball games for almost three decades and have a pretty good idea on how to make and program them.  We do encourage anyone who wants to work in our programming department to apply with our team if they are qualified. Any questions or comments regarding code should be directed to the programming and game development departments.  As the manufacturer we are constantly working on improving and making sure our games are the best they can be. There are updates being worked on for our past three titles. We have no estimated date for when they will be complete.  I hope this helps. Have a great New Year. Please follow up with me late next week after I speak with the admins.

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Program and game developement department.

Nope never ever heard back. And no other info.
My guess is it doesn't exist.
Or would go to a junk mail folder.

Par for the course.

So. This thread is about customers wanting games released with complete code.
And also wanting to ensure future customers know about the code issue before buying.
Also about realistic timeframes for code completion.

Flashinstinct is at least trying to do do something about it.

You obviously don't agree as you post about whiners etc. And keep coming back and posting.
That is your opinion and thats fine. Anyone who reads this thread will know how you feel.

But to keep coming back over and over and insulting those that want a change is redundant.

You don't agree with this thread. We get it.
Move along. There is a drain topic button icon on pinside as well.

Others including my self agree with #wheresthecode.

We voted yes for stern to change.

You obviously vote to keep things as is. And could care less

As for your above opinion, I suggest you follow through.

Now waiting for rebuttal rant, glad you are here, keep it interesting.

The only reason is if you want to be able to pick from 3 machines a year at the pro pricepoint. You have no other choice.

If JJP could start releasing 2 pro priced machines a year. I think Stern would change how they deal with customers, code, quality etc..

Stern knows they have us by the balls.

Just incase anyone cares. Found it kind of ironic. Considering asking questions violates Sterns FB "rules" and prevents you from entering their contests.

Stern is violating Facebooks rules about contests by asking to "Share" to enter contests.
Section E. 3

https://m.facebook.com/page_guidelines.php

^^^^ best one yet! I would say its funny'cuz its true.

But actually its sad 'cuz its true.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/admission-by-silence/

Proof that Stern as a company is guilty as $@#%.
They don't give a damn about anything customer related except the bottom dollar.
Now that they already have owners money. We are at their mercy.

JK, sort of BTW.

I think one of the main problems most people are upset about how ST is being handled is the fact that the Karl urban speech pack update was announced.
It then came out, what was it, 8 months after.
Then within hours a bug thread popped up. As some modes can't be finished under certain circumstances. No tournament mode in menu Etc.
And the asteroids still not working on prem & LE

So 8 months to record and add a speech update and add some new features. Test for bugs
Then a few hours after release. Owners start to notice the mistakes and bugs. ( I thought stern tests for this)
And if you look at the release before that one actually more was added and changed and fixed in the previous update.
Which was only 2 months after release. With less bugs

Then mustang was released
Then IMVE
Then TWD
Then MMr announced
Then the move announced
Then Woah Nellie
Then they are selling mods
Then Spike and WWE

This does not give me much faith that they can produce a final quality code.
As there is far to much on the companys plate now.

8+ months is too long to wait for a bug patch.

I think some are misunderstanding this protest.
Its not that owners are whining and demanding more.

Owners are just fed up with the poor and sloppy code support for the games they paid for.
And the fact that Stern abandons games to move on to the next too quickly.

Great that code is finally coming. Anyone else find it funny that the Star Trek code came out.
Some bugs were noticed after a few hours. And fixed within 24 hrs by Dwight with another small update.

So apparantly Dwight is either superhuman. Or Stern just never gave a $@#% before. As ST 1.5 had a major game stopping bug for almost a year. And it was never addressed, even with a small fix.

1.5-1.6. Mar 3 - 19.
1.60-1.61 24hrs

I think this shows that games probably could be released mostly finished, or very close to complete. With smaller bugs fixes and tweaks later.

To all the posts saying Stern has turned a new leaf regarding code...

I say, nothing has changed. ST still has bugs, TWD, Avengers, ACDC, Xmen are all still incomplete or have bugd.

