(Topic ID: 115665)

#wheresthecode

By flashinstinct

9 years ago


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  • 2,075 posts
  • 246 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Razorbak86
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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There are 2,075 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 42.
#551 9 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Too bad Stern does not have any serious competition. If JJP can crank out one game every 2 years, and no other real pinball makers besides boutiques so far, than Stern still has a stranglehold on the market.

I would say they do have serious competition. You can go buy a WOZ right now which is fully coded. You can go buy AMH right now and just a short wait >> also fully coded.

You can choose to go buy literally thousands of other great games that have been out for years and they are fully coded (well most of them ).

That IS competition for dollars. Educate people and maybe they will spend their money elsewhere.
Spend money elsewhere and maybe Stern will invest in coding to sell more games.

#552 9 years ago
Quoted from gamestencils:

This is goofy. If you don't want a stern don't buy one, if you have one you don't like, sell it. EVERYONE knows that code evolves over time and there's no guaranteed timeline. don't buy the bloody game until that update is released.
JJP is no better about 'finished' code, nobody else has even managed to finish a game aside from Spooky.

We all know to wait, its been said over and over.

NOW. How well a game sells dictates production, and code support.

How long, is long enough? Without any info or communication to customers.

696.gif696.gif

#553 9 years ago

"fully coded" - your moment of zen

#554 9 years ago

I love what ya'll are doing. Honestly, I just wish that they would open source the code once the games goes out of production. There are some really talented people in the community that could do some bad a$$ stuff to our games if they could adjust the code themselves.

#555 9 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I love what ya'll are doing. Honestly, I just wish that they would open source the code once the games goes out of production. There are some really talented people in the community that could do some bad a$$ stuff to our games if they could adjust the code themselves.

I agree 100%

Also boggles the mind that Stern goes to all the trouble of making ST, STLE and ST premium but then doesn't go full court press and make it into a super seller like AcDc because to me the only thing AcDc has over STLE is code.

ST could be the next SM or AcDc as far as big sellers if only Stern would finish the code, not just finish but make it great.

The fact that Stern made it 799 LEs shows that it had potential to be a huge seller.

#556 9 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I love what ya'll are doing. Honestly, I just wish that they would open source the code once the games goes out of production. There are some really talented people in the community that could do some bad a$$ stuff to our games if they could adjust the code themselves.

It would be amazing.

#557 9 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I agree 100%
Also boggles the mind that Stern goes to all the trouble of making ST, STLE and ST premium but then doesn't go full court press and make it into a super seller like AcDc because to me the only thing AcDc has over STLE is code.

ACDC is like it is only because Lyman is known to finish off code in his spare time for his own pride... however even for Lyman it takes 1.5 years after a game is released to complete the code. Unfortunately the last ST code update was only 10 days newer than the last ACDC update (10 months ago), so I get the frustration completely... Lyman is making Stern look better than they really are.

#558 9 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I love what ya'll are doing. Honestly, I just wish that they would open source the code once the games goes out of production. There are some really talented people in the community that could do some bad a$$ stuff to our games if they could adjust the code themselves.

It would be illegal to release the source code because Stern does not own the licenses involved.

#559 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It would be illegal to release the source code because Stern does not own the licenses involved.

This is actually untrue. The rules and the licensed IP could be separated and the Ip distributed as a compiled library with the rules in source form.

#560 9 years ago

it would be ok for me if :

Stern would release the pinball machines with a code revision, that includes all basic rules and is "finished" ( so there´s no dead end, all targets, inserts , modes are "done" ) !
They declare, that there will be NO Code updates except bug fixes and general improvements.

There will be Kickstarter projects for each machine, that will offer all customers the opportunity to get one ore more really awsome code updates .

So the programmer could be fully paid for additional work.
We could influence what will be programmed.

Needless to say that stern than has to reduce the initial price for the machines.

#561 9 years ago

Numbers Round up for the weekend.

