(Topic ID: 239685)

Major CPU Board Repair on Williams High Speed


By Dennis33

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 116 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by cjchand
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 29 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_4915 (resized).JPG
high speed test button procedure (resized).png
20161105-125521 (resized).jpg
IMG_4898 (resized).JPG
6dcf08bfaa4780ee0738b15755fe0e58ebb27a48 (resized).jpg
IMG_4889 (resized).JPG
IMG_4888 (resized).JPG
IMG_4887 (resized).JPG
IMG_4885 (resized).JPG
U51 (resized).png
IMG_4760 (resized).JPG
IMG_4757 (resized).JPG
IMG_4751 (resized).JPG
IMG_4688 (resized).JPG
20170312_125508 (resized).jpg
20170311_130238 (resized).jpg

There are 116 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 1 year ago

I finally took my stash of pinball machines out of "storage" after sitting in my other garage for five years. Now, in my new home, I have my United Supreme Bowler (System 3), High Speed (System 11 nothing), and two EM's - El Toro and Space Mission. None of them will be plugged in until I go over every board, solenoid, fuse, lamp socket, reel, power cord, whatever I need to do.

I've been following Vid's Bullet-proofing thread and replaced almost everything recommended in the threads on the System 3 bowler. I'm still waiting for a few more parts to complete that restoration. So in the meantime, I removed the boards from High Speed and I didn't notice the extent of the damage on the CPU/Driver board until it was out of the machine. I knew about the battery issue but then looked at the bottom left corner of the board. Oh Boy! I've read about this problem and was quite disappointed at what I saw. I'm sure someone can identify the cause of this issue and before I attack that I'm upgrading the TIP42's and TIP122's. I'll also replace the .4 ohm and 27 ohm resistors, all electrolytic caps and the battery pack with NVRAM. Finally, I'll start replacing many of the lamps with LED's.

I'll need to start ordering parts for this board, so I have a few questions.

- Can I replace the TIP122's with TIP122G that I have?
- Should I replace all of the resistor network packs or just the burnt ones?
- What would cause the damage at SW2?
- While I have my soldering iron HOT, is there anything else that should be replaced on that board?
- Will anyone say "Oh! It's not that bad."?

Thanks!

IMG_4653 (resized).JPGIMG_4655 (resized).JPGIMG_4656 (resized).JPG
#2 1 year ago

The board is in worse shape than you may realize. There is quite a bit of battery corrosion above, below and both sides of the battery holder location.

2019-03-31 18_22_24-system 11 battery damaged - Paint (resized).png

#3 1 year ago

I started cleaning up the corrosion around that area with the vinegar/water/alcohol treatment. I don't want to get too aggressive on the cleanup and I hope this will put the corrosion "in check" for awhile. I started pulling the burnt components out of the rest of the board while waiting for replacement parts to arrive.

I realize this will be a long term project but it's worth the time to get my HS working again.

I'll update with pictures as this adventure continues.

Thanks for the response, PinballManiac40!

#4 1 year ago

I'm afraid that just scrubbing the board with vinegar is not going to cut it. You will have to replace the damaged parts and really get deeper into that board to get it cleaned up. Battery damage is like cancer for boards.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage

#5 1 year ago

I've read that many of the components to the left of the battery in the picture can be replaced with only three parts. That may limit the amount of work to be done there. The IC's to the right and below, and the resistor packs above are a different story.

Here's a picture of the back of the board in that area. It looks much better than the component side!

IMG_4676 (resized).JPG

#6 1 year ago

Yea, but look at all those fine traces, all that black is corrosion, and will eventually eat throw.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

I started cleaning up the corrosion around that area with the vinegar/water/alcohol treatment. I don't want to get too aggressive on the cleanup and I hope this will put the corrosion "in check" for awhile

That's like using a squirt gun to put out a house fire. It's not going to do very much.

#8 1 year ago

I guess it's time to bite the bullet and do the right thing from the start which I was hoping to do anyway. I just wanted to do something right away to at least slow down the progress of corrosion while I developed a plan. I've already rebuilt the power supply, sound board and aux board. This board will take a lot more time to fix. Does anyone have an idea about the blown TIP122's on the board?

Thanks again for your input!

#9 1 year ago

Should work there a 5 amp 100 volt npn transister

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

I guess it's time to bite the bullet and do the right thing from the start which I was hoping to do anyway. I just wanted to do something right away to at least slow down the progress of corrosion while I developed a plan. I've already rebuilt the power supply, sound board and aux board. This board will take a lot more time to fix. Does anyone have an idea about the blown TIP122's on the board?
Thanks again for your input!