But I bet it will in a few months when their next game doesn't sell well. And they have to budget for the overhead of their new facility.
Along with WWE sales being extremely low. As well as a few other past pins not being finished and poor sales.

I think the expense of their move and bad sales (due to their own misguided licences and code issues, and customer disappointment)
Are going to come back and bite them in the @$#.

I think collectors and operators are finally starting to realize that they are paying more for a cheaper made product with less features and more code delays than they did a few years ago.

I hope this trend will not continue. If it does, I think Stern saying pinball is making a comeback so lets expand will
Be a huge mistake on their part.

Its unfortunate, but I honestly think Stern as a company is doing more to hurt pinball than to help it (at the moment)
At least in customers and collectors eyes. Most talk, gossip, opinions are all negative currently
A lack of trust that games will get finished, a lack of quality. And a increased price.
Employees calling them out publicly on code.
And customers calling them out on code.

I know people will disagree, and argue that Stern is pinballs greatest asset.
However a lot of owners are finished with how they operate. I talk to a local operator and he will not purchase any new sterns. As he told me " because they are overpriced, constantly breaking cheap pieces of $@#%!. With garbage themes."
Stern has no one to blame for this but themselves.

I knew I would get flack for stating the truth. And my opinion, As I expected on Pinside.

The operator has over 1000 games out on location.

And he says its pretty sad when he has a TWD, ST, Mustang, and Getaway HSII. In the same location.

And the Getaway makes 4 times as much as any of the others.

His statement.
"ST is too hard for any kids to figure out.
TWD, parents wont let their kids play it.
Mustang earns ok, but why did I buy one when Getaway beats the crap out of all of them."
So mustang and TWD are getting moved to see if they will make better money elsewhere

He wont buy a WWE because WWF royal rumble was a bad earner. And the price isn't worth the risk. + he considers it shit.
The 90's williams/ballys earn better than new Sterns. (At least the operatior I know says so) So why risk the money.
Since the price has doubled on Stern pros here in Canada. LOTR when released $3400. WWE pro is now $6800.

I don't blame him. But I do blame Sterns greed. As pins now, have less, but cost more.
Like it or not, its the truth.

So how can a new player make the away team or mission start consistantly. They can't.
3 balls, 3 mode games only. Thats what frustrates them.
Maybe a multiball if they are lucky.

They maybe play 3 games to eventually see all the level one modes.
And think thats all there is. Then move on.

On my ST I explain the rules to my friends who are huge video game players.
They get overloaded. Its too complicated. IM however they all love.
Its easy to see what you need to do. All 6 marks gets jericho.
Hit monger spinners. Hit monger. Hit whiplash, start whiplash. Hit drones star war machine.

Not... 6 modes 3 deep, different rules and shots for each, but wait, there are away team shots on level 1 modes so 6 more modes + 3 levels of medals if you make more shots. But dont finish a mode right away if you a gold. No, 9 is gold. Skill shots, whell hold this hit this. Well there is this too.
Oh yeah photon torpedos. Yeah that extra button.
Oh you need to lock the ball to start the next mode.
Oh yeah the warp ramp hit it 18 times to add a ball and get 2x scoring.
Multiball which one? hit the vengence. Oh now its vengence hurry up.
No you gotto hit it, then hit it again quick.
Klingon multiball. Every shot twice. Then it will move. But to get a really good score you want to stack it with a mode.
Oh you do that by...
Oh you start it by locking 3 balls. No thats the virtual kickback
No those light the torpedos. No thats super ramps.

I think you get the point. Its extremely NOT non pinhead friendly. A few quick games, yes. but to learn pinball and its rules not even close to being friendly.
I love it, and my pinball friends love ST. I think its the best recent game ever made. But my arcade game collector buddies get lost. And don't want to play it.
New players do too.

Thats what my operator friend told me. They try a few times and then dont come back.
It does well in a new location for a couple of weeks then has to be moved to another location.
As it goes stale due to difficulty, not theme.