Total Reach 1,178
The Zombie Horde image alone got 462 - 3 shared posts
Fire all Chase Lights - 450 - 3 shared posts
The hulk No Smash got 422 - 2 shared posts
The forgotten department got 317 - 1 shared posts
And so forth...

Most of these post I will dump on twitter throughout the week. AS well If you took a picture of your deleted post on facebook..please post it on the thread. I've started a collage of them... Will make a nice murale LOL.

I also found out the when you put the @ in front of the name..it get's posted to the individual's timeline.
@SternPinball would have increased a bit of exposure.. learning as we are going I guess.

Conclusion...the next posts that I put up this week...if everyone shares them...then we will get a lot more exposure.

I still intend to keep the facebook page active on a weekly basis. So if anyone as stuff to add as we go along just send me a PM.

#562 9 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I think you are over exaggerating. My whole point was that people are treating an unused insert as a major bug. It's poor designing but not necessarily "broken" code that interrupts the game. There are threads after threads about the broken code in ST. Yet, I have only heard about one bug that interferes with the game. While I am not an advanced player, I have played a ton of games on my ST and had no issues. My old Getaway is full of bugs - weird scoring, multiball on 1 lock, and the game often gets regular multiball mixed up with the wizard mode. I would love code improvements to ST but I don't think the code is at the point where you grab the torches and pitchforks. If the idea is not to preorder a Stern then good. Make sure the game is satisfactory before you buy it. Buying the game and then demanding updates does not make sense to me.

Not over exaggerating at all. Only saying that I bought TWD which is announced with 2 wizard modes. But those still do not work and that is wrong. Simple thing.

#564 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

This is actually untrue. The rules and the licensed IP could be separated and the Ip distributed as a compiled library with the rules in source form.

No licensee in the world is going to allow that to happen.

You would have to hack the software yourself, and let Stern turn a blind eye.

#565 9 years ago

Wow, some really strong opinions here from a lot of people, many that don't even seem to buy Stern machines. Publicly trashing a company is lame. Send them an e-mail with your opinions. Decide for yourself if you want to buy a game or not. Nobody has a "stranglehold" on "the industry"...it's a high-end toy, not a needed commodity. These antics won't speed up coding.

Stern is making some fun games. The code updates could be faster, agreed. If this bothers you, wait until games are "finished" until you buy. Of course everyone has a different perspective of "finished" which leads me to think they haven't played many games from the 90's or any era quite frankly. Is Williams Indiana Jones unfinished because there's no skill shot?

#566 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

This is actually untrue. The rules and the licensed IP could be separated and the Ip distributed as a compiled library with the rules in source form.

They could also expose an API for just the ruleset so we can only modified the scoring part. Take the pressure off them and let us get creative.

#567 9 years ago
Quoted from DrJoe:

Wow, some really strong opinions here from a lot of people, many that don't even seem to buy Stern machines. Publicly trashing a company is lame.

Strong...perhaps....lame...not quite...getting shut out of a company's facebook page for simply asking when a code update is coming up.... (granted some comments are nasty) but most of them are legitimate. Stern said an update was going to happen in fall 2014...that did not happen. And when they release a statement it's so vague that it could be interpreted in a million different ways.

"we are working on code...rest assured that we are working on this" no timeline, no proof nada....just words thrown in the air. All Stern would have to do is consult the programming team...set a date and then advertise that release date and meet the deadline. Instead they dig their heads in the sand and delete every post they are unhappy with instead of facing the questions...

#568 9 years ago

This guy goes all over social media and complains about stuff... I dont think it ever gets deleted.

For those that dont know, IT IS SATIRE

http://www.drewtoothpaste.com/

No-Shirt-No-Shoes.jpgNo-Shirt-No-Shoes.jpg

There-Was-Something-Else.jpgThere-Was-Something-Else.jpg

#569 9 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Strong...perhaps....lame...not quite...getting shut out of a company's facebook page for simply asking when a code update is coming up.... (granted some comments are nasty) but most of them are legitimate. Stern said an update was going to happen in fall 2014...that did not happen. And when they release a statement it's so vague that it could be interpreted in a million different ways.
"we are working on code...rest assured that we are working on this" no timeline, no proof nada....just words thrown in the air. All Stern would have to do is consult the programming team...set a date and then advertise that release date and meet the deadline. Instead they dig their heads in the sand and delete every post they are unhappy with instead of facing the questions...

