While I agree with the word "rediculous", I suggest changing it to "premium" or something that could not be considered inflamatory.

You mno what would be great is to have cards for each game that has some fun graphic on one side and then a list of missing features on the other. keep a few cards near each machine and anyone interested could be more informed (players and possible buyers)

^Best post is this thread^

However this is the sort of nonsense that keeps me from joining this effort
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WHY ON EARTH DO YOU PAY "RIDICULOUS" PRICES FOR A FREAKING TOY??!!?? Doesn't it strike you as a bit crazy?? Jeeebus people these machines aren't saving lives they are for entertainment. If you think the price is ridiculous DON'T PAY IT. I realize that means you won't have a pinball machine but maybe your lives will be better for it because it will remove what appears to be a tremendous amount of stress.

Maybe change the term to "as enthusiasts we pay a premium for these toys"

Again, thanks for all the work

Another Stern employee...
LOL
People aren't stressed out, but we are tired of the poor software.
If I had an issue with my car, I would approach the dealer for a fix.
LE has features that do absolutely nothing.
Stern doesn't communicate anything to us, thus we are getting more vocal.
I am not stressed about the code, but we want it fixed.
You have your opinion, and a lot of us have our opinions.
If you like crappy software, you can be silent, and accept the poor service.
Most people are tired of the situation, and we are going to fight back.
Customers deserve to be heard when there are issues with a product.

You guys need to take the weekend off. Your blood pressure will thank you for it.

LOL
I am not stressed.
I am rallying our cause.
It feels good to help pin people like ourselves fight for good code.

Still says ridiculous prices...?

Yes, correct. Although now "toy" should be "toys."

My bad I assumed "really upset" = stress

That is a shame but wait a sec... how do you know, did you PLAY an LE?? Aren't those an "investment" and supposed to sit the box for a couple years before being resold ??

You know what the word assume means.
You make an ass out of yourself.
My LE is setup in my gameroom, and it gets played, thus missing features are noticeable.
You like crappy code, thus you don't have a problem.
If you don't like our thread, don't read it.
We aren't putting up with crappy code.

...and if all games had finished code like AC/DC, this thread wouldn't exist!

Gary owns the company, and doesn't have a clue how to increase code development.
That is BS...
He can have a meeting with his management, and request development, timelines, and communication for software updates.
He doesn't request updates because he doesn't want to spend money making the pins better.
He has our money, and doesn't care about the customers.
Stop making excuses for Gary...

Thanks for all your hard work!!!
There are a few people that disagree with our movement, but there is a large group tired of the shenanigans, and wants completed code and promised features.
No one is going to keep us silent.

Sit down and have a drink with Gary.

It won't take long to discover that he is a gentleman from a bygone era.

Mention CNC techniques for faster playfield production, or software networking ideas, and he is blank.

It's like asking the Queen of England about Britain's GDP, she'll probably not be able to tell you much.

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Why is everyone always comparing Gary to the Queen of England?

They are both the same age.

Because when they walk they both have that John Wayne swagger.

I didn't say Gary knows about computers, but he has an IT manager who handles those issues.
CEOs play golf and drink fine wine, but they hire managers to deal with problems.
I am sure Gary is aware of the code problems, thus he would have a meeting with his IT manager to fix the problems.
He would delegate the software problem to his IT department.
He would hold them accountable for fixing the problems.
If they don't perform their jobs, he can find other people who can fix the problems.
He doesn't have to be a software expert to request updates from his IT folks.
The problem is his lack of trying to fix the problem.
He takes our money, and doesn't care about customer issues.
He doesn't need computer skills.
He needs good leadership skills to drive action into his company.
If he doesn't step up to the plate, his company will go under.
Poor leadership has destroyed a lot of companies.

I really like what you guys are doing, keep it up!

Gary Stern please listen to these people, your pinball manufacturing company is currently the best out there, but there are others wanting to get in on the action. Jersey Jack, Heighway and others will threaten that position in the future.