Tip122g will be fine. The G suffix means lead free.

I would suggest you download Leon's test ROM and install it and boot the board. You can probe away on the ribbon cable connectors. Those are for sound and display data. Most of those small traces come from the associated PIA's.

The test ROM will also let you test all of the related components driving those transistors.

If you can't burn the ROM. Lmk. I'll burn one for you.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

- What would cause the damage at SW2?

Just charred looking from the magic smoke that erupted from your solenoid drivers!

#12 1 year ago

I'll look into Leon's test ROM when I am able to put power to the board. Thanks Moto_bone!

So, what caused Q15 and Q7 to give up their magic smoke???

#13 1 year ago

It actually looks more like Q11 and Q15- which would make sense as I believe that Q11 is pre-driver for q15. Prolly q15 locked on and smoked and took q11 down with it. Look at your manual to see what Q15 tip is supposed to be driving.

And this is based solely on the burns looking like they went through to the back of the board from excess heat on these two components. Hard to tell from pictures sometimes.

#14 1 year ago

So it looks like Q15 drives solenoid 13 (AL-23-800-01), which is the Ramp Gates on the High Speed. I guess it's time to pull the glass and get under the playfield. Anyone have any tips for testing the solenoid without any power on the machine.

Thanks Wmsfan!

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

So it looks like Q15 drives solenoid 13 (AL-23-800-01), which is the Ramp Gates on the High Speed. I guess it's time to pull the glass and get under the playfield. Anyone have any tips for testing the solenoid without any power on the machine.
Thanks Wmsfan!

Unless the coil is cooked, it's probably fine. I would replace the diode on that coil though. Always good practice to replace them when doing driver repair.

-1
#16 1 year ago

I'd just buy the Rottendog replacement board. Much easier and cheaper in the long run.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from GetTheJackpot:

I'd just buy the Rottendog replacement board. Much easier and cheaper in the long run.

Then what would I do with my solder iron, solder, solder wick, box of parts and all my free time?

Thanks Moto_bone I'll start by replacing the diode. Would it be wise to replace all the diodes under the playfield?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

Then what would I do with my solder iron, solder, solder wick, box of parts and all my free time?
Thanks Moto_bone I'll start by replacing the diode. Would it be wise to replace all the diodes under the playfield?

No, only on circuits that have fried the transistors.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from GetTheJackpot:

I'd just buy the Rottendog replacement board. Much easier and cheaper in the long run.

He's got the original that's in ok shape. A good cleanup and repair isn't going to cost him any money if he does it himself.

Besides, it's very fulfilling to bring a board back from the dead.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Moto_bone:

He's got the original that's in ok shape. A good cleanup and repair isn't going to cost him any money if he does it himself.
Besides, it's very fulfilling to bring a board back from the dead.

Also, there's a large community on this site that has *very* extensive experience and knowledge with the stock Sys11 boards. If/when the Rottendog stuff has issues, it's less likely that experts can be found to help out. Just my $0.02.

#21 1 year ago

While replacing caps in the board I saw this broken "B". I can't find a "B" in my Bill of Materials list in the System 11 schematic. Anyone know the replacement part?

IMG_20190405_155920 (resized).jpg
#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

Then what would I do with my solder iron, solder, solder wick, box of parts and all my free time?

Hahaha, that's the spirit! A big part of my enjoyment in the hobby is doing my own repairs. You're in good hands here, I'm sure you'll have this sorted out soon.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

While replacing caps in the board I saw this broken "B". I can't find a "B" in my Bill of Materials list in the System 11 schematic. Anyone know the replacement part?
[quoted image]

I took out my 8X magnifier and looked again at the schematic and found the "B" (BYPASS). It's a .01MFD capacitor.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

Then what would I do with my solder iron, solder, solder wick, box of parts and all my free time?
Thanks Moto_bone I'll start by replacing the diode. Would it be wise to replace all the diodes under the playfield?

In your free time , take a shot it. I will be doing the same to a cpu from Cyclone.

#25 1 year ago

Worse case scenario is that you can't get it up and running and you have to buy a replacement. What you learn in troubleshooting and repair is worth it. as well as the satisfaction of fixing it yourself.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from Wmsfan:

Worse case scenario is that you can't get it up and running and you have to buy a replacement. What you learn in troubleshooting and repair is worth it. as well as the satisfaction of fixing it yourself.

Yup, that's my plan. Before this project I rebuilt the boards on my United Supreme shuffle bowler which hasn't been plugged in for over 10 years. I don't think it was working very well at that time although it was working before that in the 1990's. My last part arrived today (the Special Solenoid Saver) and I'll put it in next week then fire it up (that's a poor choice of words).

