hahahahahahaha! Gave me a good laugh this am. Get the feeling you might be this type - flash forward until you are 99 and on your death bed and still active in pinball and have become a moderator Pinside and .... you are still requesting a WOF update, since Stern never issued a press release specifically calling WOF finished. Unfortunately, Stern won't bother publicly confirming this. Why bother, that ship has sailed? There is no upside to spending any more time on it. When wishing for code, instead think incomplete recent releases and add games still in production. Grab a pinch of recent, out of production titles they might want to rerun. Then forget everything else.

If you want more WOF code, kickstart a programming plus licensing fund ($100k should do the trick). Then use the money raised to contract with Keith to finish the job, and license Stern to have it released. Ambitious plan, I know, but I'll bet you could get her done. Good luck, I am pulling for you.

Not true. Having WOF sitting there half finished is a serious black mark against Stern's reputation which is costing them sales of new games. I for one will not be buying any NIB Sterns (even fully coded VEs) until ALL games are up to date- they've shafted their customers in the past and have made no attempt at restitution. This means Stern are almost certain to never receive a single dollar from me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one reluctant to deal with a company that treats its customers like this. Finishing the code for WOF would be a good business decision and the costs involved could be partially offset by releasing a VE (or even completely offset if the code is good enough).

Hah what about IJ4? Batman dark knight is pretty much at the finish line, to the extent that it needs anything it needs rules for the modes.

But that ship sailed a long time ago. If we're holding that against them, why not indiana Jones? Talk about terrible, half-baked code...

I'll never qualify as a moderator since I've been branded a rule breaker.

Also, I'd never enlist the services of Keith as he's much too busy at JJP.

The best thing about the recent Stern code blitz is.. I reckon they've listened. Pretty obvious we would all prefer more updates, regardless of possible bugs rather than waiting for what always fees like an eternity.

One of the best things of modern pinball is how we can easily update our pins with a memory stick so keep it up Stern. Keep giving us what you've got. We will judge it fairly.

For all the knockers of this thread... whatevs. Happy customers are so much better than cranky customers. They spend more too.

I hope Stern is working on Avengers code like they said on Facebook they were going to do.

Why is AMH listed in a Stern code update thread?

Stern just posted what fixes are needed on MET, TWD,KISS, ST, WNBJM. On facebook.

Post your requests or bugs.

Thumbs down for complaining about acdc code which is generally agreed upon to be a masterpiece

Bdk has rules for the modes. Shoot the lit arrows and complete at the back scoop. Not liking the simplicity of a rule set doesn't make it incomplete.

The latest post I see on the page is just a signed KISS instruction card from 2 hours ago.

I saw it before. It looks like it was taken down.

Yup. Looks like it was removed.

Way to go Stern. Ask for input on your games.....

Then remove the post after a bunch of people say your games still have issues, and are not as finished as Stern would have hoped people/customers feel they are.

When I checked it looked like around 18 comments mostly praise and a few legimate ones about bugs in games that need fixing/polishing.

Yep, I posted a legitimate one for MET saying that in radio mode it would be good to have it play in a loop, not just one song and finish to silence....all gone now!!!

Damn!

Well you should at least agree that asking for a new feature in the juke box mode is not completely on topic for identifying bugs that need to be fixed.

sounds like the jjp page

Wheres the next code updates. Seems with running past titles and hireing new software staff.
They should be able to finish the past few games.
I would just like the games I paid for, and everyone elses games to be completed. So they can enjoy them to the fullest.
Thats what we paid for, years ago.
Still waiting.

On a side note.

Due to all the recent kiss issues. And a few other machines eg.
Boards, decals, power supplies, SD cards,
Gene head paint jobs.

Wheres the quality?

And before I get flamed for stating the truth.
If this was happening, or happened to you on any other purchased luxury item. It would not be acceptable.
So why do some people on pinside feel that in the world of pinball it is?

Eg. If you buy a new T.V and open it up and the case is scratched/damaged or it wont turn on. Do you wait till the manufacturer sends out a new case to replace the damaged one. Or wait for a board.
Or a software update. So you can use it?