I agree about the flaw. My friends really want to play pinball and learn its rules. They just turn awsy from ST as its not fair that I know How to exploit points. Stack multiballs with modes. Make away team shots/modes.
They get the lit colors. And vengence. But everything else seems so far out of reach when they see me play they don't want to play again or keep playing.

However, Iron man they love. Even though its so brutal and fast. They feel like they are doing something.
And can either beat me sometimes or just have fun trying to.

But to keep this thread on track.... I still consider ST the greatest unfinished game Stern has released out of its many unfinished games.

I see what the operator means by it being a flash in the pan from location to location.

If I didn't own one I would be playing one on location daily. But one pinhead can not keep a game a float on location either.

For all the posts saying that people are complaining that ST is too complicated...
You are taking things too literally.

Its not too complicated for collectors or pinheads. I think its one of the best recent games. With deep rules.
But for my friends that are not into pinball. ( they Like it, but dont own any) They get lost on what needs to be done to get the higher scores. They think it looks and sounds awesome and are amazed at what it does, watching when I play it.

They gravitate to IM and my pinbot. As they are simple to understand.
No one is complaining that ST is too complex. And needs to be dumbed down.

Just stating the facts that there is so much to do and so many ways to do it that it is hard for new players to grasp.
And no one is saying its a bad thing. If they were more into the rules than just getting hitting the ship. They would like it even more.

The operator I know just doesn't like the fact that he has to keep moving it from location to location so it keeps earning. As it slows down after a bit and the older pins with less difficulty keep earning, or earn more.
He thinks its because of the difficulty it poses to non pinball people.

I am pretty sure Tron is finished. But I dont own one

I DO own an Iron Man and it is good enough to great as is, and what I think is not finished on it is not a dealbreaker But...

It should have an actual skill shot. And super skill shots. It also needs an extra ball setting in the system menu, as it has a cool extra ball animation but all you can set it to in the menu, is extra ball to special.

I know thats not much. But exactly, its not much. So why isnt it there?
Im sure it was thought up, or brought up. But Stern did not care enough to finish it. But did care enough about getting more money. So they released the Vault edition. And even rewrote/ changed the code to add LEds. And the ability to pick leds or incandecents in the code. Along with classic lightshow or VE lightshow.

This, Its good enough attitude. Doesn't fly with me. Tiny things like this could be fixed and added easily.

Making a great game a masterpiece.

I totally agree the game is a complete game. Playable and enjoyable.
But... if they are going to cash in on a vault edition. Why not support or tweek the code for it.

Not saying they have to. But it probably make some feel better that Stern is still supporting past released games that initially had low sales.
And Im sure there was plenty of feedback from tournament play of what could be added/fixed.

Im sure there are lots of things that were planned to go in that got cut/scrapped due to initial low sales.
And Stern moving on to the next title.
The game later then became popular. So Stern rereleased, rewrote the lighting effects in the code. And added the monger chest led in code. Why not a multiball ball search and actual skillshot?

The game is done in Sterns books. Is it the best it could be? No.

I agree this topic should stay about unfinished code.
But I also think Stern should continue to try and make the best product possible.
And as we have seen in the past, poor sales = poor code.
Poor code = poor sales.

IM is a lucky exception. As it is a simple solid game. That became more popular in time.
Which created the demand for a rerun.

ST is a flowy complex/deep game that needs to get its full potential.
Along with every other recent Stern.

Im sure Steve is fighting for ST to be the best it can be.
I just believe Stern as a company will just want to move on.

ST owners and TWD owners have every right to complain.
And keep complaining until the games are finished.

ST is NOT done. No matter how much better people think it is now.
It still has many bugs and things missing.

TWD, well... I feel sorry for those still waiting. It needs code ASAP!

However, I have no problem with other games that still need it getting worked on before ST.

To say that people are happy with how ST is now and its ok if it stayed like it is. They obviously don't care about wanting the best game possible for their money.

Thats crazy talk!

Stern has already stated in response to questions that its getting more updates. When, who knows?
But it will get the final bug fixes etc. Eventually.