Isn't it time to step up the game by finishing the code on these machines, cementing them as classics in the minds of many - this will do so much good for the long term reputation of Stern. Think about the future...

(by the way I'm waiting to purchase either ST or TWD premium, but I don't want a game with unfinished code)

At least you will have JJP, and get a new title every 3 years.

Pinball will survive!!!!!!

I don't think he wants to, hell a decal "upgrade" is almost 10% of the cost of a pro.

I don't want JJP.
I want completed code for Star Trek.
If he can't hold his people accountable for fixing problems, the customers will show their voice.
We vote with dollars, and can demand better service.
If we give him enough heat, he might be forced to serve us better.
I have a multi-thousand dollar pin, and will not let him off the hook for code.

Just don't buy any new pins - UNLESS the code is done enough for your liking.

No sense bitching, crying and menstruating about unfinished code; it happens with EVERY game from both JJP and Stern.

You have plenty of other games to play - play them.

After 3 years, if a game has final code, and you like the final code, then buy it.

My other 2 pins are older games.
Star Trek is the only NIB game I own in my collection.
I refuse to buy NIB anymore, and won't buy another Stern until they have better software support.
I would like to trade Star Trek, but I will lose money on the deal, plus older pins like Twilight Zone have reached an extreme high.
I won't sell the pin, but I will continue pressuring Stern to finish their product.

oh zing what will be next ..."I'm rubber you are glue..."?
But let us go back to your original "people are really upset" ... why? I can agree with dissatisfaction in the product but if people are getting "really upset" over a missing feature on a game they need to rethink their priorities. I would be dissatisfied if I had missing features BUT I would not say that the "code is bad" ... it is incomplete and I believe there is a BIG difference and frankly

I don't like crappy code. I do software acceptance testing for my company and I understand the difference between BAD code and MISSING code. I can't accept bad code, meaning the software is incorrectly expressing the required criteria resulting in glitches or bad data etc. I have seen examples of that in the Stern code threads and I believe Stern should take swift action to solve them.
I also see examples of what appears to be missing portions of code where criteria is not being expressed at all, frankly I have less issue with this (but I don't have that experience on my machine) If Stern is interested in having completely satisfied customers then it should be corrected.
Reading through all the different code threads there are real bugs, there are features that are not implemented and there are people complaining about things that don't meet the owners expectation but work EXACTLY the way they were designed .... then all of those things are called "BAD CODE" yet you want Stern to try and sort through all of it... good luck with that, I can see why nothing appears to be getting done.
Oh by the way, they have the power to change their mind and from their point of view you were warned
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So go ahead and wear your shirts and make your memes but I don't think it will get you what you need.

I love this thread

TZ got a boost because 7 years later, Ted Estes wrote a mega software release for the game (on his own time).

It added a bunch of new features (like pause and mute), fixed some bugs (and introduced lots of new ones), it really made the game!

Stern is working on new ST code now.

I love that pause feature pure genuis

There should be nothing to sort through. Even with the most rigorous quality control and testing, a few bugs will always slip through the net. This is understandable and yes, these bugs should be fixed ASAP. What is completely unacceptable is Stern making a decision about whether to prioritise bugs or missing features because there SHOULD BE NO missing features when the game is sold. If there are inserts or flashers which do not interact with the gameplay or modes which don't actually do anything, then the game is simply half-finished and not ready for market.

If they release before the TPF, it's going to make it seem like this thread worked.

I'm sure they are working on WOF, Avatar, and Avengers too.
IIRC if they "claim" they are working on it - Their track record is HORRIBLE.

BTW: Someone one told me that the programmers are almost immediately pulled off of current projects and put on the new projects. As soon as they have a manufaturable codebase; they are moved to the new projects in the pipeline.

Stern doesn't actually give the developers any time to complete the code or do bug fixes. Any fixes/improvements are done at the developer's expense as an "after hours" / "home" project.

That behavior would certainly explain why they situation is as it is today. With WWE in manufacturing and critical bug fixes - I suspect the WWE developer are now working on the next titles.