NO. You complain and it gets exchanged/returned. Or you get a rebate if you accept the damaged item. But in the world of pinball just bend over and take it. It may get fixed/replaced eventually with you doing the work.

Or god forbid you state your distaste/experience about it in a pinball forum.

Quite a lot. Stern avengers code is actually pretty good. Since you're not an owner of the game (I am) let's agree that you're the wrong person to judge here. A couple super small issues like a thor flasher didn't make for a catastrophe or "Swiss cheese".

I recently got blocked from posting on Stern facebook for writing a tongue in cheek comment about completed code. It seems like some things never change with Stern as they continue to be indifferent towards their customers about code. You can have an opinion as long as it isn't negative towards them, even with just cause.

Hey Jared, how about un-blocking me please. I'm a paying customer and bought 5 new games in the past 18 months. I'll refrain from code comments since it's obviously a pretty fruitless endeavor to pursue.

Rob Ganshorn

I like this guy!

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GoT is how Stern game releases should be. Great code to begin with and communication on what is coming.

Rob

At least Avengers code update came out.

#WheresTheCode stern?
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so with the release of AC/DC Stern Pinball Arcade, Stern MUST have renewed the licence.
In other words: the bs about beeing unable to finish or release the code because licensing issues is no longer valid.

That is BS. Basic rule updates don't require licensing approval anyway. The real reason an accident update isn't out is because one is not needed and the game is already long completed. Let's try to focus on the games that actually need an update so that we don't sound like a bunch of random noise here.

Except it still hasn't come. At least it coincides with sterns consistent code update timelines....1, 2, 3 + years later

ok, so please tell me the rules regarding the "cannon" inserts.
maybe i overlooked something.

Get over it, lots of other Stern games that need to come to the same level of completeness as ACDC, and maybe then it can be adressed.

Or okay; there is only one cannon rule, and that is that there is no rule! =)

This has been beat to death elsewhere. Rather than code to Steve's vision, Lyman took liberties and made a fun game that involved concepts Steve never dreamed of. Otherwise you would see a vip pass insert. Steve's vision of the rules were pretty boring and were listed in the first acdc video where he goes over that each song has you repeatedly bashing an area of the game. Lyman ditched all that and made something magical.

The Canon inserts were deemed unimportant and therefore do very little. The rules behind them is in place, however so you can't say they do nothing. Light fire and the top insert flashes. Cash in the Canon Jackpot and the top insert goes solid. Repeat for the other 2 and get all 3 lit.

If you're going to be complaining about acdc code, which is a work of art, then you are deemed impossible to please and should be ignored as the boy who cried wolf.

I assume because fix one bug/implement a feature and that introduces the possibility of 20 more bugs/unforeseen stuff that can happen and interact and make strange things happen So those three days suddenly turns into more cycles of release and fix more bugs. Just a guess

Complaints like this, calling the designers and company lazy and making excuses just for not making the rules of a game 100% the way a few people want, are unproductive. Armchair quarterbacking playfield rules and design is good fodder for conversation, and can lead to constructive criticism that devs might see and think on, but sometimes the sense of entitlement gets out of hand imo.

Given AC/DCs great ruleset, even mentioning it in this thread causes a loss in credibility. I agree incomplete code is a problem on some Sterns, not this one.

You are being inconsistent. You admit the insert does something (lights in responses to things going on in the game), and you wish there was a mode behind it, but now it does nothing again? Just because cannon inserts don't do what you want them to do does not mean the game is unfinished. I get you are on a crusade, and I agree with your general sentiment around Stern doing better with code releases, but banging the drum on AC/DC is splitting hairs and distracting from real code problems on other games imo.

Personally I hope Lyman does do another AC/DC update, new stuff is awesome. And who knows, maybe he agrees and wants to add something more to cannons, but for me it will just be a nice bonus to an already awesome game, not something that he owes and needs to make up for.

Stern was better for awhile on code updates but that train seems to have left the station. Not a peep on a GoT update at all.