There are plenty of ways to communicate to a company. Posts to their Facebook page makes them look bad in front of would-be customers potentially so it's no wonder they take them down. It's a marketing tool. I just don't personally agree with this method of communication and feel it hurts more than helps. There is a lot of negativity in this hobby lately. It seems like some folks would rather have a company like Stern go out of business, which is mind-boggling to me if you like pinball at all. The people that claim games are unfinished because they don't care for certain elements of the rules on a particular game would likely be impossible to please. Look at how people still complain about AC/DC, which perhaps has the most complex and interesting code of any pinball machine ever.

#570 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No licensee in the world is going to allow that to happen.
You would have to hack the software yourself, and let Stern turn a blind eye.

I disagree. As long as your not twiddling around with the ip and how it's used, they won't care. The licensor doesn't care that a shit to an orbit scores 50 points or 100 points for example. In a sense, there are already user configurations via the options menus. This will just widen what can be done. We started a discussion with stern about this a year ago and about us doing some of the code on it and they didn't express any licensing concerns.

Quoted from JimB:

They could also expose an API for just the ruleset so we can only modified the scoring part. Take the pressure off them and let us get creative.

Right. You could modify scoring, when modes start, how to enable modes etc.

There could also be some logic that once the code was changed, the machine was free play only.

-1
#571 9 years ago

To Flashinstinct.

That blurb at the bottom of your last picture post.
Where did that come from?

Did Stern honestly say they can not guarantee that they will finish or include advertised features.
Or was that just something you added?

If so. Is that not false advertising?

And also....

#572 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I disagree. As long as your not twiddling around with the ip and how it's used, they won't care. The licensor doesn't care that a shit to an orbit scores 50 points or 100 points for example. In a sense, there are already user configurations via the options menus. This will just widen what can be done. We started a discussion with stern about this a year ago and about us doing some of the code on it and they didn't express any licensing concerns.

The most Stern would ever do is to provide additional configuration options in their menu. There's just too much risk to them in allowing people to change software. While it could improve code, it could also result in worse rules affecting player perceptions, hardware damage Stern would have to support, etc.

It would be nice though, and someone with enough will can certainly figure out how to do it anyway (like Pinball Browser) but I just don't see it happening in a meaningful fashion from Stern... unless they adopt successful OSS strategies with a strong central maintainer that accepts community contributions and picks and chooses the best rule changes to incorporate. This is one way to alleviate the perpetual software backlog.

#573 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I disagree. As long as your not twiddling around with the ip and how it's used, they won't care. The licensor doesn't care that a shit to an orbit scores 50 points or 100 points for example.

OK, then call Stern and ask for the source code.

See if they are allowed to give it to you.

#574 9 years ago
Quoted from erak:

To Flashinstinct.
That blurb at the bottom of your last picture post.
Where did that come from?
Did Stern honestly say they can not guarantee that they will finish or include advertised features.
Or was that just something you added?
If so. Is that not false advertising?
And also....

Half satire , half truth. They obviously cannot guarantee as per ACDC cannon modes and they can't hold their delivery timelines for code.

#575 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No licensee in the world is going to allow that to happen.
You would have to hack the software yourself, and let Stern turn a blind eye.

Isn't Predator open source?
I heard that at the NW Pinball show 1.5 years ago

#576 9 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Isn't Predator open source?
I heard that at the NW Pinball show 1.5 years ago

I can't imagine 20th Century allowing their IP to be distributed open source, but if it is, I'd love a copy of the source code, please.

#577 9 years ago
Quoted from erak:

To Flashinstinct.
That blurb at the bottom of your last picture post.
Where did that come from?
Did Stern honestly say they can not guarantee that they will finish or include advertised features.
Or was that just something you added?
If so. Is that not false advertising?
And also....