What about the "warning lights" on my BMW dash that don't actually do anything?

They light up briefly when you start the car, but they are not in the manual, and the dealer says they are "not activated".

Those are usually generic instrument cluster panels that are used in multiple models on the car (my truck has an unused light for 4x4 but it is only a 2 wheel drive). The pinball equivalent would be unused transistors on the driver board, and not unused inserts or flashlamps on a very game specific piece like the playfield.

Even less sense in defending it.
And everyone knows if there is any controversy on Pinside, Vid1900 will certainly be carrying a big stick one way or another.

As I pointed out the Stern flyer states "Game subject to change" ...Stern may feel that they have changed the game and nothing is missing. Hard to know because I have never seen any sort of response from Stern sent to an individual who asked about a missing feature ... I wonder how many owners actually try and how many just whine here.
What are "modes which don't actually do anything" ... that is VERY subjective. I guess I am supposed to have some sort of outrage that my AC/DC "Cannon Modes" don't do anything but I can't find anything that tells me WHAT that would be. So I guess I should tell myself a story (or let someone here tell me) and believe that there MUST be more but it just doesn't work because of "bad code"... sorry life is too short for me to get upset over a silly thing like that.

So true ...every time somebody brings up a car I want to point out the same thing. If you pull out the instrument cluster on most European cars and shine a light from the backside there a several warning or lighted symbols for options that will show up in the panel but have no bulb or wiring ... doesn't mean the owner was cheated.
I have wiring with plugs going nowhere in my AC/DC ... OMG am I being cheated ... did they leave out something?

Steve Ritchie just asked Keith Elwin to be a beta code tester for the new Star Trek code 5 hrs ago.
At least we know things are moving forward.

I think one of the main problems most people are upset about how ST is being handled is the fact that the Karl urban speech pack update was announced.
It then came out, what was it, 8 months after.
Then within hours a bug thread popped up. As some modes can't be finished under certain circumstances. No tournament mode in menu Etc.
And the asteroids still not working on prem & LE

So 8 months to record and add a speech update and add some new features. Test for bugs
Then a few hours after release. Owners start to notice the mistakes and bugs. ( I thought stern tests for this)
And if you look at the release before that one actually more was added and changed and fixed in the previous update.
Which was only 2 months after release. With less bugs

Then mustang was released
Then IMVE
Then TWD
Then MMr announced
Then the move announced
Then Woah Nellie
Then they are selling mods
Then Spike and WWE

This does not give me much faith that they can produce a final quality code.
As there is far to much on the companys plate now.

8+ months is too long to wait for a bug patch.

I think some are misunderstanding this protest.
Its not that owners are whining and demanding more.

Owners are just fed up with the poor and sloppy code support for the games they paid for.
And the fact that Stern abandons games to move on to the next too quickly.

Hey pinworthy,
We are trying to bring change to the code shenanigans.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained...
You have been complaining about this movement in every message.
What are you doing?
Bitching and whining...
How does this movement affect you personally unless you are a Stern employee?
As far as a car, it is an example of a product.
We could use the mythical accounting unit - widget...
I think you are a Stern lawyer because you constantly bring up the fine print.
Stern should want their games to be top notch, and give customers updates.
New Flash:
The current code is filled with bugs, thus the code is crap.
Have you seen the bug thread on Pinside supplied by customers...
You have a problem with assuming, but my group isn't the asses.
You are wrong about a lot of things.
You sound like a Stern fanboy that must be butt hurt.
I have emailed and called Stern, and either I get no answer or a generic BS answer.
You need to do your homework before shooting your mouth off on this thread.
At least we are trying to make a difference unlike you.
You like to bitch about us, and I have some cheese to go along with your whine.

I hope this news is true, and the news is positive for Star Trek owners.

This is 100% true.
I am friends with Keith Elwin and Steve Ritchie.
Steve said he wants Star Trek to be Tournament worthy again and knows that Keith can help.
Keith says he will get started on it after PAPA.

Here is a screenshot for any doubters out there.

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