It starts to look like that Stern holds on to a ''we wont give in'' attitude. The more we shout for updates, the longer they hold them off. Their message is "customers, listen, you do not decide when we release code updates, we do"
Ok, fine..good to know.

Folks, keep in mind that it is not just copyright law at work here, there are also trademark concerns. Fair use is part of copyright statute, but trademark isn't as forgiving. I'm glad Robin has communicated our frustration to Stern, but will it do any good? If they won't even fix the STLE laser bug for almost half a year? Regardless, if you want Stern's attention, better to get it at pinball shows, not here.

No, that doesn't help either... I had that opportunity twice, yes they and SR admit that there is still a lot to improve in the code but now 6 months later still nothing has happened.

No, I mean wearing shirts and such that advertise Stern's bad practices. If the "reputation" starts to get more mainstream, it may have an effect. Eventually, enough people will stop buying games early and Stern can refocus on quality. Because really, that's what this is about - lack of quality in software.

16 people at a pinball show is not "mainstream"

yes, mainly..although after less then 1,5 years of having my STLE at home, it starts falling apart as well, display defect, punchbutton defect, optos not workin properly.. but Ok, thats a different story, but it adds up to the frustration of not beeing able to enjoy this expensive toy for what it was meant for.

I am done after WWE LE if they dont get the code done

The last game they did with great code was mustang but that took a long time for them to finish but they stuck with it

Well I'm sure every movement in the world started with 100 or 1,000 or 1,000,000 people being involved from the start. NO, doesn't work that way

Most things have to start smaller and grow from there. This is a good start and hopefully it grows from there.

My personal example is I chose not to buy the last 3 Sterns NIB(I almost certainly would have bought 2 of them if I wasn't sick of Stern code issues and getting burned repeatedly) and I had bought the previous 5 before that. I got sick of code issues and Stern lost my business for now. Me buying someone elses game down the road does not benefit Stern's sales of that game, they lost business. In addition I talked 2 friends out of buying a NIB Stern that they wanted and one purchase some B/W games instead and another bought an older Stern game with code done. To say Stern doesn't care and it doesn't matter is BS, they will feel it eventually cause I guarantee there are many like me and it will only grow if they don't get their shit together. That is not even mentioning that other/new manufacturers are releasing games this year which further cuts into their market. Stern will feel it and better hear it.

I applaud any and all efforts to get their attention no matter how big or small.

new tshirt ordered.

I like the new yet simple design.

Can you post a link to the new shirt Whysnow?

We don't want the link to the shirt on Pinside. if you are interested in it, I'd suggest PMing someone.

PM sent.

Also, for anyone that bought the old design those were CLed. I never got a notice from the company but I went to the site and it shows it was closed. Just a FYI so you can order the new one if you still wanted one.

Actually, it's been almost a full year. V1.5 was released on 4-6-14. Simply inexcusable.

So 330 days x 800 LEs times God-knows how many Klingon multiballs played since then... assuming the laser fails to shut off after around half of those.. that's a whole lotta unnecessary wear and tear on the laser assemblies, not to mention the fact it basically SPOILS THE ONE COOL EXCLUSIVE ITEM IN THE LE THAT CURRENTLY WORKS AT ALL! For a freakin YEAR!

Yea Stern, you suck. I guess I could install the older version, but that one sucks in different ways.

Robin, feel free to forward to Gary, Steve and anyone else over there who will listen.

Stern reads pinside... daily. I know this for a fact.

Who told you that?

1.5 was released on August 29th.

The date on Stern's webpage is incorrect.

There's more than that LE exclusive that's boned. I never saw that laser bug on my game - but I had the somehow exclusive to LE "press the flipper button to destroy Vengeance 2 & 3 during the mode intro" bug....and of course, the Prem/LE asteroid/sling/backbox flashers that do nothing & the apron lights that do nothing.

I understand that they're trying to tweak gameplay stuff to appease the tournament players....but the feature and bugs should have been fixed already with their own priority update FIRST. It should not take over a year to fix these things!!!!

The guy at Stern who reads Pinside daily, lol. They see all... know all.

You only think they aren't listening based on actions... "there is no new code, they must not know we want it!" but they see everything... read it...

Now... I do not know if they take it into consideration or not...

But I know that someone on the stern payroll visits this forum (didn't say if it was as a guest or with a troll account) and reads.

I guess that's good...

Not exclusive to the LE. Premium has laser too.

Robin, I agree this thread has put you in a tough spot, and I don't blame you for your actions under the circumstances. I just can't stress this enough: don't underestimate your clout with them...

Stern doesn't pay your salary, they only pay someone to moderate their own Facebook page. Members don't pay fees for moderation here and as such you can't be held accountable for anything posted here (which you would be wise to place in a TOS). The only expectation is that inflammatory personal attacks are handled, but the rest of the message flow should remain free in order for Pinside to retain the organic value it has built over the years, as it is impossible for you to keep up with the message volume.

As a result Pinside currently stands as the communication medium for the world-wide pinball industry. All industry announcements are heard here first. The lion's share vendor/customer communications and support is here (until they get overloaded, then vendors huddle into their own private customer forums). The benefit you ultimately provide to Stern itself for product support and communications is incalculable, and you charge them nothing for it. For comparison, how are Stern's product forums doing compared to Pinside? You have to stress to them that this is an open forum, the benefit to them as an open forum outweighs the negatives. In fact the potential backlash from censoring Pinside on their behalf would result in irreparable damage to Stern's brand, and Pinside itself.

I received a notice from teespring, saying that they were looking into IP infringement, and that my order has been suspended. If after investigation, the campaign is not suspended, my order will be filled as planned.

That was the last notice I received, which was at 9 pm EST. I was also told that I would be notified of what ever the outcome was.

There are definitely a couple of Stern troll accounts on Pinside but I am not mentioning any names.

quite obvious as they don't hide it as well as they think.

OK, now I'm curious!

I wouldn't know what names to mention, only that they exist. If you meet the guys from Stern at any pinball show they wont even deny it. Come on, no-one really thinks that the #1 pinball company would not read the #1 pinball website?

Well then we need to make sure this topic STAYS on the 1st page until something starts to change......no matter how long that takes.

Should be simple enough; look how long that stupid Lionman thread has stayed alive!

Well "troll accounts" makes it sound like Stern employees are paid to post nefariously, presumably to trash their competitors and/or boost up Stern's products (without acknowledging their bias). If they're just hanging out and reading what people have to say about Stern, what's there to talk about?

I totally understand why the original shirt designs were removed, and that was totally the right move after Stern requested it since it was using their logo. However, the new ones aren't, are they? I don't understand how a charity T-shirt link (if not violating IP or other things) is an issue other than for Stern (and it wouldn't be an issue for Stern if they would finish things).

My understanding was that the accounts are never used to post, only to read.

...and I think Stern, JJP, etc, should contribute to this site...

So over a thousand broken games instead of 800. Great job Stern. How about spending less time nickel-and-diming the BOM to death, and instead go back and fix these $7000-$8000 machines?

Which would be completely unobjectionable, I would think. But it seems like DCFAN and Whysnow have something much more aggressive in mind, which is why I'm curious to know more!

That should be no problem. Just look at the post count in this thread that so many people thought was rediculous when it started. It has been on page 1 the majority of the time already.
Stern still holds the power to make it go away. If they would only wake up and smell the coffee.
I'm not saying they have to give a date on code. They just need to simply stop deleting and simply reply "yes, we are currently working on game mentioned, we think you are really going to enjoy the update".
Or hell, even if they posted "No, we are no longer coding for game mentioned at this time" would be 100 times better then how they behave now.

I think y'all are best to just ditch anything that looks like Stern's property. Definitely keep the *name* Stern, since that's the company in question, but do not stylize it in any way that looks similar to any logo they've used, and do not use any trademarked items from Stern themed games. Generic zombies, spaceships, wrestling images, etc are fine. The conversation is shifting to IP infringement/free speech, and away from the true problem - bad software!

Also, I think the whole "where's the code" isn't direct enough. "Code" can mean many things. People not familiar with the situation might assume it refers to QR codes, or cheat codes or something like that. Describe the problem exactly as it is - unfinished, unpolished, BUGGY software.

Stern games are BUGGY. Stern games are UNFINISHED. Those are the fact we need to promote. Of course not ALL stern games are unfinished and buggy, but at this point it's not worth delineating between good and bad. Fix 'em all so they're DONE already.

I'll admit, I am the mole.

I haven't seen the new shirt design, so I'm afraid I can't answer that. If someone could PM a link, that would be appreciated.

I knew it!

You wear far too many hats.

I can not believe that STERN has let the code get this bad

Here it is:

http://teespring.com/new-wheresthecode

Edit: pulled from another pinside post.

Thanks, yeah that doesn't use their logo or anything, that should be fine.

Just unbelieveable that they have over 6 programmers and the code is this bad.

It spoils if you leave it out too long.

Wait. Why?
I get that personally you may like stern machines; but why not be at odds with Stern?

They DO NOT contribute. They do not offer pinsiders anything but an inferior product (code wise). So why not piss them off?

Sorry; but unless they are sending you money in the forms of donations (which I do not see gary doing) - they need to lie in the bed they made.

They have 6 funking Software engineers... doing 3 projects a year; are they spending their days drinking beer and surfing web sites? Even a unmotivated engineer can do more code than this. Something WAY wrong at Stern... their answer? "my logo is being infringed"

I respect your leadership here, Robin... but Stern needs a stick inserted somewhere.