Although I've done some small projects over the years, this is the most I've soldered since I made a Heathkit serial printer in the 70's.

This High Speed board is coming along nicely. I've been working on other parts of the board, replacing parts that were recommended in various posts. The last thing I'll do is replace the "reset" section then work on the battery leakage problem.

Thanks again to everyone for their comments and suggestions. I'll keep posting pics of my progress.

IMG_4680 (resized).JPGIMG_4681 (resized).JPG
#27 1 year ago

Today I pulled the glass off the High Speed and looked under the playfield. I went to Solenoid 13 which controls the Ramp Gate and took out the diode to test which turned out to be open. So I'll put in a new one next week while I'm waiting for some parts.

While looking at the playfield I found a 2.2k mfd, 250V cap hanging onto the right flipper with one leg disconnected. I don't know if it was ever connected or it fell off at one time. It's the big yellow one in the first picture. Does it belong there? There isn't one on the other flippers.

Also, since I will be putting in as many LED's as I can, should I just remove all of the 330 ohm resistors?

IMG_4682 (resized).JPGIMG_4683 (resized).JPG
#28 1 year ago

I don't have that capacitor on my High Speed.

Yes... When I replaced my incandescents with LEDs, if you don't remove those 330 ohm resistors the LEDs will be on dimly all the time and then flash bright on demand. When you remove them they will be of and then flash. I just cut mine off with snips. Thru the whole machine there were like 8 of them, plus or minus.

#29 1 year ago

I got a High Speed that I want to add LEDs to. How can I tell which is the 330 ohm resistor that needs to be snipped off? Sorry to hijack!

#30 1 year ago

When you replace a flash bulb (or a bank of them) look under the playfield for a small circuit board. There will be two brown bar resistors on it. Just make sure you identify the 330 one... Should be clearly labeled. It's the smaller of the two.

You can either unsolder the resistor or do what I did and clip them close to the board.

There were a total of 6 across the middle of the playfield, and one up in the header behind the backglass.

Don't remove though until you replace the lights with LEDs otherwise your incandescent bulbs won't flash.

2074870E-0700-421F-8542-53D2533E1068 (resized).jpeg63816A27-2B22-43A0-A5FE-63BBD188C9ED (resized).jpeg90F2113D-7652-484B-AB5A-721B1A6DCB43 (resized).jpeg
#31 1 year ago

Here is one such board I repaired that was still wet when the battery holder was removed. So it is not just replacing parts, the traces also need attention, which TerryB's guide also is mentioned.
20170311_130238 (resized).jpg20170312_125508 (resized).jpg

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

.
While looking at the playfield I found a 2.2k mfd, 250V cap hanging onto the right flipper with one leg disconnected. I don't know if it was ever connected or it fell off at one time. It's the big yellow one in the first picture. Does it belong there? There isn't one on the other flippers.

You have to mismatched flipper coils there. The one on the left is a serial wound coil, which is what is stock to the machine. The one on the right is a parallel wound coil, which does use that capacitor that’s hanging off of it. The capacitor helps prevent arcing, which keeps the contacts of the flipper buttons and the end of stroke switch from pitting as quickly. So, you’ll want to make sure you get that put back correctly.

Based on the coloring ( there is a color code for flipper strength which is mentioned in the link at the end of this post ), it looks like you might be two levels weaker on that flipper coil than it should be.

Nothing to worry about, except possibly for one thing. I can’t find what that part number is for the coil on the right, but I suspect it’s not the right strength of coil.

Vid’s flipper replacement guide, he goes into great detail about the purpose and writing of that cap as well as which parallel wound coil is equivalent to the same serial wound part. More on equivalents and other bits here: https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

#33 1 year ago

Just my two cents worth on the flash bulb heater resistors.

I only clip one leg and bend the resistor down a little away from the board. This way if you ever sell the game and the recipient wants to go back to incandescent flashers, all they have to do is just resolder that leg.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from Moto_bone:

Just my two cents worth on the flash bulb heater resistors.
I only clip one leg and bend the resistor down a little away from the board. This way if you ever sell the game and the recipient wants to go back to incandescent flashers, all they have to do is just resolder that leg.

I thought of doing this as well, but I didn't want a loose wire hanging around in the area of those boards making unwanted connections. I clipped close to the board since my resistors had unusually long leads on them. I save those kind of pieces so I could put them back in if I wanted.

That being said, I plan on keeping this unit.

#35 1 year ago

Go on youtube and look up the channel arcadeuk. I've seen that guy repair stuff worse than that. Watch some of his repair videos and you'll really get an idea what you need to do.