Agreed. I wish I knew what the problem was. If it is strictly a resourcing thing then it is just a waiting game unless they decide to add more resources. If it is a symptom of the people in charge just not thinking code on older games is a priority and we won't ever see updates for some of these then that is a bigger issue that might not ever be solved.

They seemed to be better on code when this thread was hot early on. Seems to be less push from Pinside now in regards to code updates even though there are game specific threads calling for it. It's a piss off for sure as a KISS owner here.

Yep, we got loud and they responded. We've gone quiet and they stopped updating code. Seems like cause and effect twice applied...

With all due respect, people like you and Markmon are the reason Stern has a lackadaisical attitude towards finishing their games. AC/DC is a rad game for sure, but it is INCOMPLETE. Perhaps not to the same extent that other Stern games are, but that's not the point. Releasing Stern of all culpability because the game is excellent regardless of the code status emboldens Stern to keep doing what they've been doing.

Absolutly. Stern reads people like Markmon saying Iron Man doesn't need a real skill shot, or extra ball, or adjustable settings for drone hits to make DoD Multiball more attainable for those who like to see it and it interferes with the rest of us making our case.

Stern feels they don't need to deliver finished code on games because we are happy with what we got. In my veiw, just because a game is great (like Iron Man) doesn't mean it doesn't deserve some final polish.

Personally I don't think we will see the code for Game of Thrones or Ghostbusters expand much beyond bug fixes and minor tweaks. Why? Stern said they want to release games that are more software complete at launch going forward and that started with GOT. 6 months went by without a code update for Ghostbusters and then one was released with some bug fixes and another video mode...

I think Stern's new direction with code means that games won't be as deep, won't have as many unique rules and that they won't envelop the player as well as previous games have in the themes world. Expect to see more "super loops", "super ramps" and "super bumpers" type modes versus modes that are layered with multiple stages and work the entire playfield. I hope I'm wrong but its just the feeling I have with how Stern has handled code support recently.

Stern has talented programmers but they are simply not given enough time to work on games before they are rushed off to the next project. Sadly Stern management doesn't realize that better code support to create a deep and unique gameplay experience can result in more sales for a title and for future titles down the road.

The only time Stern seems to put emphasis on getting a code update out is when one is needed to enable support for their $400-$500 toppers...

The whole point of my posts, if you bothered to read them, is that "finished" is a matter of opinion. Putting "incomplete" in all caps doesn't make it a fact. The cannon inserts do things, as pointed out over and over again, just not what some people seem to want them to do. So, in my opinion, it is complete.

Not going to say otherwise just in case Stern looks at my post and says "paul_8788 says AC/DC is fine, whew thats a relief, no AC/DC updates needed!!"

In my experience developing software, it is not that simple. Everyone has an opinion. At the end of the day all you can do is gather feedback and then decide what to do with it. Depends on how many people want changes, the severity/importance of the changes, what the designer/developer thinks about it and the time constraints involved.

Then you add all the other games they have in development and are shipping that need large amounts of work, and it is pretty easy to look at a game like Iron Man or AC/DC, which are pretty universally praised, and put any further work on those on back burner.

Because there is no gap and nothing is needed to be done here. As I listed above the inserts do something already. It's not for us to say they should do more. Perhaps Lyman had other code he wishes he could do for the game but it's not even related to those inserts. People that can't stop focusing on those inserts need to go see a doctor for their ocd.

I think it's silly to think pinside.com or this thread has any impact on what stern is doing. It's more likely this thread gets hot in reaction to what's stern is or isn't doing and when a code update drops for something this thread calms down.

You're not asking for final polish. You're asking for rule changes on a 6 year old game that the developers like the rules the way they are - as do other people. In a perfect world I guess stern would spend a year coding every feature every person asks for making them all options. But that's ridiculous.

It is ridiculous to think anything I say here has any impact on what stern is doing or not doing. I agree they have major code problems. I don't think it's the catastrophe most here think it is. Acdc is long done and is time to move on. B/W never released even one game with the code quality of Acdc. Most other games are finished and maybe have a couple bugs to work through.