Ask any STLE or premium owner their thoughts. They are missing some advertised features.

#578 9 years ago

Here is an email I dug up from Jody sent Jan 2014 afer I was banned from facebook for asking about xmen code after just purchasing a magneto LE.

I sent an email asking why was my comment deleated. And why was I banned from posting.
Here is the response...

Thanks for the email.  When we return from the holiday I will check with the Facebook admins.  We do not encourage discussions on code updates on our social media. The discussions can spiral out of control.  We have been manufacturing pinball games for almost three decades and have a pretty good idea on how to make and program them.  We do encourage anyone who wants to work in our programming department to apply with our team if they are qualified. Any questions or comments regarding code should be directed to the programming and game development departments.  As the manufacturer we are constantly working on improving and making sure our games are the best they can be. There are updates being worked on for our past three titles. We have no estimated date for when they will be complete.  I hope this helps. Have a great New Year. Please follow up with me late next week after I speak with the admins.

052410_rg_8BitTrashCan_02.jpg052410_rg_8BitTrashCan_02.jpg
Program and game developement department.

#579 9 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Here is an email I dug up from Jody sent Jan 2014 afer I was banned from facebook for asking about xmen code after just purchasing a magneto LE.
I sent an email asking why was my comment deleated. And why was I banned from posting.
Here is the response...
Thanks for the email.  When we return from the holiday I will check with the Facebook admins.  We do not encourage discussions on code updates on our social media. The discussions can spiral out of control.  We have been manufacturing pinball games for almost three decades and have a pretty good idea on how to make and program them.  We do encourage anyone who wants to work in our programming department to apply with our team if they are qualified. Any questions or comments regarding code should be directed to the programming and game development departments.  As the manufacturer we are constantly working on improving and making sure our games are the best they can be. There are updates being worked on for our past three titles. We have no estimated date for when they will be complete.  I hope this helps. Have a great New Year. Please follow up with me late next week after I speak with the admins.

That is awesome info. Wish you would have posted it when you received it.
I have sent emails direct to them that have gotten zero response.
What are the emails for the Programming and Game Development departments that they would like us to address? I can't seem to locate those.
I hope they hold to that and actually start responding to people.

#580 9 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Any questions or comments regarding code should be directed to the programming and game development departments.

I don't suppose he told you how to do this, did he?

#581 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I disagree. As long as your not twiddling around with the ip and how it's used, they won't care. The licensor doesn't care that a shit to an orbit scores 50 points or 100 points for example

A licensor would probably be displeased if everyone had to take a shit in the orbits.

And just quietly, I'd want more than 100 points for one of my monster turds.

rd.

#582 9 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I don't suppose he told you how to do this, did he?

Nope never ever heard back. And no other info.
My guess is it doesn't exist.
Or would go to a junk mail folder.

Par for the course.

14
#584 9 years ago

In all fairness, I think we need to give Lyman some props for coding great games like Iron Man, Tron, ACDC, Metallica.

#585 9 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

In all fairness, I think we need to give Lyman some props for coding great games like Iron Man, Tron, ACDC, Metallica.

Agreed.

#586 9 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

In all fairness, I think we need to give Lyman some props for coding great games like Iron Man, Tron, ACDC, Metallica.

Yup that's why I put the Tron, Lord of the Rings Posts

#587 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The licensor doesn't care that a shit to an orbit scores 50 points or 100 points for example.

Dear Markmon,

I am a licensor and I feel that my orbits are worth more than 100 points. Please stop smearing our orbits or I'll have to send you one of those legal stop it now thingy letters or something

Signed
Mr. License

#588 9 years ago

I'm thinking of getting T-shirts done so people can wear them at the next pinball shows.... would anyone be interested in that? That way it's somewhat of a silent / yet visually appealing way to give Stern a heads up?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wheresthecode-tshirts-profits-go-to-foundation#post-2221296

#589 9 years ago

Posted there as well but I'm in for one.