#36 1 year ago

Are these resistors in the EM machines? Would LED's work properly in one?

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

Are these resistors in the EM machines? Would LED's work properly in one?

No heater resistors in EM's- they don't use flashers.

LEDs are fine in EM's. Just kinda odd looking imo lol

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from Moto_bone:

No heater resistors in EM's- they don't use flashers.
LEDs are fine in EM's. Just kinda odd looking imo lol

Maybe I'll go with the warm white LED's.

Thanks

#39 1 year ago

Thanks @cjchand!

So should I replace the right flipper coil, or replace the cap. I never had a problem with that flipper when the machine was working.

Here's a better picture of the coil.

IMG_4688 (resized).JPG
#40 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

Thanks @cjchand!
So should I replace the right flipper coil, or replace the cap. I never had a problem with that flipper when the machine was working.
Here's a better picture of the coil.
[quoted image]

Oh! Seems the color coding isn’t relevant in this case. That part number (SFL-23/600...) is indeed the right part.

I read differing opinions on whether the cap is useful for serial wound coils (which this one is). It won’t hurt if it’s wired in, but it is definitely not needed.

So, like my wife does, feel free to ignore my “wisdom”

1 week later
#41 1 year ago

So, I finally finished bulletproofing as much as I can for now and put the boards back in the HS. I haven't cleaned up the battery problem yet and I wanted to see if any progress has been made in getting the machine working.

When I power it up, there's the click at the coin door, then to ball gets ejected. There is no sound at all. Once the ball is in play, none of the flippers work, most of the scoring works. Pop bumpers don't work but the outhole and hideout ejectors work. I can't get into diagnostics on the coin door. If I press the CPU button on the MPU the LED shows 0 then 8. At one time it went from 0 to 5 to 8.

Links to videos...

Any suggestion?

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

So, I finally finished bulletproofing as much as I can for now and put the boards back in the HS. I haven't cleaned up the battery problem yet and I wanted to see if any progress has been made in getting the machine working.
When I power it up, there's the click at the coin door, then to ball gets ejected. There is no sound at all. Once the ball is in play, none of the flippers work, most of the scoring works. Pop bumpers don't work but the outhole and hideout ejectors work. I can't get into diagnostics on the coin door. If I press the CPU button on the MPU the LED shows 0 then 8. At one time it went from 0 to 5 to 8.
Links to videos...

Any suggestion?

Yep.

Get Leon's test ROM and start their.

#43 1 year ago

Thanks moto_bone. I forgot about that from your earlier post. I'll start looking into it. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced EPROM programmer?

Going now to look at Leon's test procedures to see what else will be needed.

Thanks again,

Dennis

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

Thanks moto_bone. I forgot about that from your earlier post. I'll start looking into it. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced EPROM programmer?
Going now to look at Leon's test procedures to see what else will be needed.
Thanks again,
Dennis

I can send you a test ROM. Unless you are really wanting to buy a programmer.

A GQ4X and an eraser from Amazon will be perfect.

#45 1 year ago

moto_bone - I see that the ROM's can be purchased online but I want to make sure I get the correct one. Although it would be interesting to have a burner, I really don't have a need to own one. Can I PM you?

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from Dennis33:

moto_bone - I see that the ROM's can be purchased online but I want to make sure I get the correct one. Although it would be interesting to have a burner, I really don't have a need to own one. Can I PM you?

Send me a PM!

#47 1 year ago

Today I started to repair the battery leakage problem. I'll work on the reset section when I have all the replacement parts on hand. Then I'll get under the 6821's whenever I find replacements. I checked the conductivity along every tiny trace and it looks great.

If anyone has any reservations about doing this, it's quite easy, just get some fine sandpaper and go at it.

Is there any other testing I can do on the board with a DMM and logic probe while I'm waiting for a test ROM to arrive.

Got to look for my wife's clear nail polish now to coat the exposed traces.

IMG_4751 (resized).JPG
#49 1 year ago

Thanks dumbass,

This is what I'm going to do. I remember seeing it somewhere. It's probably on one of the 2+ dozen pinball related tabs on my browser. Now I don't have to look for it.

#50 1 year ago

I'm working my way over to the RESET circuit. I ran out of Superwick, otherwise I would have finished with the cleaning process.

At what time should I put a protective coating (clear nail polish) on the board? I assume before putting the components back, but do I stay away from the "thru-holes"?

IMG_4757 (resized).JPG
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Midlothian, VA
$ 29.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 15.75
Cabinet Parts
Tilted Pinball
$ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 164.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
There are 116 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside