Yeah a pinball manufacturer threatening legal action agains people who have actually dropped cash on one of their games is TOTALLY unthinkable; even it has been alleged to happen on occasion...

Honestly, that's what I was thinking too

Let's see... just roll over there little one. No need to sweat that we sold you an incomplete toy for $5-8K... just buy the next one!

The most productive thing to do is sit on your wallet. No more of this "Dream Theme" BS.

Secondary to that, making people aware on social media and in the forums in general is at least better than rewarding bad behaviour.

Honestly, compiling a manifesto of exactly what bugs/code tweaks need to be done for recent releases (last 3-4 years?) and keeping it up to date with dates of most recent code revision etc. seems like it might be an idea.

If the ST potato flashers are still not working in game, that says all you need to say about the level of dedication of Stern as a company to finishing code when they feel they do not have to.

Whining about AC/DC, and WoF, is not productive IMHO for different reasons.

AC/DC is considered a top game, yes it is weird that there are playfield inserts that do nothing, and it SHOULD be fixed, but IF it is great as is I would not want filler modes junking up things just to satisfy them being used. Maybe dream up some cannon modes that would make sense, and fire them off to Stern? Or beter yet create a thread to generate group ideas if you feel passionate about it?

WoF is dead; anybody being a crybaby about buying an unfinished game and using this as an example needs to have a reality check or do more research before buying a game that costs thousands. It is a well known example, it means yes future games such as TWD COULD suffer a similar fate. Deal with it and sit on your wallet, it is not complicated.

I agree, but life is not always fair. I mean we are discussing 8K toys with a few missing animations in a world where people are dying as they don't have access to clean water. It could be said "that's not fair".

The best way to make sure you do not end up at the unfair end of this transaction is to NOT do it until you are happy with the product.

#sitonyourwalletyouspendynumbnut

Agreed to a point, I just try to ground myself in reality when I complain about something. These are toys, not life and death. Life and death problems actually exist in the world.

At the end of the day it is NOT wrong to expect to get what you pay for. But if a person is pissing money away on unfinished crap and crying about it, there are many other uses for that money.

I appreciate the sentiment, but based on my knowledge of SOME pinball collector tastes within a day of posting the source code the "Vanna strips" mode would have been added, and that would go over REAL well with the license owners

Hot or not in one person's opinion, at a resolution of 128x32 it is the thought that counts. And if I thought of it in 5 seconds, I am sure that it just the tip of the iceberg:

NSFW (and not safe for my house IMO ) translite link:
ebay.com link: Wheel of Fortune Pinball Alternate Translite NEW ART With adult versions

So, ~ 40% of the rules are missing 6 months or so after launch? Brilliant

Why people would keep giving their monies over for the next game when the prior one is sitting their incomplete is mind boggling.

Keep up the good job spreading the (unfortunately) pathetic word...

My thoughts exactly, pretty weaksauce line of thinking.

Take your blinders off, not EVERY b/w game is complete/bug free. Cactus canyon? CCC would not have been such a big deal if the game was finished.

Bug free? For STTNG I just found out about a bug in the time rift mode, and I have had the game more than a decade.

Stern has pushed the limits certainly, but I would not be harping particulary hard on games like AC/DC. Yes, some recent releases have been atrociously supported. But as I and others have pointed out, vote with your wallets (I think almost everybody is on board with that).

This movement also will hopefully keep the message up:

your beta unfinished code is costing sales
your beta unfinished code is costing sales
your beta unfinished code is costing sales
your beta unfinished code is costing sales

It is too easy for Stern to say "I guess games X, Y, and Z are duds" rather than "our customers our sick of beta testing our $5-10K toys".

Cue desperate "but what I really meant to say is..." in 3...2...1...

I think some of the sour grapes of people who have games that actually have fairly heavily reworked code at this point is it is hard to come to terms with owning a game that is just not as good as you had hoped.

Easy to brag about how ST (or X-Men or whatever...) will be the best game ever when it is something you are in the honeymoon phase with, and you are looking forward to several code updates. They'll fix ALL the flaws and make it into the next LoTR/SM/MM !

Fast forward a few years and the game is no longer the newest and shiniest, and reality sets in that you own an average-ish game that you paid premium prices for.

For some people that leads to banging relentessly on the code as an escape from dealing with this reality. I am not sure the only thing holding Avengers from being a solid top 10 game is a few bugs. It would be nice if they were fixed, but I would rather they focus on more recent releases given there staff has only finite time to work in a day.

And as always just buy the damn games once they are finished and stop doing this to yourselves!

I don't think it is irrational to want the best game for your money. The fact is not every game is going to be "the best game" though. Even if you endlessly iterate the code.

Yes, as a pinball fan I want every game to be better than it currently is, even if just a bit.

But I don't expect Stern to be endlessly tinkering with the code either years after release.

Their job is to hype a game and get you to buy it. Then do it again in 3-4 months. Your job as a consumer is to not fall for this endless cycle. Don't buy a game on faith that it will be done to your satisfaction. Buy a game that IS ACTUALLY done to your satisfaction. I hear there is more than just the last few years of NIB to pick from when you are a buyer.

I am not talking about just ST; to make it just about ST is irrational

It is more of a philosophy, my philosophy. IF ST gets even better, that is better for me as a pinball fan.

I am grateful. IF Stern does this for every title, so much the better.

But I am not going to be in a situation where I am relying on hope to polish what may end up being a 10K turd. Others like to roll the dice, booey for them.

Honestly, the goofiest thing I have heard is putting yourself in a position where you shell out this much for a toy and *hope* you pick one that is somehow eventually finished to your liking.

Yes, these should be debugged. Yes it is nice if it happens. But I agree with the heart of this movement which is "buy a game with completed code". Anything else is on you after a point for putting hope ahead of your cash and buying a game years(!) before it is supposedly done.

edit: And yes, this sort of discussion is definitely a negative for the hobby. There is no way two hobbiests should really be going for the throat over how big a sin it is that a game might be made better. At the end of the day, we all agree yes it is awesome that good games can be improved.

I think there is just disagreement on how much responsibility rests on the buyer for expecting "too much" or parting with their cash before the product is finished to their liking.

Basically we are 100% in agreement; I am unsurprised. I had the luxury of playing my games for about an hour today (wife and kids out of the house!). They are still fun. Even with the (not completely unfounded) crapfest online of late.