#590 9 years ago

Too bad we couldn't donate the funds to Lyman for going out of his way to find code

#591 9 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

Too bad we couldn't donate the funds to Lyman for going out of his way to find code

Not a bad idea. Maybe we could donate the funds to a charity of his choice in his name. That could help him out a bit.

#592 9 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Not a bad idea. Maybe we could donate the funds to a charity of his choice in his name. That could help him out a bit.

That is an awesome idea. But i doubt Gary would like that. Having one of his programmers decide where funds go from a bunch of guys that are trying to give Stern a message.

#593 9 years ago

I understand ''not being negative towards a company...more constructive ways to inquire about code (or lack of), but at the end of the day...I do believe this is a constructive way to get Stern's attention. This isn't something that just bubbled up, this has been following Stern for some time now. Will this stop me from buying NIB from Stern? Prolly not, I loved my ACDC NIB and will most likely do a TWD in 60 days. This type of thread in particular gives me hope though...that Stern just can't blatantly ignore the issue(s) anymore. Stern has just exploded over past few years & this isn't by chance. I think it's time for Stern to take these concerns a lot more seriously.....address what seems to be more and more infectious on these threads.

-2
#594 9 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

This is more like I test drove two cars that I liked but I chose the one that I knew drove over 40mph. The other one might one day have the ability to, but I didn't know if that will ever happen because the manufacturer doesn't answer any of my questions.

You make it sound like Stern sells games that don't function as a pinball game should. A car that can't drive over 40mph would be obvious. That is why you test drive them and not try to guess whether it can go the speeds you need. If a pin is missing key features you expect then that should be obvious as well. If a pin or a car cannot function as needed, then don't buy it. Using the car analogy again, this whole thread is about people buying a car based on what the salesman says and not from actually test driving the car.

#595 9 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

That is an awesome idea. But i doubt Gary would like that. Having one of his programmers decide where funds go from a bunch of guys that are trying to give Stern a message.

But if he's doing code updates on his own time, and not a part of his regular work schedule, I think it would be a nice donation.

#596 9 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

But if he's doing code updates on his own time, and not a part of his regular work schedule, I think it would be a nice donation.

yes...i agree but it might be a conflict of interest.

#597 9 years ago

Maybe we should just raise some funds through some stickers and then get him a award for "code master finishing what he started" or something.

I think something constructive that rewards the programmers and lets them know we appreciate them and isn't pissing on stern would be the best approach.

Shoot we could send out awards to stern based on games that have finished code with a few follow up titles in bronze medals. Almost finished code or something. Anyways the idea would be to nicely bridge them that people care about their code.

#598 9 years ago

No conflict. The next time he's talking at a show, someone just ask in the Q&A session - "What is your favorite charity." Then we donate to it and send him a receipt showing what happened. My team at work did this for me when a loved-one passed away. They knew my favorite charity is the Wounded Warriors Foundation so they took a collection, donated the money and sent me a letter saying what they did and how much was donated.

Or, we could just put it towards our own charity and send him a thank you note for all he does and include that as part of it.

More than one way to skin a cat that wouldn't get anyone in trouble but also show our appreciation towards what they do.

#599 9 years ago

the next time stern is at a show and doing a round of questions someone should ask ''where's the code?'' .

#600 9 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

You make it sound like Stern sells games that don't function as a pinball game should. A car that can't drive over 40mph would be obvious. That is why you test drive them and not try to guess whether it can go the speeds you need. If a pin is missing key features you expect then that should be obvious as well. If a pin or a car cannot function as needed, then don't buy it. Using the car analogy again, this whole thread is about people buying a car based on what the salesman says and not from actually test driving the car.

So you're test driving this car in December, come July you turn on the A/C and it doesn't work. There's a button for it, says right in front of you horde, I mean A/C but no A/C. You would be ok with that because that's something you should have figured out in Decemeber?

I would think most companies are held to a standard of providing what they are advertising. If the scoring is out of wack, or there aren't voiceovers from the actual show that's one thing, but completely missing modes which are present on the playfield is just silly. Ohhh you wanted 4 power windows, well here's 2 rears, the other 2 "are coming".

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