So to be happy with it as is, is crazy.
Its NOT done yet. Stern knows it, owners know it. Stern has said so.
To deny the facts is irrational.

Galactic ramps dont score 100% of the time or light.
Galactic spinner doesnt light.
Nero 2 has a timer bug that sometimes makes no shots available to make. And still shows a timer on the DMD. That doest exist. You sometimes can't complete the mode Until you start the mode again after draining.
Sounds missing in animations still. Starting klingon battle 2 right after 1 sometimes no sound fx is played with animation. And playing other modes in order this happens as well.
Klingon multiball causes some wierd issues while in modes. And finishing them. Also shots towards medals are not always regestering during klingon multiball mode stacking.
Sounds are still all over the place volume wise.
+ there is more.

But according to some thats "good enough" as is.... F that. It can, and should be fixed.
And Stern has said they will update again. So saying its ok to leave it is the stupidest thing I'Ve ever heard.

I agree buy when done. EVERYONE GETS THAT! That horse is beaten to death.

ST was my first Stern and NIB purchase. I only ever had williams pins before and did not know about the code issues. Because all I read here on pinside was either Stern fanboys or Williams fanboys argueing on which is better.
So I did not read any deeper into it as the politics of pinside are B.S.

I bought ST oct 2013. It keeps getting better and better but it is NOT finished yet.
EVERYONE including Stern knows it.

This whole code issue, and Pinsides politics has extremely soured me on Stern pins. And soured me about Pinside as of late. I will not be buying right away again. Or maybe never buying another Stern at all. I hate the way they do business. And how they are now expecting more money for less product and quality.

It is just mainly bugs left on ST. I get that.
But if stern says its getting fixes at least I know that Steve wants his game the best it can be.
I agree with that. And thats what I hoped would happen after such a long wait. And promises of greatness.
Maybe it will finally be complete some time this year.

I also hope TWD owners get the game they paid for eventually. Sooner than later.

I got xmen in a trade. It got the last update a week after I traded for it.
I still did not know about the code issues at that point. As I had purchases ST before I traded 2 pins for xmen.
So no, i absoluetly did NOT know about code issues. I read about all the Xmen drama after searching pinside once I had it.

I sold Xmen after a few months of owning it. As it wasnt a keeper for me.
And bought a NIB IMVE, and had $ left over.

So....

Avengers
X-men
ST
TWD
WWE
KISS

all not considered finished at the moment or polished.
And ST, TWD, WWE, and KISS have all been acknowledged that they will be getting more updates officially by STERN at some point.

Did I miss any?

Seems like alot of work left on the table.

Stern just posted what fixes are needed on MET, TWD,KISS, ST, WNBJM. On facebook.

Post your requests or bugs.

Yup. Looks like it was removed.

Way to go Stern. Ask for input on your games.....

Then remove the post after a bunch of people say your games still have issues, and are not as finished as Stern would have hoped people/customers feel they are.

When I checked it looked like around 18 comments mostly praise and a few legimate ones about bugs in games that need fixing/polishing.

Wheres the next code updates. Seems with running past titles and hireing new software staff.
They should be able to finish the past few games.
I would just like the games I paid for, and everyone elses games to be completed. So they can enjoy them to the fullest.
Thats what we paid for, years ago.
Still waiting.

On a side note.

Due to all the recent kiss issues. And a few other machines eg.
Boards, decals, power supplies, SD cards,
Gene head paint jobs.

Wheres the quality?

And before I get flamed for stating the truth.
If this was happening, or happened to you on any other purchased luxury item. It would not be acceptable.
So why do some people on pinside feel that in the world of pinball it is?

Eg. If you buy a new T.V and open it up and the case is scratched/damaged or it wont turn on. Do you wait till the manufacturer sends out a new case to replace the damaged one. Or wait for a board.
Or a software update. So you can use it?

NO. You complain and it gets exchanged/returned. Or you get a rebate if you accept the damaged item. But in the world of pinball just bend over and take it. It may get fixed/replaced eventually with you doing the work.

Or god forbid you state your distaste/experience about it in a pinball forum.

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